FSE : Battle Cry of Freedom

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The attitude is actually "if you're a retard, you're a retard". Being a regular just allows you more leeway with the jokes, because the admins and mods know when you're a twat for real and when it's only bad humour.
Lascivo said:
Good Lord these NW guys are annoying and stupid.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but had you asked me a minute earlier I would've sworn you're one of them. :razz:
 
MercerQC said:
I just love how when you have nothing to answer, you just use insults and mockeries.
And then you judge me as someone brainless.

That makes so much sense

Hey man, just like you can't lump all NW players together, you can't lump all TWs together either. I was just pointing out that you were making an fool out of yourself.
 
Wellenbrecher said:
Lascivo said:
Good Lord these NW guys are annoying and stupid.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but had you asked me a minute earlier I would've sworn you're one of them. :razz:

I was the only guy there who was cool.Realising everyone else was totally un-cool I fled to the Off-topic,where everyone is cool,of course.

:razz:
 
K-64 said:
I "have nothing to answer" as you so failed to actually put in a logical place, because you had posted nothing that warranted an answer. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Lol...
Seriously, why am I even replying to this.

Your mommy must be so proud to have such a smart and unpretentious **** like you as a kid.

My time on this forum is over, I enjoyed a lot my last 15minutes.
It was a great pleasure to meet you all fun and caring folks

Peace out my friends
 
Suspicious Pilgrim said:
I tried typing up an insult for Mercer, but every time I tried I ended up risking a mute.
If dear Mercer has no problem with paying for the right to offer suggestions, then let him be. The beauty of living in the first world or the US is to have the right to be nearly as stupid as you want to be.
 
Coconut said:
I've heard that the Napoleonic Wars source code was released rather late because Vince did not want the North & South Mod to "Overshadow" or steal the thunder away from BCoF announcement(This is nearly speculation and not based on any fact)

It amazes me how many baseless rumors and accusations are leveled against FSE. At one point TW released a bunch of patches and suddenly the rumor was floating around that it was a conspiracy by FSE to undermine all other mods.

Perhaps 300 players or 250 player slot servers are not being attempted to be implemented because it would be a small difference compared to the player size that BCoF proclaims it can support. Also such good servers might cost money that other people can pay for but the official servers are not willing to.

250 players is not an unreasonable request (even though it still says 250 players on the taleworlds NW main page)
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.

For the 100th time (I know this isn't your fault just saying):
Limiting the player count from 250 to 200 was TW decision because large number of MP players was a selling feature for MB2.

Goker said:
Donators are investors now?

To a degree yes! People are investing money into the project out of interest in seeing it being developed. In this case however the returns are not financial.

Goker said:
You really don't see anything wrong with this? I know how NW is, I would perhaps like to make a few suggestions and see the reactions of the developers towards them, which would help me decide if I would buy their game or not. But I have to pay before making those suggestions or those suggestions might be overlooked and won't be as important as people who have already given money? Well, that is bull****.

Ok let me comment on this.  There are plenty of companies that don't even bother to consider suggestions from the community when developing a title especially if its not a sequel. So far FSE hasn't said: We will not consider suggestions from the general community without payment. They are giving preferential treatment to investors who will practically be pre-purchasing the product, since anything equal to or over 20 euros will result in receival of the product upon release. So I can see why they might give preferential treatment to people who have already purchased the game rather than people who may or may not purchase it down the track. Not to mention that FSE needs to complete its core goals before it can start taking on major suggestions with a simple team of 4 devs.

Oh wait, the Marketing Manager says "We do not take suggestions in this board" and that is the General Information board. On the same board, the developer's thread says "This is the General Discussion Board. Post anything related to Battle Cry of Freedom here. Feel free to ask questions, discuss the game etc."

Goker, one of FSE's major problems is over-communication. It would have been better they hadn't said anything at all on the matter of suggestions and just left overlooking suggestions to their own discretion (which is what most companies do). I am beginning to understand why TW doesn't bother communicating with the community anymore since any mishap in its communication results in the proverbial ****-storm.
While FSE has a marketing manager, what it really needs is a public relations manager since its been swimming up-stream against a tide of resentment since day 1. In many cases due to situations for which it was not directly responsible.

No "Suggestions". So I guess you do have to pay for "Suggestions" after all. It's not simply a case of being overlooked. You simply can't suggest unless you donate. That is even worse.

People are already making suggestions in the general forum and some of the devs have responded to them.
I am not saying that they will take them on board but I am saying this is a bit of a storm in a teacup.

You've been here since 2006, rejenorst. You at least know M&B did it, if not others. Did you see Armağan say that he wouldn't pay much attention to the suggestions of those who didn't buy his game? Because it was on sale, it wasn't even a "donation". It was on sale for 15 dollars, to anyone who wanted to buy it, giving them a  pre-release version of the game. You know what else it had? A demo version.

I am well acquainted with TW and its stance on suggestions, probably better than most of you and I know for a fact that there are plenty of suggestions that where overlooked, discarded or contrary to TW's final position for various reasons. Yes they looked at suggestions from non-paying customers but they also charged money for an unfinished product thus generating a stream of revenue large enough to maintain that policy.

I also know for a fact that FSE looked at every single suggestion post made in their forums for NW and implemented what they could. People are free to post suggestions on the BCOF forum and like I said they already are, however as the dev team stated they are insanely busy trying to get the core goals of their product done and since donators will be part of the alpha and beta team automatically I can see why their suggestions would be more valued during the initial phases. In TW's case anyone could be a beta tester since you could download the demo/product for free. This may or may not always be technically possible with different engines/games but I am pretty sure FSE would consider a demo down the track.

Have you seen any other forum sites of game developers openly say that they wouldn't pay much attention to the suggestions of people who haven't pledged/donated money to or bought their product? Because this is essentially what it is. Have you seen Kickstarter project developers who refused to listen to people who have not pledged to their project?

Because that is just not how a customer should be treated.

Potential customer you mean. And since when are potential customers entitled to have their suggestions built into the game and since when do they decide when and where a dev should listen to their suggestions?

While I agree it would have best been left unsaid, the fact of the matter is people are free to make suggestions and the devs are free to read them at their leisure. When people pay early for a product the devs acknowledge that they have a responsibility to take their already paying customer's suggestions to heart.



 
rejenorst said:
While FSE has a marketing manager, what it really needs is a public relations manager since its been swimming up-stream against a tide of resentment since day 1.
It's their own fault for having appalling moderation skills. Handing out mutes to people who mention other mods in threads, immediate biased mutes to certain a forum member who, whilst having a bit of a 'past' with Vincenzo posted sensibly & on-topic in the NW suggestions thread, was muted. When one of that forum members friends weighed in he was muted too. The PMs between that chap & Vincenzo were... interesting to say the least & I wish I could post them. Then there are all the 'scandals' they've been involved in; Vince deliberately cheating on his cRPG server & blaming it on 'being drunk for 4 days', there's the recent one with Olafsson & Betty where they should absolute lack of sense by allowing a thread started by a troll to escalate beyond one page & even urged VirginMary on and Olafsson said effectively that they were seperate from TW so could do what they wanted. Then we move on to the downvoting on ModDB where Vincenzo downvoted mod after mod & please, they were more than partly-responsible for the patching issue. Instead of working with the WSE & modding guys, informing them of when there was going to be a patch & actually allowing them to be ready to work around it, each patch came out of the blue & disrupted every mod - why do you think both Vikingr & Deluge went standalone? They were screwed over by these patches again & again, hours of their work wasted because the 'over-communicating' FSE didn't communicate with them.

In short they've made fools of themselves of their own willing & created the resentment against them. I'm very supportive of the mod teams of M&B, I'm grateful that they make the stuff they do so I can play it, but when they act like arrogant, childish idiots it's their own fault.

If you still think Vince is beyond reproach check this thread & his response - friendly & sincere isn't it? Full of support & encouragement for someone modding his teams work, wouldn't you agree?

rejenorst said:
I also know for a fact that FSE looked at every single suggestion post made in their forums for NW and implemented what they could.
I made a suggestion once, regarding sabre's & how they were held, pointing them at the enemy whilst charging - that sort of thing. I posted a screenshot from The Deluge to cite where it had already been done in Warband & thus could be done in NW. Post deleted. I then reposted it. Post deleted again. In the ensuing debacle they deleted posts left, right & centre to keep any criticism or any posts mentioning other mods or just those who might be linked to the aforementioned forum members off their threads. All of the posts were sensible posts & questioned why posts had been deleted.

I didn't have a problem with Vincenzo or his team prior to NW, but post its release they've just riled up me & other forum members with the way they've acted & posted.

Warning, written straight after getting out of bed so excuse any poor grammar or spellings.
 
rapier17 said:
It's their own fault for having appalling moderation skills. Handing out mutes to people who mention other mods in threads, immediate biased mutes to certain a forum member who, whilst having a bit of a 'past' with Vincenzo posted sensibly & on-topic in the NW suggestions thread, was muted. When one of that forum members friends weighed in he was muted too. The PMs between that chap & Vincenzo were... interesting to say the least & I wish I could post them. Then there are all the 'scandals' they've been involved in;

Seriously? Some chap I bumped into in the pub says otherwise so its not their fault /sarcasm.
There have been plenty of cases where moderators may have taken hefty measures or the wrong measures and most of the time there will always be another side to the story. In any case a quick search of muted in the NW forums only brings up 16 results half of them to do with technical problems and not punishments.

Vince deliberately cheating on his cRPG server & blaming it on 'being drunk for 4 days',

Before he started working on NW making this as relevant as **** pie on sundays.

there's the recent one with Olafsson & Betty where they should absolute lack of sense by allowing a thread started by a troll to escalate beyond one page & even urged VirginMary on and Olafsson said effectively that they were seperate from TW so could do what they wanted.

Not exactly. He said that neither FSE nor TW have any control over who gets banned or not (from servers ) since its the administrators of the community who hand out bans (in reference to Betty wanting her cd keys unbanned) and Olafson had no power to ban on forum. He did however say Goker wasn't Taleworlds and that Taleworlds wasn't involved. In any case Betty has posted probably in excess of 50 - 100 threads with similar rants over the past year. After a while it gets a bit tiring and anyone can make a mistake of trying to get some ****s and giggles in over a constant nuisance.

Then we move on to the downvoting on ModDB where Vincenzo downvoted mod after mod & please, they were more than partly-responsible for the patching issue.

last time I heard it was one, now its mod after mod and from what I heard there was another party involved, but of course Vince is evil so I believe every **** drivel of gossip that floats around.

Instead of working with the WSE & modding guys, informing them of when there was going to be a patch & actually allowing them to be ready to work around it, each patch came out of the blue & disrupted every mod - why do you think both Vikingr & Deluge went standalone? They were screwed over by these patches again & again, hours of their work wasted because the 'over-communicating' FSE didn't communicate with them.

You mean the TW patches which are seperate from the NW patches? Well guess what half the time FSE doesn't even know when TW will patch. Why should FSE be responsible for TW's lack of communication?


In short they've made fools of themselves of their own willing & created the resentment against them. I'm very supportive of the mod teams of M&B, I'm grateful that they make the stuff they do so I can play it, but when they act like arrogant, childish idiots it's their own fault.

Perhaps its the result of having far flung **** thrown in your face day in and day ever since the NW announcement?
I could name you several other reasons from behind the scenes but I won't.

If you still think Vince is beyond reproach check this thread & his response - friendly & sincere isn't it? Full of support & encouragement for someone modding his teams work, wouldn't you agree?

He made that post this month on November 2012. Your asking him to give out something that a large part of the community hasn't given in return? There's a few other concerns that are weighing on his shoulders and the original OP didn't post in the correct topic in the first place. I've seen people hang on these forums for less. While I agree his response is far from satisfactory, given the current external and internal issues that are going on, I am not surprised.

I made a suggestion once, regarding sabre's & how they were held, pointing them at the enemy whilst charging - that sort of thing. I posted a screenshot from The Deluge to cite where it had already been done in Warband & thus could be done in NW. Post deleted. I then reposted it. Post deleted again. In the ensuing debacle they deleted posts left, right & centre to keep any criticism or any posts mentioning other mods or just those who might be linked to the aforementioned forum members off their threads. All of the posts were sensible posts & questioned why posts had been deleted.

Was this in the MM forums or NW? At the time of working on NW there was only the MM forum. In any case if your post got deleted then the mods must have "read" something that they deemed inappropriate. I am not arguing that they implemented all suggestions but that they rigorously read through most of them if not all of them when creating NW. 

I didn't have a problem with Vincenzo or his team prior to NW, but post its release they've just riled up me & other forum members with the way they've acted & posted.

Warning, written straight after getting out of bed so excuse any poor grammar or spellings.

That's understandable, but perhaps it gives you an indication on how they themselves feel every morning given that you've just quoted me saying that they faced resentment from day 1 and proceeded to lay out a full fledged history of all the times they pissed you off on a personal level directly or indirectly?  :???:

I guess in the end, since people will hold a grudge over rumors or petty **** that dates back to the days prior to NW I can imagine its a good idea to separate NW from TW and for them to go their own way and limit further interactions with the community. For my own part I've seen plenty of people make derogatory comments not only about FSE but also NW players themselves and while everyone has a reason, I can't say they are spectacularly good ones. 
 
 
The difference between donators and investors is that investors are legally garenteed to expect content.

Frankly if you donated to something on kickstarter etc, the person can quit the project for whatever reason and you wouldn;t be entitled to get your money back or take them to court over it.

 
Was this in the MM forums or NW? At the time of working on NW there was only the MM forum. In any case if your post got deleted then the mods must have "read" something that they deemed inappropriate. I am not arguing that they implemented all suggestions but that they rigorously read through most of them if not all of them when creating NW. 

This was several months back. It ties in directly to what Leofwine commented upon here:

rapier17 said:
It's their own fault for having appalling moderation skills. Handing out mutes to people who mention other mods in threads, immediate biased mutes to certain a forum member who, whilst having a bit of a 'past' with Vincenzo posted sensibly & on-topic in the NW suggestions thread, was muted. When one of that forum members friends weighed in he was muted too. The PMs between that chap & Vincenzo were... interesting to say the least & I wish I could post them.

The posts involved were most certainly not inflammatory. It was a case of **** moderation and an intense hatred. Hell; screenshots are available if you so request them of the post involved.

That's understandable, but perhaps it gives you an indication on how they themselves feel every morning given that you've just quoted me saying that they faced resentment from day 1 and proceeded to lay out a full fledged history of all the times they pissed you off on a personal level directly or indirectly?  :???:

On waking, the FSE team must take to the internet in a flurry of vitriol. Bah... Using the but they're under pressure excuse means jack-**** when one is a raging cock-ring in the face of public scrutiny. It takes nothing to be considerate for a few moments, anger and resentment seems to cloud the judgement of certain FSE members.

Not exactly. He said that neither FSE nor TW have any control over who gets banned or not (from servers ) since its the administrators of the community who hand out bans (in reference to Betty wanting her cd keys unbanned) and Olafson had no power to ban on forum. He did however say Goker wasn't Taleworlds and that Taleworlds wasn't involved. In any case Betty has posted probably in excess of 50 - 100 threads with similar rants over the past year. After a while it gets a bit tiring and anyone can make a mistake of trying to get some ****s and giggles in over a constant nuisance.

Wow. I didn't believe it possible to defend the FSE team with their most recent handling of bettythebomber///virginmary. The mistake in this was trying to get ****s and giggles out of something that is to be removed immediately. Encouragement, on part of the team, was and is a silly thing to do. I can understand and appreciate why you're so defensive of the FSE group; you've submitted work to their projects, that's cool.

I think it's probably best that the discussion is ended here on this point for everyone's sake, can't beat it too hard now.  :wink:



Kobrag said:
The difference between donators and investors is that investors are legally garenteed to expect content.

Frankly if you donated to something on kickstarter etc, the person can quit the project for whatever reason and you wouldn;t be entitled to get your money back or take them to court over it.

Good call.
 
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