Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.

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Fietta

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Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Shamefully, it seems like you listened to around 10 seconds of that video. He says 'I have many ways to change the M&B combat. If anyone is working on M&B then contact me about how to make the combat better' He doesn't need to give examples to the public, but he seems to have a good idea.
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: He said contact me taleworlds to talk about how to improve it  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
I don't see how that's relevant, the guy linked the video as though it somehow proved to the dozens of people arguing with him that he was right, which it didn't at all. Which is why I'm asking him what the issues are because the video didn't outline them.

The video is not helpful for TW at all because there is nothing in it that benefits them at all, why contact another guy that's going to tell them that it's unrealistic and they need to make it more so, that's evidently not what TW want to do in their combat and I like it unrealistic, it wouldn't be as fun it they tried to make it more like real life.
:facepalm: Well, it looks like he knows a lot about sword mechanics from his other videos and that GIANT ASS WALL OF SWORDS in the background. Just because he said 'Contact me and i'll tell you on how to improve it', it benefits taleworlds because he obviously knows what he's talking about. No detail needing to be given over a video probably directed to taleworlds anyways, even if it's not directed, he only wants to talk about it to taleworlds obviously. All that guy said was, 'Get this guy TW, he'll help you with the combat' and you're like bombarding him with **** because he linked a video. Also, read what I typed, don't make **** and say 'how is this relevant' when you've clearly been replying with the same **** I have about the video. Kappa.  :facepalm:

Maybe you should watch his 200 other videos about swords, sure looks like he has a great idea.
 

Gibby Jr

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trot888 said:
:facepalm: Well, it looks like he knows a lot about sword mechanics from his other videos and that GIANT ASS WALL OF SWORDS in the background. Just because he said 'Contact me and i'll tell you on how to improve it', it benefits taleworlds because he obviously knows what he's talking about. No detail needing to be given over a video probably directed to taleworlds anyways, even if it's not directed, he only wants to talk about it to taleworlds obviously. All that guy said was, 'Get this guy TW, he'll help you with the combat' and you're like bombarding him with **** because he linked a video.  :facepalm:
And you think TW didn't do research themselves into sword fighting to see what they could implement and what they couldn't? Lol, anyway, hardly 'bombarding him with ****' because if you read my initial reply all I said was that the video didn't tell me anything so I asked him what his issues with the combat actually were. If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him, so I don't see any reason to be super nice to him when he's clearly got no regard for the opinions of others, and I simply wanted to know what his actually are.
 

Fietta

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Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
:facepalm: Well, it looks like he knows a lot about sword mechanics from his other videos and that GIANT ASS WALL OF SWORDS in the background. Just because he said 'Contact me and i'll tell you on how to improve it', it benefits taleworlds because he obviously knows what he's talking about. No detail needing to be given over a video probably directed to taleworlds anyways, even if it's not directed, he only wants to talk about it to taleworlds obviously. All that guy said was, 'Get this guy TW, he'll help you with the combat' and you're like bombarding him with **** because he linked a video.  :facepalm:
And you think TW didn't do research themselves into sword fighting to see what they could implement and what they couldn't? Lol, anyway, hardly 'bombarding him with ****' because if you read my initial reply all I said was that the video didn't tell me anything so I asked him what his issues with the combat actually were. If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him, so I don't see any reason to be super nice to him when he's clearly got no regard for the opinions of others, and I simply wanted to know what his actually are.
Yeah, I completely understand. 'If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him'. Do I have to repeat this again. It's a link to a video in which he said 'contact this guy' there's no harm with that, you literally just tried to start another banter thread with that guy over linking a decent video. Sure, taleworlds most likely have, but more help the better. You were about to start an argument by replying to a video with

'In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?'

It's a video dammit!  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:

Gibby Jr said:
This thread is for arguing :grin: Although Fietta's taken it a little off topic it's still loosely relevant.
Yes, I'm going completely off-topic. I'll now start talking about swords and sandals gladiator combat.
 

Gibby Jr

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trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
:facepalm: Well, it looks like he knows a lot about sword mechanics from his other videos and that GIANT ASS WALL OF SWORDS in the background. Just because he said 'Contact me and i'll tell you on how to improve it', it benefits taleworlds because he obviously knows what he's talking about. No detail needing to be given over a video probably directed to taleworlds anyways, even if it's not directed, he only wants to talk about it to taleworlds obviously. All that guy said was, 'Get this guy TW, he'll help you with the combat' and you're like bombarding him with **** because he linked a video.  :facepalm:
And you think TW didn't do research themselves into sword fighting to see what they could implement and what they couldn't? Lol, anyway, hardly 'bombarding him with ****' because if you read my initial reply all I said was that the video didn't tell me anything so I asked him what his issues with the combat actually were. If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him, so I don't see any reason to be super nice to him when he's clearly got no regard for the opinions of others, and I simply wanted to know what his actually are.
Yeah, I completely understand. 'If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him'. Do I have to repeat this again. It's a link to a video in which he said 'contact this guy' there's no harm with that, you literally just tried to start another banter thread with that guy over linking a decent video. Sure, taleworlds most likely have, but more help the better. You were about to start an argument by replying to a video with

'In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?'

It's a video dammit!  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:
I was trying to start a discussion with him about combat by asking him what his opinions on changing the combat were. Don't know if you knew this but this thread is for discussing combat.

And seriously, go back to like page 11 or something and look at his replies, he's aggressive and calls everyone 'tryhards' when they have a good argument, I'm asking his opinion because I've read these other pages and I know he thinks he has the perfect combat in mind so I want to know what he thinks that is.
 

Fietta

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Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
:facepalm: Well, it looks like he knows a lot about sword mechanics from his other videos and that GIANT ASS WALL OF SWORDS in the background. Just because he said 'Contact me and i'll tell you on how to improve it', it benefits taleworlds because he obviously knows what he's talking about. No detail needing to be given over a video probably directed to taleworlds anyways, even if it's not directed, he only wants to talk about it to taleworlds obviously. All that guy said was, 'Get this guy TW, he'll help you with the combat' and you're like bombarding him with **** because he linked a video.  :facepalm:
And you think TW didn't do research themselves into sword fighting to see what they could implement and what they couldn't? Lol, anyway, hardly 'bombarding him with ****' because if you read my initial reply all I said was that the video didn't tell me anything so I asked him what his issues with the combat actually were. If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him, so I don't see any reason to be super nice to him when he's clearly got no regard for the opinions of others, and I simply wanted to know what his actually are.
Yeah, I completely understand. 'If you read the prior pages you can see that he's reply in an aggressive and ultimately uninformed fashion to everyone that has a different opinion to him'. Do I have to repeat this again. It's a link to a video in which he said 'contact this guy' there's no harm with that, you literally just tried to start another banter thread with that guy over linking a decent video. Sure, taleworlds most likely have, but more help the better. You were about to start an argument by replying to a video with

'In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?'

It's a video dammit!  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:
I was trying to start a discussion with him about combat by asking him what his opinions on changing the combat were. Don't know if you knew this but this thread is for discussing combat.
Kappa. That video is about combat. Maybe it's because my second language is English, or it's because I'm deaf. Maybe that video was just about him talking about his life problems and banter over a taleworlds thread. Maybe, just maybe. Also,

'And seriously, go back to like page 11 or something and look at his replies, he's aggressive and calls everyone 'tryhards' when they have a good argument, I'm asking his opinion because I've read these other pages and I know he thinks he has the perfect combat in mind so I want to know what he thinks that is.'

You're just feeding the troll if that's the case. Leave trolls to wonder, they'll get bored, just give opinions on what you think.

Kappa, kthxbai.

Shemaforash said:
eshut the fuy kup
This is a discussion thread.

Silvernj said:
You're ridiculous, guys
This is a discussion thread.

I get curios over troll feeding. I also like to join in with some arguements some times, I get lonely on this taleworlds forum.
 

Partizan_Rusi

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Gibby Jr said:
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
Matt still knows more than any of you about combat, maybe he thinks M&B need new combat system too :] Who knows, go ask him.

Gibby Jr said:
Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Try to read this thread at least, there is also images, then move to second thread.
Shemaforash said:
eshut the fuy kup
gtfo dumb **** :lol:, I hope door will hit on your way out :]
 

Gibby Jr

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Partizan_Rusi said:
Gibby Jr said:
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
Matt still knows more than any of you about combat, maybe he thinks M&B need new combat system too :] Who knows, go ask him.
I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.

Gibby Jr said:
Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
I've read all of the pages on this thread, however all you've said so far is "the combat is clunky and unrealistic", what I want to know is, how do you want to fix this? Remove feinting? Slower swings? You haven't stated how you would solve this issue yet.
 

Fietta

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'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :razz:
 

Partizan_Rusi

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Gibby Jr said:
I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does.
Any developer can explain him engine and combat mechanics and in about hour-two he will have greater understanding than any veteran, its not the problem. One problem is that TW don't want to change combat, to let it evolve.

Gibby Jr said:
I've read all of the pages on this thread, however all you've said so far is "the combat is clunky and unrealistic", what I want to know is, how do you want to fix this? Remove feinting? Slower swings? You haven't stated how you would solve this issue yet.
Orly ? Here is just most simple and obvious change to hitboxes(and most needed) - http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,337148.msg8009150.html#msg8009150
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,337148.msg8008474.html#msg8008474

What do fanboys post on this ?
Almost no one would use axes if their hit boxes are changed like that.
Pffft  :lol:
 

Guaccmoleboy

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You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner? And don't be so prejudiced towards the devs either, bring up some concrete and well defended points about changing the combat system. Yeah, some people here did post some stupid stuff, but be the bigger man instead of reverting to your immature insults.

trot888 said:
Kappa. That video is about combat. Maybe it's because my second language is English, or it's because I'm deaf.
What's your first language, Cockney?  :lol:
 

Gibby Jr

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trot888 said:
'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :razz:
You definitely cannot understand the combat of Warband in 30 minutes, someone can say to you "Left click is attack, right click is block, E is kick, you can chamber attacks by attacking into their swing, you can feint by cancelling your swing with right click, you don't need to do directional blocking when you have a shield, you can swing faster by looking down and getting the right angle, there is a speed modifier on your attacks so if you are mounted and moving fast you do much more damage, different classes have different stats as do the different factions - infantry are faster than archers and cavalry and they do more damage however the extent of their damage boost varies from faction to faction, headshots with bows do more damage and usually one hit, you can couch your lance to do a lot of extra damage and if you are moving fast it is usually a one hit, different weapons have different speeds as well as different damage values and different reach - a military cleaver is shorter and slower than a regular sword but it has a lot of extra damage."

I've probably forgot a lot of things because these are just off the top of my head, but these are all basic things that while somebody can just tell you them, that doesn't mean you understand how to do them or when you should use them. You can only truly understand a mechanic when you yourself can do it and you know the different scenarios in which you should use it as well as when you shouldn't. You usually learn when to use it by using it at the wrong time and dying, then you know not to use it in that situation, and after many hundreds of hours you understand the pros and cons of a complicated mechanic and when and when not to use it.
 

Fietta

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Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :razz:
You definitely cannot understand the combat of Warband in 30 minutes, someone can say to you "Left click is attack, right click is block, E is kick, you can chamber attacks by attacking into their swing, you can feint by cancelling your swing with right click, you don't need to do directional blocking when you have a shield, you can swing faster by looking down and getting the right angle, there is a speed modifier on your attacks so if you are mounted and moving fast you do much more damage, different classes have different stats as do the different factions - infantry are faster than archers and cavalry and they do more damage however the extent of their damage boost varies from faction to faction, headshots with bows do more damage and usually one hit, you can couch your lance to do a lot of extra damage and if you are moving fast it is usually a one hit, different weapons have different speeds as well as different damage values and different reach - a military cleaver is shorter and slower than a regular sword but it has a lot of extra damage."

I've probably forgot a lot of things because these are just off the top of my head, but these are all basic things that while somebody can just tell you them, that doesn't mean you understand how to do them or when you should use them. You can only truly understand a mechanic when you yourself can do it and you know the different scenarios in which you should use it as well as when you shouldn't. You usually learn when to use it by using it at the wrong time and dying, then you know not to use it in that situation, and after many hundreds of hours you understand the pros and cons of a complicated mechanic and when and when not to use it.
You as a person may not have the 'skill' to do these mechanics, duel anyone, it then shows. How do you know if this man isn't someone who's played since 2011 and is famous but we don't know? Kappa.
 

Partizan_Rusi

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Guaccmoleboy said:
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:
 

Guaccmoleboy

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Partizan_Rusi said:
Guaccmoleboy said:
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:
Why not explain how their posts are so "invalid"? Because I dont see it  :ohdear:
 

PepperKP

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Guaccmoleboy said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Guaccmoleboy said:
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:
Why not explain how their posts are so "invalid"? Because I dont see it  :ohdear:
because he can't
 

Vendigr

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Partizan_Rusi said:
It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are.
Not trying to flood you with my consciousness, but

Partizan_Rusi said:
Matt still knows more than any of you about combat, maybe he thinks M&B need new combat system too :] Who knows, go ask him.
Don't think he would -- the first thing he says in that video you linked is "I get asked a lot of the time about which computer games have good combat systems. I am not qualified to answer that unfortunately... However the one game I do play fairly regularly is Mount&Blade Warband", apparently because "it has fundamental similarities to real fighting." And I think that is pretty interesting to hear coming from a guy who studies historical combat, but that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about what makes a good combat system in a video game, and he says up-front he knows basically nothing about that (but then offers to help design one, lol). 

IMO hand to hand combat in video games is never going to be that "realistic" until you can control your character's movements directly with your brain... until then, to be both "good" and "realistic" we are gonna have to settle for an abstraction of real combat instead. For example, having a larger hitbox for the blade of a 2h axe is a simplification of adjusting your grip in real life. Just guessing, but I think they were actually planning to have better adjustable grips at first (which is why you can hit X to change it slightly on certain axes) but it wasn't a good fit with the current engine so they went for the easier fix. Definitely agree with you it looks bad and there are much better ways to do it, but if I was working on MB I would rather have a finished game than a highly sophisticated custom-built axe gripping engine.
 
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