Would you like Taleworlds to make a new Future Plans post, similar to this?

  • Yes

    Votes: 83 92.2%
  • No

    Votes: 7 7.8%

  • Total voters
    90

Users who are viewing this thread

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
I was trying to say that the battle terrain system is probably not the best example as its fundamental purpose was achieved upon its release. Prior goals for other scene types, on the other hand, were likely overly optimistic. :razz:


You are responding to a reference of me joining the forums around 2010 as a fan. I didn't join the company until 2019. Given that I did pay for Mount & Blade and Warband at the time, the statement holds for me personally.


Further adjustments are possible but I wouldn't expect them in the near future.
hah! from Mod to Dev, wasn't aware. At least we got "one of us" there now.
Anyway, if Armageddon was more plain, communicative and straightforward ppl wouldn't lash out as much.
He never really laid a plan for the game openly (and I suspect that's because he never really had one), it was always hints and half-truths with actual planning / road map never being shown, as such it drove everyone into excessive speculation, and what made it worse were devs saying things they shouldn't ahead of time, and some Armageddon announcements bringing down the entire PR of the company.

Wanna know what I think? Your employer lacks proper leadership and practical logistical workframes. The fact that Armageddon has banned deadlines and apparently allowed entire pipe-lines to be discarded only to be redone multiple times (including what I believe were 2 different engines) makes for a pretty poor productivity, allows development hell loops, and ultimately makes the final product worse under the public gaze (and practically due to it nullifying any functional tailoring towards features). Because without deadlines development took much longer than it should, and as that happens, any cuts to features are perceived as offending towards those who were looking forward to them meaning that nobody accepts cuts when there's no deadline which translates into: "you had all the time in the world to make it happen, and you've cut it for no practical reason".

When the first PR crisis happened it was pretty funny and very concerning because that's when Armageddon disappeared, I doubt that he ever had a real plan for the game, it feels that the entire endeavor was based upon "we see as we go" leadership instead of an actual goal oriented leadership and that makes a huge difference... HUGE....

In a more descriptive example, if you have goal oriented leadership and logistics, it's layed out which features MUST be in the game (when done proper, are the features announced) and there's a hyperfocus on getting these done and working, if they present technical flaws, than it's technically tailored to support them, if there's in-game flow / flux / experience flaws, than effort must be put to find circumventing ideas that may keep the feature up and mitigate the gameplay break it's causing. Cutting it must be when everything's doomed but only due to time restraints (which weren't the case - for a lot of the cuts).
 
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xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
We've had "one of us" since the first game from another modder-turned-developer. There's a few of them, actually.
predates me, wouldn't know, predates the "HOPE" too :lol:

Also, wasn't duh just a Moderator before? Can't remember his mods

Remember the top quality mods from WB though can't remember authors. Like Diplomacy (staple resource mod for 99% of the mods), Floris which was the best "vanilla like" mod. And 1257 AD because it carried the best combat balancing over all mods in the entirety of Warband's existance. The original M&B, well, I never owned it but I remember playing it a billion years ago, I believe it was one of the betas or something. It was my first contact with the game, still remember the memorable experience of getting lost in Khergit territory, entering the castle and trying to see if there was something to do, I was in awe with the architecture of the castle, but found it too dark and creepy! lol

A few years later I found WB on Steam and bought it along with a Uni friend, we spent half our wake time playing WB and half of it doing our papers xD
 
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xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
Wait so the latest changes relating to armour which made arrows even more busted are what you guys consider "reasonable"?
their armor / wepon / dmg type system has been crap since the start.
This mod fixes it:

but be aware that using it alongside other mods can cause excessive grief due to other mods balancing around TW's armor abomination
Mod's also relatively unrealistic, because as always, most ppl think cloth armor's just paper and everything goes through it (GL cutting through a well crafted gambeson, or causing blunt trauma) - Historical Nerd mode on: Hardened Leather's easier to cut through than a well made gambeson
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I don't really see how this relates to my original post - which simply had me disagree with the term abandonment as communication has increased rather than decreased during the timeline that I personally experienced. It's not terribly contentious.
I'm not a mp person in this game, thank god. Mp may not be abandoned but it sure seems like your company has no idea of what to do with it or how to get it in a good shape. It's literally unplayable for many.
To be very dry... because work doesn't happen in isolation, time & resources are limited and a choice has to be made between different priorities. As the last change has achieved a reasonable improvement, other tasks were valued relatively higher.
Duh I respect the work you do and I'm glad you're here on these forums. But I have to call bs on how limited Taleworlds time is. The project has been in development for over a decade, and in ea for over 2 years. There are months between updates, and hotfixes can take weeks to months. Taleworlds has never shown that they're in a rush to finish this game or even release patches so please don't bring up time restraints because it comes across as disingenuous.
 

ElCrisp

Sergeant
To be very dry... because work doesn't happen in isolation, time & resources are limited and a choice has to be made between different priorities. As the last change has achieved a reasonable improvement, other tasks were valued relatively higher.
I appreciate most the dry and direct answers, especially because I appreciate how they attract further critisim. There is a bravery to them when you are in the minority making them.
I understand Devs at TW wear multiple hats and there may have been a large sort of framework or foundational type issues that were given higher priority, lets say maybe seige ai and fixing those calaculations, which I appreciate is probably a complex problem.
But it seems to me something like playing with numbers in forumla or equipment requires the least technical know how, but importantly leads to big differences in game feel for the player. So as far as the economics of Dev time it seems like an easy win. Like someone of fairly average modding abilities could be hired part time to play around with numbers if you agreed with or set their direction. I guess the development team is just that lean? Or the teams assesement of the time taken versus payoff is different to mine.

Outside that more meaningful gameplay impact, when you see an armour peice that has stat values that make you go "huh why?" it makes the game feel more unfinished than it should.

Again appreciate the asnwer even if it leads to perhaps unhelpful speculation of a few (myself included) But when we can't see the weather forcast we resort to reading entrails ahah.
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
Also, wasn't duh just a Moderator before? Can't remember his mods

Remember the top quality mods from WB though can't remember authors. Like Diplomacy (staple resource mod for 99% of the mods), Floris which was the best "vanilla like" mod
:iamamoron:
But I have to call bs on how limited Taleworlds time is.
The point I tried to convey is that (all) time & resources are limited and choices are made between different priorities. So it's not that "we can't do X because of how limited our time is" but rather "X is not coming soon / updated at every iteration because time & resources are limited and other priorities were chosen first". Naturally, one may disagree with the choice being made.

And just to be clear - this is neither a promise nor a prediction that a change will come eventually. It is an isolated response to this inquiry
"I would of have been fine if there were a slightly different armour formula tested in every single beta since early access. Why not?"

Cool cool. If I can ask, what is your current personal opinion on the state of arrow damage to armour?
I wouldn't mind an adjustment for piercing in line with the buff that we saw against other damage types. Of course, it should be done in a way that doesn't invalidate archery and polearms in field battles and sieges.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Here are the ressources:

p01k7cgf9zf91.jpg
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
:iamamoron:

The point I tried to convey is that (all) time & resources are limited and choices are made between different priorities. So it's not that "we can't do X because of how limited our time is" but rather "X is not coming soon / updated at every iteration because time & resources are limited and other priorities were chosen first". Naturally, one may disagree with the choice being made.

And just to be clear - this is neither a promise nor a prediction that a change will come eventually. It is an isolated response to this inquiry
"I would of have been fine if there were a slightly different armour formula tested in every single beta since early access. Why not?"


I wouldn't mind an adjustment for piercing in line with the buff that we saw against other damage types. Of course, it should be done in a way that doesn't invalidate archery and polearms in field battles and sieges.
The armor formula already exists, both that mod I've indicated and 1257ad have what's the most "realistic" yet with enough caveats to make it possible to beat full plate tanks. The only change that needs to be done is splitting common cloth from linen cloth, and making linen more resistant than leather. As for leather if it was I in charge it would have never made into the game (too expensive, too worthless - historically speaking it was always used to bind other materials or layering extra protection, even modern day leather curating and hardening can't stop a 11th century steel sword from cutting through)

What was really interesting with 1257ad was that if you aimed at weakspots you actually did more dmg, idk how the game register materials, but it worked perfectly. I remember doing tournaments at lvl 1 in 1257 against full armored knights and managing to beat them with use of momentum + aiming at weak spots like the neck.

Here are the ressources:

p01k7cgf9zf91.jpg
:facepalm:
Games like this don't work well in consoles, and ppl who use controllers to play them are just stubborn fools imho. Waste of time and resources if you ask me (on a quality stand point), it does offer a wider range of ppl to milk cash from though.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I wouldn't mind an adjustment for piercing in line with the buff that we saw against other damage types. Of course, it should be done in a way that doesn't invalidate archery and polearms in field battles and sieges.
We're in agreement on that.

My thoughts are that stabbing polearms are inherently quite weak already, both in the hands of the player and AI, so they need a buff regardless of what happens with pierce damage. As for archers, considering how massively strong they are, increasing armor's pierce damage resistance by about 1.5x of what it is now shouldn't make archers too weak. But if it does, we could always reduce the HP of shields a little, since they can tank way too many hits.
 

svelok

Sergeant
My thoughts are that stabbing polearms are inherently quite weak already, both in the hands of the player and AI, so they need a buff regardless of what happens with pierce damage.
Polearm vs polearm combat (whether its player vs AI, or AI vs AI) is probably the single weakest aspect of combat gameplay, IMO. It's not something that just a tweak to damage/armor would fix, but the fact that changing pierce damage means testing and rebalancing all polearms is probably part of why it's been moved down the priority queue (even though its like a one-line code change aside from that).
 

Orakan

Recruit
1 year ago, Taleworlds made a Future Plans post, which told us some of the features they wanted to include in the game, and an estimated release date of Q2 2022.

We're now in Q3 2022. The release date was missed again. The planned features are only half done. There's been no patch for nearly 2 months, and silence from Taleworlds. And Bannerlord still has many serious gameplay problems and some missing features, many of which have not been acknowledged.

So, one last Future Plans post is needed, to give the community a release date, reveal to us Taleworlds' plan (if they have one), and acknowledge they are aware of all the game's problems and are going to make Bannerlord a good, fun sequel to Warband that fulfills all its promises.

Here's an example of how it could look:







Greetings warriors of Calradia!

Welcome to our second Future Plans post, which will outline our final plans for the game. Let's look at how much progress we've made since our last post:

* Battle Terrain System: ✴️ We are working on field battle scenes and have 72 to go! Scenes will keep being added after release!
* Companion Peerage: ✅
* Order of Battle: ✴️ We are improving troop sorting based on player feedback!
* Banner Bearers: ❌ Coming soon!
* Party Templates: ✅
* Cut Scenes: ✅
* Sally out mission: ❌ On hold for now.
* Claimant Quests: ❌ Coming soon!
* Voiced Greetings: ❌ We are finding a terrible Arnold Schwarzenegger impersonator to voice Sea Raider greeting lines!
* Simulation Deaths: ✅
* Respec perks: ✅
* Retire Character: ❌ On hold for now.
* Ambient Sound System: ❌ In progress!
* Steam Workshop mod support: ❌ In progress!

Our estimate of having the game ready for release by Q2 2022 missed its mark, and we'd like to apologise for the delay, but we have good news: the delay will be worth it!

In addition to the features we showed in 2021, we promised "more surprises." We have finished deciding how to complete the game. Our aim is to fulfill Bannerlord's pre-release promises, and return missing features from Mount & Blade Warband, so Bannerlord will deliver on all expectations we set. Here is the full, final list of features we plan for Bannerlord to have by release.

CRIMINAL ENTERPRISES
We first teased this much-anticipated feature in 2016, and now it's finally ready! Once the player has defeated an alley gang in combat, they now have the option to start a Criminal Operation in the alley. This is like a workshop, but rather than creating goods, your thugs will rob people to make you money for free! On the downside, it raises your Crime rating, and reduces the security and propserity of the town.
Here we have a demo of this feature:

MINOR FACTION BASES
Minor faction bases, from our 2016 demo, will make minor factions actually do something useful! At these hidden bases, you can do quests to improve your relations with a minor faction, talk to a leader to hire them as mercenaries, recruit unique troops directly, and the minor factions can recruit their own special troops into their armies. Or you can destroy their base to wipe out the minor faction, if you so choose!
QewCKIz.png


KINGDOM MESSENGER
Many players complain it takes too long to find and recruit lords. In Warband, lords visited your capital city, making recruiting lords easier. This was too hard for Bannerlord's more complex AI, so we are working on a system where playes can send out messages by talking to a Minister in their lord's hall, which should make the kingdom phase of the game less irritating and make players feel more like a real ruler.

FEASTS
The beloved feature of Mount & Blade Warband makes a return! The AI will hold feasts during peacetime, which you can attend to gain relation with the guests, and talk to many nobles in one place about marriages or quests; you can also host a feast of your own to gain influence and reputation, or just sit back and enjoy the atmosphere!
After just 1 day of work, here is how the feature looks:

MANHUNTERS
Bandit infestations around the area of a fief can sometimes get massively out of control. These bounty hunters, returning from Warband, can be hired by lords or the player to patrol their fiefs and clean up crime... at a cost! They also have a unique troop tree you can recruit, perfect for capturing prisoners.
After just 1 day of work, here is how the feature looks:

SURPRISE ENCOUNTERS
"You have fallen into a trap!" Returning from Warband, the player can sometimes be ambushed by bandits when they visit towns at night, creating an exciting fight for your life in an interesting setting!
After just 1 hour of work, here is how the feature looks:

REPLAY SYSTEM FOR MULTIPLAYER
First shown in 2020, when it had basic functionality and was lacking UI elements, it is now ready for release. The replay system will allow players to save video of their multiplayer matches!
Here is a demo:

BUGFIXING, BALANCING AND COMPLETING EXISTING FEATURES
In addition, we can confirm work continues on major gameplay issues such as: constant war declarations, tribute calculations favouring the loser, defeated kingdoms not dying off, meaningless votes, nobody ever surrendering, slow player and companion skill levelling, non functional personality traits, noble relations being useless, arrows doing too much damage to armour, the AI's inability to use spears and lances, archers' inability to hit circling horses, jittering unit collision, weapon imbalances, incomplete morale, troop trees lacking variety, the inability to target a specific enemy formation, bugged rain effects, unimplemented town, castle and field battle scenes, lack of variety in siege and hideout music, completing the mod tools, fixing our multiplayer servers, and fixing bugs, performance issues, and crashes.

RELEASE DATE AND EXPANSION
Our new release date is Q2 2023, one year from now. We think we can manage this, and will try hard to reach this release date; however, if this is not possible as the game's features are still not all ready, we will delay the release date one more time.

After release, we will also work on a paid DLC expansion for the game, Mount & Blade: Nordland, which will introduce the Nords faction, ships, naval travel and combat, and other features!

Hopefully, this Future Plans post should have answered all your major questions about the future of Bannerlord, so now you can stop asking us :smile:

Thanks for reading, and have fun. My name is Callum Newell, and my favourite bandit is the Looter.







This is purely a hypothetical post, and not a real statement from TW.

Credit to @Bloc for his gameplay demos of how missing Warband features would look in Bannerlord, which prove it would only take 1 day's work for 1 person to implement them in the game.

A post like this would give me and many other players and buyers confidence that Taleworlds knows all the issues with the game and has a complete plan for solving them. @Callum @Dejan Have you folks got any Future Plans post in the works similar to this?
that is great post, we realy need all of these options and even more like more diplomacy options on war times. Thank you for this amazing work to creating this post
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
:facepalm:
Games like this don't work well in consoles, and ppl who use controllers to play them are just stubborn fools imho. Waste of time and resources if you ask me (on a quality stand point), it does offer a wider range of ppl to milk cash from though.
I tried playing Skyrim with a console controller. That lasted all of about 30 seconds. Controllers are fine for action or fighting games but almost anything else M&K >>>controller.
They released Warband on consoles and it did fairly well. I'm guessing they figure that they could squeeze some more money out of an untapped market. This kind of open world game with fast action combat appeals to plenty of gamers because they won't play more than a few hours so they won't really see or care that it has zero depth.
Polearm vs polearm combat (whether its player vs AI, or AI vs AI) is probably the single weakest aspect of combat gameplay, IMO. It's not something that just a tweak to damage/armor would fix, but the fact that changing pierce damage means testing and rebalancing all polearms is probably part of why it's been moved down the priority queue (even though its like a one-line code change aside from that).
Yeah agreed polearm v polearm is terrible and yes to do a proper job they need to test and rebalance it. But if they did a buff to polearms it would go a long way to making them at least semi-viable and not trash tier because if you decide to use a piercing polearm in this game your wasting your time.
 

ElCrisp

Sergeant
:iamamoron:
I wouldn't mind an adjustment for piercing in line with the buff that we saw against other damage types. Of course, it should be done in a way that doesn't invalidate archery and polearms in field battles and sieges.
Thrusting polarms need all sorts of love. On foot they could use more thrusting speed / earlier hit detection. The AI needs a lot of help with spears as you guys know. If you load into a tournament where all AI have lances you can see this pretty clearly, they hug one another while they flaccidly prod each other.

Archers could have their fire rate lowered too, that was one of the big difference I noticed loading into BL from WB with very low bow skill you are loosing arrows quick.

If armour was buffed you could probably afford to nerf shields coverage or durabillity too Opening a few more lucky shots for archers. Which simultaneously would give a relative boost to shock troops as an infantry choice.

Aslo I was unaware you worked on Floris Duh thank you for whatever your contributions were, that was my favourite warband mod and I sank 100s of hours into it. Your mod made me buy Bannerlord on release. :grin:
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
:facepalm:
Games like this don't work well in consoles, and ppl who use controllers to play them are just stubborn fools imho. Waste of time and resources if you ask me (on a quality stand point), it does offer a wider range of ppl to milk cash from though.
I don´t agree, Warband worked good and Bannerlord will also work good. The UI is already designed to be controlled with a controller from the beginning. Battles are even more fun in my opinion with a controller.

The shame is, us PC players "funded/paid" the EA and TW uses a lot of ressources to make this console port while the PC version is still lacking...that´s why nothing is going forward with the PC version.
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
Thrusting polarms need all sorts of love. On foot they could use more thrusting speed / earlier hit detection. The AI needs a lot of help with spears as you guys know. If you load into a tournament where all AI have lances you can see this pretty clearly, they hug one another while they flaccidly prod each other.

Archers could have their fire rate lowered too, that was one of the big difference I noticed loading into BL from WB with very low bow skill you are loosing arrows quick.

If armour was buffed you could probably afford to nerf shields coverage or durabillity too Opening a few more lucky shots for archers. Which simultaneously would give a relative boost to shock troops as an infantry choice.

Aslo I was unaware you worked on Floris Duh thank you for whatever your contributions were, that was my favourite warband mod and I sank 100s of hours into it. Your mod made me buy Bannerlord on release. :grin:
there's the key, the AI needs fixing, not necessarily the system. What I miss are features from mods from WB like Formations, which made every formation work differently for the AI. The most efficient discovery I made (because the author made sure to make it as realistic as possible) was that Nord archers (heavily armored archers with lame bow skills) worked like magestic beasts being deployed with the infantry + being on a shield-wall formation. It was simply fantastic. Heavy inf + heavy spearmen would stop horse charges, and the archers would be on the last line mowing down any horsemen who got stuck. Than I'd put them in Ranks and call the destroy formation and it was beautiful watching as the shock troops would mow down everyone while the archers were supporting and killing and possibility of the enemies fleeing.

The shieldwall formation with mixed troops would go very logical: Short weapons + shields on front (huscarls), the spearmen on the second / third / fourth rank, and if with bowmen, those would stay at the last rank almost always. Than by giving commands to spread the formation a bit would make room for arrow shooting, so I'd constantly order them to spread out and close in as they were walking into an enemy formation. Worked like a charm, yet it's impossible to reproduce in BL, both due to bad formation placement (never taking account mixed units) and bad AI, add to that the armor being almost useless, and we're in for hell... I think the most annoying thing is that looters with rocks in vanilla BL can basically mow down an army of elites with the proper environment, it also made mounted archers completely broken in a very unrealistic way. Arrows simply cannot pierce plate armor, and would still have a massive difficulty piercing mail with gambeson. So any well equipped army should basically nullify the effectiveness of ranged weapons, yet it's quite the contrary in BL.
 
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