- Best answers
Since this thread is supposed to be about more than this issue, what do people think of the ideas in my first two paragraphs about making arrows and cutting weapons much less effective against mail (and giving axes some blunt damage in addition to cutting)?RoBo_CoP said:When we hung up on these the hitbox for a pole-arm, we're missing many much more important issues. If other changes are made to the game that make two-handed weapons even slightly more viable, I'd like for pole-arms to be a good option over something else. Making the 'realistic' changes to them would keep them unused in that context, the primary thing I'm arguing against.
Well longer polearms like glaives have the advantage of range over even great swords, so they have some use, but for two handed axes......shouldn't we look for improvements that give them realistic advantages rather than protect factors that are apparently insufficient to make them viable? Such as making their swings shorter range and quicker, rather than swinging axes as far as they can go from the body, so that they don't have the same potential to miss? Or maybe make archery less deadly, at least against armour? The more I read about the performance of armour, even padded garments, the more I am convinced that arrows are too effective in M&B. Mail armour should stop most shots and those that beat it would usually be stopped by the padding underneath. Of course there needs either to be very precise hitboxes that allow all uncovered (by mail) areas to still receive significant damage or, as with the current system, abstract armour values that reflect the areas such as lower arms, legs and faces that are unprotected on a helmet and hauberk wearing soldier, so that mailed warriors aren't completely invulnerable. Still, as it stands, a decent bow and arrows can drain more than half the health of a mailed warrior in Warband via a chest shot, which seems wrong to me. It may be that such a nerf to archery would worry some players who want to see their contribution to the killing of well armoured foes measured; perhaps damage points could be kept tally of or else every kill they contribute to even minutely could get a quarter of a kill point.
In the same vein, mail should be a lot better than it already is against cutting damage so that swords aren't so effective- being chopped/sliced at with a sword won't do serious damage if you are in mail with a padded garment underneath, no matter how big the sword is, so this should be reflected in game. Then axes could be given a blunt damage value in addition to their cutting damage, so that they would have a clear advantage over swords against metal armoured parts of the body.
The AI is primary concern then. They completely lack ability to position themselves optimally, why would pole-arm hit-boxes be the thing that glares out at you? I assume the sight of two armies pressing and gently poking each other with spears nSecondly, the issue is an annoyance for singleplayer too
macesclubs only rustles my jimmies?
As I said it isn't the only glaring issue, and yes the face to face poking and whiffing ruins it more for me, but I think Bannerlord has improved AI range judgement. The brief looter fight clip suggests this to me, as does what the devs said about the AI trying to surround the player. I don't think face hugging AI will be such an issue in Bannerlord. Still, the issue will occur occasionally as it does with real players; someone will move in an unexpected way, the polearm swing is too far and the haft hits, so it is worth addressing.
If there is only so much a small dev team can work on, there are plenty of other things I'd prefer they work on.Thirdly, not changing something that is obviously wrong
Fair enough, but I don't think this would be a problem. The team is quite large nowadays, and I don't think making the actual change would take that much doing. What might stop them doing it is them disagreeing that it is actually unrealistic or a gameplay problem in the first place, or if they think it will necessitate changes to the way long axes and bladed polearms are swung that they don't think can be resolved easily/quickly/satisfactorily.