Fun, but realistic?

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I know there are a lot of people on these boards that really know their history... I'm afraid I'm not one of them.  There are two things that seem a little... off... in F&S regarding firearms.  It's bugging me whether these are realistic details or compromises made for playability (or programmability).  I must say, I exploit them like the movie industry so I'm not coming at this topic from a position of "purity".

1) Can you really reload and fire wheellock, flintlock or matchlock rifles or pistols on a horse while it is cantering around (let's leave gallop out of it for a moment)?  Seems like matchlock would be particularly prone to misfire with the gunpowder blowing out of the ignition pan.

2) It seems like rain has no effect on firearms in the game.  Is this true, and if so is it realistic?

I can see that having a misfire mechanic could lead to someone asking for a overheat/explosion in the barrel mechanic... that's not really where I'm going.  I understand why lances/spears never break.    I just want to know whether my "intuition" about what would be a closer simulation is correct.  *Knowing* that this was a compromise with the engine or for a more playable game would help me come to terms with it.

*edited for formatting*
 
It was certainly possible to reload flintlock and wheellock pistols on horseback quite comfortably, as was done by all sorts of cavalry well into the Napoleonic wars. In both systems, the pan was covered, and they were very reliable (the difference being, mainly, that the flintlock system was cheaper, simpler, more reliable and had less moving parts, but both got the job done very well).

There certainly were dedicated matchlock cavalry weapons (notably petronels, which were carried slung from the chest and were pressed against the chest to be aimed and fired with one hand from horseback) though I can imagine that the system was far more cumbersome to load on the move.

However, loading and firing guns on horseback was the mainstay of the caracole technique of the period, which involved advancing towards the enemy at a trot with the first rank firing its pistols and retiring to the back of the formation, where they would reload while the other ranks fired and wheeled to the back.

This technique was meant for pistol-armed cavalry to soften up infantry ranks and open gaps in infantry formations to open the way for heavy cavalry and lancers to charge.
 
Hey this guy does bring up a point maybe if weather affected a gunners aim and etc it would balance things out a bit more. Anyhow this realism is pretty fun although i find big rocks better to hide behind then buildings, and wagons aha.
 
Wu-long said:
Hey this guy does bring up a point maybe if weather affected a gunners aim and etc it would balance things out a bit more. Anyhow this realism is pretty fun although i find big rocks better to hide behind then buildings, and wagons aha.

Aiming, no, but I think the rain should slow down reload rate, due to the extra care to prevent your powder from getting wet.  If they took even more aiming away you'd be better off beating them to death with the muskets than firing them lol.
 
Well, you gotta remember, this is just a mod of an Indie game... for 1. They use stirrups for archery and firearms back in those times. 2. It's the fog with the rain that affects your range.
 
yigg23 said:
Wu-long said:
Hey this guy does bring up a point maybe if weather affected a gunners aim and etc it would balance things out a bit more. Anyhow this realism is pretty fun although i find big rocks better to hide behind then buildings, and wagons aha.

Aiming, no, but I think the rain should slow down reload rate, due to the extra care to prevent your powder from getting wet.  If they took even more aiming away you'd be better off beating them to death with the muskets than firing them lol.

Probably it would even be realistic,
that rain (especially heavy rain) prevents the use of matchlock weapons altogether,
after all matchlock weapons seem to have their most important elements (match, powder)
much more exposed to the elements, than weapons with the other types of locks (wheellock, miquelet)
 
Proteus said:
yigg23 said:
Wu-long said:
Hey this guy does bring up a point maybe if weather affected a gunners aim and etc it would balance things out a bit more. Anyhow this realism is pretty fun although i find big rocks better to hide behind then buildings, and wagons aha.

Aiming, no, but I think the rain should slow down reload rate, due to the extra care to prevent your powder from getting wet.  If they took even more aiming away you'd be better off beating them to death with the muskets than firing them lol.

Probably it would even be realistic,
that rain (especially heavy rain) prevents the use of matchlock weapons altogether,
after all matchlock weapons seem to have their most important elements (match, powder)
much more exposed to the elements, than weapons with the other types of locks (wheellock, miquelet)

Heh I call that Karma for going pure besides they make crossbowmen slower in reload so why not gun men? Maybe it is carried on and guns=crossbows cause it is built on Warband's engine after all this version we are playing.
 
1. Only wheelock whas used from horseback, flintlock whas not widely used at the time.

2. Since matchlock whas the most common kind of weapon rain had HUGE effect and battles we're almost never fought when it rained.
 
Rhonerin said:
1. Only wheelock whas used from horseback, flintlock whas not widely used at the time.

2. Since matchlock whas the most common kind of weapon rain had HUGE effect and battles we're almost never fought when it rained.

Care to devise the difference of the different guns?
 
Wu-long said:
Rhonerin said:
1. Only wheelock whas used from horseback, flintlock whas not widely used at the time.

2. Since matchlock whas the most common kind of weapon rain had HUGE effect and battles we're almost never fought when it rained.

Care to devise the difference of the different guns?

Flintlock= cheap, pretty relaible and simple to learn

Wheelock= complicated with many parts, pretty relaible(atleast the first few shots), small chance of missfire and the powder whas well protected so it woud not fall out or get wet easily

Matchlock= Pretty simple, big chance of missfire and for the powder to get wet becouse the pan is open and the powder can simply fall out of the pan if used incorrectly or if riding full speed with a horse and the pistol is going up and down.

Anything more?
 
Wu-long said:
Rhonerin said:
1. Only wheelock whas used from horseback, flintlock whas not widely used at the time.

2. Since matchlock whas the most common kind of weapon rain had HUGE effect and battles we're almost never fought when it rained.

Care to devise the difference of the different guns?

In order of general adoption and usage:

Matchlock = A burning match cord (like a little rope) is held by a spring that you cock back (like the hammer in modern firearms). You dump a little powder into a flash pan (which is connected by a little tube to the barrel) and the rest into the barrel's muzzle. When you pull the trigger, the match hits the powder, ignites it, and fires. The match and powder are open to the elements at all times, thus rain WOULD make matchlock weapons inoperable.

Wheellock = A sort of tangent improvement, this basically was an internalized mechanism using a wheel that, when ground by the pull of the trigger, would generate sparks and ignite the powder in the pan (same firing mechanism). This had the advantage of being completely covered once you closed the powder chamber, but the mechanism was expensive and complex, requiring a well-trained gunsmith.

Flintlock = A simplified wheellock, taking all the conveniences while integrating a matchlock's simplicity. The mechanism is a bit more complex than the matchlock; the flash pan is covered by a 'frizzen', which includes a metal piece that rises up. The hammer, in this case, holds a piece of flint; when you pull the trigger, the hammer snaps forward, pushing the frizzen forward (and thus exposing the gunpowder when needed to fire), and the flint striking the steel piece (I'm unsure of the term) generates sparks as it drives downward, thus removing the elemental concerns (flint and steel can be struck for sparks even when wet).
 
yobbo said:
1) Can you really reload and fire wheellock, flintlock or matchlock rifles or pistols on a horse while it is cantering around (let's leave gallop out of it for a moment)?  Seems like matchlock would be particularly prone to misfire with the gunpowder blowing out of the ignition pan.
The flash pan closes precisely to prevent that :lol: The entire purpose of the carbine was to give cavalry a weapon they could reload from horseback, although it's still too early for true carbines their predecessors would certainly be present. Given even loose powder is loaded from flasks or horns the gait of the horse wouldn't be an issue.
2) It seems like rain has no effect on firearms in the game.  Is this true, and if so is it realistic?
It has the same effect it had on crossbows. Realistically it's a bit of a toss up; on the one hand it introduces complications, on the other the notion that the weapons became completely ineffective is likewise technically incorrect. The main problem rain introduces is keeping the match lit.

yigg23 said:
Aiming, no, but I think the rain should slow down reload rate, due to the extra care to prevent your powder from getting wet. 
Powder is poured from your flask or horn directly into the barrel and pan so that wouldn't be a worry. If the powder was exposed sufficiently to get damp, odds are it's also exposed sufficiently to be ignited by the backblast from your gun ...

 
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