Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.

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I found it offensive as you are calling me a casual and presuming I don't understand the mechanics. :smile:
To my mind a competitive online player is just as likely to want to learn the mechanics and thus find out about them as a casual online player who wants to be good is, that's why I see it as a bad comparison.
Or do you mean casual is a SP player and non-casual is a MP player ?

Edit:
Either way, getting rid of silly animations or smoothing them down or modifying them (say with physics by weight of item/strength, longer you hold/feint/do weird stuff the slower the animation/the attack gets and does less damage, cause doing that stuff would be physically tiring) wouldn't pose much of a change to the core mechanics.
 

Partizan_Rusi

Squire
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Alene said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
... hitting everywhere it touches (almost unchanged from Warband). So there is no point to change grip at all because you are hitting everywhere for full damage ...
Like this?
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.

Scarf Ace said:
Dryykon said:
Maybe you should. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wCp6wH0Iio
as impressive as that video is, it really shows just how desperately the combat needs to be made less stupid looking
a lot of advanced techniques are based entirely on making the most absurd looking movements possible in order to confuse your enemy
Sure, but suddenly everyone forgot that.

Scarf Ace said:
And depth can be added in ways other than weird animations. If I was the guy designing the combat system I'd try to keep the general spirit while looking at reality (HEMA, historical resources) to create guidelines as to how the combat should look and feel while keeping everything nice and playable.
I think basing combat more on reality both in terms of looks and the general flow would be a great thing. Here's a video of two HEMA guys using pretty much the same sort of weapon as in that duelling vid. Does this look boring to anyone?
(fight starts 3 minutes in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZucyKsoT_I0
Man can dream, yes :]  Meanwhile hack&slash improved only slightly over years, its core mechanics still the same. You press buttons and swing in few directions. Few can remember that short Parry from Chivalry actually was invented in "Blade of Darkness" (2002) and it works same way.
Recently few hand manipulators appeared that trying to link your hand to pc, yet they are only early prototypes.
Also some people trying to invent new things :

 

Reapy

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Warband is very similar to smash imho because both over a low barrier to entry, at first they both appear to lack complexity, warband (4 blocks, 4 attacks, 1 kick), smash (5 attack directions).  There aren't many options, but it requires some execution on your part to do all the moves as you want.  I'd argue smash and warband are very similar, I have a very hard time in smash executing a tilt vs smash or short hop on demand in pressure situations, the same way I had trouble selecting blocks/attacks in warband.

So you can play both at a basic level and have reasonable success There is good depth out of the gate, enough to always just play like this.

But if you want to go farther, both games open up in complexity like a vast maw. Spending half a second on a competitive smash forum can send you screaming for all the stuff you need to understand and execute to play at a higher level.

This is what makes a great multiplayer game great, lures you in with simplicity, keeps you around with plenty of stuff to do.

My favorite thing about warband was how a newbie can slice right through a pro because he didn't respond to some feint combo the pro spent 3 weeks practicing in a mirror. Just swings his dumb newbie sword, over turning the direction input, purely suicidal and totally the wrong time to swing, and bam, takes the pro's head off. And then suddenly the pro asks himself, how can I just do that, on purpose? Then he spends a month dying like an idiot trying to answer that question.

I think that is what some of the more involved players are trying to hint at, that warband aways will throw some sort of knuckleball at you, some other system to master, some other way to look at how everything interacts, an we are only talking about melee here, there are still throwing weapons, horses, and projectiles to think about. 

We all want better visuals, better expressions of the underlying systems. As beautiful as some of those feinting patterns are I dislike them immeasurably. They start to remind you that you are playing a game... and I think that's what rubs people wrong.

I think they are there because the combat system didn't offer enough offensive tools to overcome someone who could see and block most every 'regular' feint in the game. You didn't see people doing that early on because a 1/2 feint was all that was needed. 

I don't see a way to chop it though with out wrecking the other parts of the game, all the systems in place fight each other. Slow down the block locking in place and you remove responsiveness and the ability to see that someone is set correctly to block you. Ok so then say you reward chambering the attack longer with more stun/damage, and now you give too much time for the defender to pick the correct block.

That one interview said something about gaining weapon speed off weapon momentum or something, and see maybe they already got it figured out, reward actually releasing the attack in some way.

Eh anyway time will tell I guess, fun to argue about it for now at least :smile:
 

Reapy

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Reverence seems to be the ultimate in valuing gameplay over looking stupid... Can't wait to try it out :wink:
 

Alene

The Queen of Diamonds
Archduke
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Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.
You did say "hitting everywhere for full damage", not "hitting in front of him for full damage". Or is that your way of saying "sorry, I was wrong"?

As for the rest of the topic, I'll just say that I am quite convinced that Taleworlds will give us a system which most of us can enjoy.
 

Partizan_Rusi

Squire
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Alene said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.
You did say "hitting everywhere for full damage", not "hitting in front of him for full damage". Or is that your way of saying "sorry, I was wrong"?
Are you one of those tryhards ? You can hit him everywhere on the body if done properly right if front of his face with left frigging swing if you only just use your mouse and point at your enemy. With 1handed weapons is just ridiculous sometimes, because I can hit with left swing hugging face and there is no point to deny that.


Alene said:
As for the rest of the topic, I'll just say that I am quite convinced that Taleworlds will give us a system which most of us can enjoy.
 

Surkan

Baron
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Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.
You did say "hitting everywhere for full damage", not "hitting in front of him for full damage". Or is that your way of saying "sorry, I was wrong"?
Are you one of those tryhards ? You can hit him everywhere on the body if done properly right if front of his face with left frigging swing if you only just use your mouse and point at your enemy. With 1handed weapons is just ridiculous sometimes, because I can hit with left swing hugging face and there is no point to deny that.
sorry but what are you trying to say?
 

The Meddling Monk

Master Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
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I was wondering how a shield bash, like they had in Floris, would work in this game.  It seemed to be a pretty good system in Floris, where if you got it right you could knock your enemy down, but if you missed you were open to an attack.
 

Terrible_Swordsman

Master Knight
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Johan_Stormcloak said:
I was wondering how a shield bash, like they had in Floris, would work in this game.  It seemed to be a pretty good system in Floris, where if you got it right you could knock your enemy down, but if you missed you were open to an attack.
The biggest problem I see with a shield bash is always the effect it has, to be honest the one in cRPG is the best, but at the same time is almost useless as it doesn't hinder the person from blocking instantly. The shield bashes that I would say are the "worst" are the ones in some mods that will knock you to the ground. The problem with this is two things. 1, it mimics something only someone on a horse could previously do, knocking the enemy down to the ground allowing for (if only you are around) a free easy hit, or (if a lot of people are around) as many hits as need be (and don't even get me started on a follow up kick). The other problem with this is that in most mods it happens almost instantly, making it nearly impossible to do sword and shield combat without one party abusing it to no end. Not saying there isn't a way to do it, because I'm sure there is. What I am doing is showing you the shield bashes that I've seen in the game, and why they don't really work.
 

The Meddling Monk

Master Knight
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What if there was a certain "chance" to do a shield bash. What I mean is after doing so many hits/parries, your character would do a shield bash, sort of like having a combo mechanic while still keeping the combat system the same.  What it would do would stagger your opponent for a second, though it would be longer than if he were kicked.  Or maybe that system would not work and  there could be a button instead, just like when you do a kick.
 

Terrible_Swordsman

Master Knight
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Johan_Stormcloak said:
What if there was a certain "chance" to do a shield bash. What I mean is after doing so many hits/parries, your character would do a shield bash, sort of like having a combo mechanic while still keeping the combat system the same.  What it would do would stagger your opponent for a second, though it would be longer than if he were kicked.  Or maybe that system would not work and  there could be a button instead, just like when you do a kick.
A button would make a lot more sense. The only problem I have with most shield bashing in the next game, is solely based on how it has been done in Warband mods. For all I know I could be very wrong and they may have found a really cool bash system. From my experience in both this game and many others shield bashing is almost always an attack that is unblock-able and in this games case, pretty much broken.
 

Keller

Sergeant Knight
WB
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Surkan said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.
You did say "hitting everywhere for full damage", not "hitting in front of him for full damage". Or is that your way of saying "sorry, I was wrong"?
Are you one of those tryhards ? You can hit him everywhere on the body if done properly right if front of his face with left frigging swing if you only just use your mouse and point at your enemy. With 1handed weapons is just ridiculous sometimes, because I can hit with left swing hugging face and there is no point to deny that.
sorry but what are you trying to say?
That he is bad at the game and can't block properly so he has to blame 5-yo mechanics to find excuses, like a 12 yo kid complaining about cheaters each time he dies in a game...
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
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Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Alene said:
Go try left swing and stand in front of the face, you'll be Surprised.
You did say "hitting everywhere for full damage", not "hitting in front of him for full damage". Or is that your way of saying "sorry, I was wrong"?
Are you one of those tryhards ? You can hit him everywhere on the body if done properly right if front of his face with left frigging swing if you only just use your mouse and point at your enemy. With 1handed weapons is just ridiculous sometimes, because I can hit with left swing hugging face and there is no point to deny that.
It's a "I'm bad so I'll complain on the forums h-hey guys you'll agree with me right??"
 

Partizan_Rusi

Squire
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Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]


Keller said:
That he is bad at the game and can't block properly so he has to blame 5-yo mechanics to find excuses, like a 12 yo kid complaining about cheaters each time he dies in a game...
Shemaforash said:
It's a "I'm bad so I'll complain on the forums h-hey guys you'll agree with me right??"

Don't make me laugh, are you crying already ? Now you are spamming bs, no surprise here  :lol:
 

Vissy

Baron
WBNW
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Bannerlord is going to have increased modding capabilities. You should start up your own "realistic combat" project for a singleplayer mod, and then maybe you could ask that guy to help you as well.

It's better than spamming here about things that none of us can really affect.
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
 

Fietta

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Gibby Jr said:
Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Shamefully, it seems like you listened to around 10 seconds of that video. He says 'I have many ways to change the M&B combat. If anyone is working on M&B then contact me about how to make the combat better' He doesn't need to give examples to the public, but he seems to have a good idea. And the person who linked that video said 'Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]' The combat is outdated and clunky 100% with all these feints, greatswords being basically the same speed as 1H etc. Don't have a go at a guy linking a helpful video for TW!  :facepalm: :facepalm:
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Shamefully, it seems like you listened to around 10 seconds of that video. He says 'I have many ways to change the M&B combat. If anyone is working on M&B then contact me about how to make the combat better' He doesn't need to give examples to the public, but he seems to have a good idea.
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Subforum Moderator
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Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Shamefully, it seems like you listened to around 10 seconds of that video. He says 'I have many ways to change the M&B combat. If anyone is working on M&B then contact me about how to make the combat better' He doesn't need to give examples to the public, but he seems to have a good idea.
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: He said contact me taleworlds to talk about how to improve it, so he didn't need to say on that video how to improve it. It also seems like you didn't read what I typed either. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
trot888 said:
Gibby Jr said:
Partizan_Rusi said:


Contact this guy TW, he'll make your outdated and clunky combat better :]
In that video he literally gave no examples of how he could improve it, he was just like "There are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it."

Anyway, you seem to think you know what the problems are, so can you tell me what your issues with the Warband combat actually are?
Shamefully, it seems like you listened to around 10 seconds of that video. He says 'I have many ways to change the M&B combat. If anyone is working on M&B then contact me about how to make the combat better' He doesn't need to give examples to the public, but he seems to have a good idea.
I watched the whole thing, and I summarised it as "there are problems with it and I have ideas about how to fix it." Which is almost exactly the same as "I have many ways to change the M&B combat." Which is what you typed lol, anyway I want my answer from the Russian guy.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: He said contact me taleworlds to talk about how to improve it  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
I don't see how that's relevant, the guy linked the video as though it somehow proved to the dozens of people arguing with him that he was right, which it didn't at all. Which is why I'm asking him what the issues are because the video didn't outline them.

The video is not helpful for TW at all because there is nothing in it that benefits them at all, why contact another guy that's going to tell them that it's unrealistic and they need to make it more so, that's evidently not what TW want to do in their combat and I like it unrealistic, it wouldn't be as fun it they tried to make it more like real life.
 
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