From Warband to Bannerlord

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Silva

Recruit
Hello, i'm a player coming from many many many campaigns in Warband, got Bannerlord on the PS D1 and start playing like Warband, tournament and tournament and finally joined a Faction, the Sturgians, i fight many battle for them and then something just ruin the entire campaing, the god damned fief granting system, i was hoping it was like Warband, i mean, it was almost perfect so why fix what ain't broke? instead is something beyond stupid, at leas in Warband was intuitive, renown, friendship and number of fief possessed, now i am in a situation where a Lord, Vyldur, get EVERY SINGLE fief because, i discovered that later, never even think of it because is objectively dumb, of proximity, he got two castles near the borders with Khuzaits and from that point on he received every single fief from Ortongard to Odokh, he have 12 fiefs now, are you kidding me?! He is clan tier 4 like everyone else but he have negative relationship with all the other lord in the faction, in fact the only positive relationship he have in the faction is with me , he almost never participate to the war and yet he receive every fief conquered because of proximity? Even Raganvad can't outvote him, even if i vote for him, i wanted to start i Kingdom at this point like in Warband but i have 1 castle near Baltakhand and we are at a point where we can't wage war against anybody because both empire and Vlandia can steamroll us.
So i'm in a position where i can't start a Kingdom because all the fief i conquered was awarded to that moron, i can't wage war because Sturgia instadie against the remaining factions and my only options is to leave sturgia and join another faction, rebuild my influence and my relationships and hope i can get a decent Fief.

So from my perspective coming from Warband Bannerlord is really a delusion, the fight mechanics and graphics are pretty but the campaign mechanics are trash, i mean the proximity priority alone is beyond stupid.

Please tell me this mechanics are going to be fixed because right now they are unbearable for me

 
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Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
No one? Wow Thank you, this is a great community:mrgreen:
Yeah, it's a sinking ship like all communities, diseased and corrupted, death it's only release. But I'll tell you about how I make a faction.
This is how I make a kingdom and take the map.

1 You must be able to defeat other armies with minimal losses. I'm not getting into how to do that, but if you can't do this, just stay a vassal and play more. You will not be able to get other clans fast enough to help you, so you must be able to defend yourself, yourself.

2 When you are rank 4 pick a side of the map to make your faction, I like Odohk on the Khuzait side or Ostican in Vlandia. Just pick this mentally, regardless of what fief you own.

3 Assuming you are a vassal with an army, use your clan mate army to pick up any useful troops you may have in a garrison, release your armies (not disbanding the parties!), leave kingdom and talk to your governor in a fief you own to make a faction immediately, then re-summon your parties to an army with you. Now beat up your old faction to gain influence in you own name and pass policies to raise loyalty and security, you will need these, do it ASAP. Other policies that buff your party size too. Keep this up until you old faction want to make peace for a good deal, paying or receiving low payment will last longer then a large payment.

4 Go to the area/faction you actually want to start your faction and attack them (this may be the same as you broke away from), pass the policies if you didn't already. Beat their armies, take a fief, do it again to the nearest fief, you should be able to protect several fiefs near each other. If you weren't a vassal now is also when you would make a faction with your governor and also you need to make some clan parties and fill them. Just keep racking up influence then when you have 500, you can turn a wanderer into a new vassal! You want to do this every 500 influence for the rest of the game! You can also recruit normal clans if it's convenient but I have completed the game several times with only wanderer-vassal clans. I'm goin to post a separate pasta of mine regarding recruiting clans and making them from vassals.
Recruiting/making clans. They (Clans)consider several things in order of importance:

1: Their own fiefs and finances, no fief = easy to get, less money they have, the easier too. Clans with a fief are very expensive (like 1m-2m) sometimes and only bring thier fief if you're at war with thier faction

2: Power situation of thier faction versus yours. When their faction is ****'d and you're is okay, they are easier to get. The power is the field parties + garrisons (not militia), the more fiefs and clans (parties) your faction has the more attractive you are!

3: Thier relation to their ruler and thier relation to you. If they like their king they are hard (expensive) to get and more likely to flip flop back to that faction later, but if they don't like them but have a good relation to you, they are easier and will stay.

When a lord flat out refuses you it means the hypothetical amount of money they would want to turn is just too great compared to what you posses, the devs did this so you don't waste your time on the persuasion dialogue only to not be able to get them anyways.

SO go after those poor home less clans (make some too by taking thier fiefs!) , defeat them and release after battle for +relations, hire some merc clans and you'll be getting vassals in not time (maybe...)! The more you have the easier it is to get more because you power goes up! *Up to a point, at some point when you have 20+ clans it becomes harder or impossible to recruit more normal clans. You can however keep making clans from wanderers.*
Just to be clear, you cannot compensate for them having a fief or you faction being much weaker then theirs's just by having high relations. A lot of people assume so, but it isn't so. It will help for sure but they need to be poor, scared and preferably mad at king too!

You can just make clans out of wanderers now, costs 500 influence, 20k and 1 fief, you must be the ruler then talk to a wanderer in your clan (not family) and say "I want to reward you" If they're in default gear or you remove their gear they spawn in lords gear matching their culture. There's no reason to bother with normal clans now unless you just can, like you have tunz of money and good relations and run into a clan leader and they will join you.

I will use up all of my fief to make wanderers so that "the game" will put me on the ballot for more, so I can repeat this as the faction expands. If you retain to many you will not be on the ballot anymore. I get more then enough money from all the endless fighting, I don't need fief incomes.

A note on *Charm* skill: Charm and some of it's perks (Natural Leader) (Meaningful favors OR forgivable grievances ) can help you get through the dialogue game easier, however it does not effect the clan leader giving you the chance to persuade them or not. That is determined by the stuff I talked about in the first 3 parts.
 
No one? Wow Thank you, this is a great community:mrgreen:

Well, you wrote an incomprehensible wall of text full of complaints and a vaguely worded question at the end.
There really isn't much to work with for us, other than to say: Read the forums. Your questions have been asked many, many times before.
 

roadworker

Recruit
absolutely agree this is an issue. it feels like the fief granting system is not finished in development, like its just a placeholder. warband was much more sensible, with the only irrationality being how bad tempered lords quickly got thrown under the bus and became a scapegoat for exiling, decreasing the relation with everyone in the kingdom, until the king became the only superpower owning all fiefs. could at the very least have trusted the angry guys with villages that they cant take with them, which is no longer an option in bannerlord

in bannerlord, the fief granting is entirely border related, no emphasis on who deserves it most, who has the least, who is the most trusted, who is most popular, and (most importantly) who has their current fiefs cuddled so well inbetween many other safe fiefs that they are ready to defend something newly exposed without the fear of cutting costs and removing garrison in their old ones. there are so many other better candidates who can do wonders for a new vulnerable fief than just granting it to the same clan leader who cant possibly juggle that kind of responsibility and expense. also it looks stupid, one clans banner flying everywhere on the frontline
 
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Silva

Recruit
Yeah, it's a sinking ship like all communities, diseased and corrupted, death it's only release. But I'll tell you about how I make a faction.
This is how I make a kingdom and take the map.

1 You must be able to defeat other armies with minimal losses. I'm not getting into how to do that, but if you can't do this, just stay a vassal and play more. You will not be able to get other clans fast enough to help you, so you must be able to defend yourself, yourself.

2 When you are rank 4 pick a side of the map to make your faction, I like Odohk on the Khuzait side or Ostican in Vlandia. Just pick this mentally, regardless of what fief you own.

3 Assuming you are a vassal with an army, use your clan mate army to pick up any useful troops you may have in a garrison, release your armies (not disbanding the parties!), leave kingdom and talk to your governor in a fief you own to make a faction immediately, then re-summon your parties to an army with you. Now beat up your old faction to gain influence in you own name and pass policies to raise loyalty and security, you will need these, do it ASAP. Other policies that buff your party size too. Keep this up until you old faction want to make peace for a good deal, paying or receiving low payment will last longer then a large payment.

4 Go to the area/faction you actually want to start your faction and attack them (this may be the same as you broke away from), pass the policies if you didn't already. Beat their armies, take a fief, do it again to the nearest fief, you should be able to protect several fiefs near each other. If you weren't a vassal now is also when you would make a faction with your governor and also you need to make some clan parties and fill them. Just keep racking up influence then when you have 500, you can turn a wanderer into a new vassal! You want to do this every 500 influence for the rest of the game! You can also recruit normal clans if it's convenient but I have completed the game several times with only wanderer-vassal clans. I'm goin to post a separate pasta of mine regarding recruiting clans and making them from vassals.
Recruiting/making clans. They (Clans)consider several things in order of importance:

1: Their own fiefs and finances, no fief = easy to get, less money they have, the easier too. Clans with a fief are very expensive (like 1m-2m) sometimes and only bring thier fief if you're at war with thier faction

2: Power situation of thier faction versus yours. When their faction is ****'d and you're is okay, they are easier to get. The power is the field parties + garrisons (not militia), the more fiefs and clans (parties) your faction has the more attractive you are!

3: Thier relation to their ruler and thier relation to you. If they like their king they are hard (expensive) to get and more likely to flip flop back to that faction later, but if they don't like them but have a good relation to you, they are easier and will stay.

When a lord flat out refuses you it means the hypothetical amount of money they would want to turn is just too great compared to what you posses, the devs did this so you don't waste your time on the persuasion dialogue only to not be able to get them anyways.

SO go after those poor home less clans (make some too by taking thier fiefs!) , defeat them and release after battle for +relations, hire some merc clans and you'll be getting vassals in not time (maybe...)! The more you have the easier it is to get more because you power goes up! *Up to a point, at some point when you have 20+ clans it becomes harder or impossible to recruit more normal clans. You can however keep making clans from wanderers.*
Just to be clear, you cannot compensate for them having a fief or you faction being much weaker then theirs's just by having high relations. A lot of people assume so, but it isn't so. It will help for sure but they need to be poor, scared and preferably mad at king too!

You can just make clans out of wanderers now, costs 500 influence, 20k and 1 fief, you must be the ruler then talk to a wanderer in your clan (not family) and say "I want to reward you" If they're in default gear or you remove their gear they spawn in lords gear matching their culture. There's no reason to bother with normal clans now unless you just can, like you have tunz of money and good relations and run into a clan leader and they will join you.

I will use up all of my fief to make wanderers so that "the game" will put me on the ballot for more, so I can repeat this as the faction expands. If you retain to many you will not be on the ballot anymore. I get more then enough money from all the endless fighting, I don't need fief incomes.

A note on *Charm* skill: Charm and some of it's perks (Natural Leader) (Meaningful favors OR forgivable grievances ) can help you get through the dialogue game easier, however it does not effect the clan leader giving you the chance to persuade them or not. That is determined by the stuff I talked about in the first 3 parts.
A kind one! Thank you for the tips! never thought someone will ever replyXD
absolutely agree this is an issue. it feels like the fief granting system is not finished in development, like its just a placeholder. warband was much more sensible, with the only irrationality being how bad tempered lords quickly got thrown under the bus and became a scapegoat for exiling, decreasing the relation with everyone in the kingdom, until the king became the only superpower owning all fiefs. could at the very least have trusted the angry guys with villages that they cant take with them, which is no longer an option in bannerlord

in bannerlord, the fief granting is entirely border related, no emphasis on who deserves it most, who has the least, who is the most trusted, who is most popular, and (most importantly) who has their current fiefs cuddled so well inbetween many other safe fiefs that they are ready to defend something newly exposed without the fear of cutting costs and removing garrison in their old ones. there are so many other better candidates who can do wonders for a new vulnerable fief than just granting it to the same clan leader who cant possibly juggle that kind of responsibility and expense. also it looks stupid, one clans banner flying everywhere on the frontline
Unfortunately border dominate the fief granting vote, it makes absolutely no sense but once a lord get the first one or two fief in a specific location of the map the road is close for everyone else.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
Unfortunately border dominate the fief granting vote, it makes absolutely no sense but once a lord get the first one or two fief in a specific location of the map the road is close for everyone else.
It is the most recent iteration and yes it is a bit excessive. It can work in you favor too though, though again, potentially excessively to the point where you, as a vassal, can claim basically an entire faction worth of fiefs.
 
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Silva

Recruit
It is the most recent iteration and yes it is a bit excessive. I can work in you favor too though, though again, potentially excessively to the point where you, as a vassal, can claim basically an entire faction worth of fiefs.
Not always the AI seems to discriminate between you and itself, during my last campaign i start a conquest of 4 fiefs on my borders, they give me one then they vote only the three Clan with less fiefs, load the saving, start a conquest on the other side of my faction to prove my theory, result: the guy on that border got 8 fiefs in a row with stunning percentages, so the border is all good when is the AI, in that case an AI lord can get even 10 fiefs, a player can have one and share the rest with the other clans, go figure XD
All of that with 100 relationship with everyone.
 

roadworker

Recruit
yes the excessive fief granting to one or two clans only stops when a third comes in with nothing
no fief guy > closest guy > everyone else (never). the "closest" and "everyone else" should be swapped. there is no strategy in having the same clan in all its limits guard more than one fief at the frontline. and there is no strategy in clans owning one fief at the center of the faction or border of the map edge guarding their fief against zero threats, they are ready to guard elsewhere

i would go as far as to say that the voting system in general is an unfinished placeholder. there is no real participation or dynamic to voting, mostly just boils down to who you want to increase relationships with. when you are always the last vote there is no incentive to vote against the 100% even if you wanted to, in general just to anything where you cant reach a higher percentage or where the ruler votes against you. you know it makes no difference and you mostly only lose relations with a clan or look like a naive fool, as if your vote matters

i feel like the charm skill could play a much larger role if the player and ai alike can make manipulations before a vote starts, and actually be able to make decisions on who should be the candidates in the first place instead of it being a mostly preset option. the candidate voting can be based on rationality, and voting for candidates can be based on clan leader traits. calculating = clans who are ready to defend, merciful = clans with least fiefs, valor = clans with most renown (feel like renown decay and tier loss should be a thing too), loyal = clans with best relations to other clans within the faction, generous = clans with most war activity, something like that. and have the bad traits do bad decisions, like voting for clans bordering the new fief xd that could be the tendency of the impulsive trait, where the close-fisted will always vote for themselves if possible or not vote at all, cautious will also abstain from voting unless they are manipulated enough by those they trust. deceitful i think will just have a tendency to pretend like they agree with your manipulation but then do a backstab and will ignore relations the most. you never know where you have them. the game can also alter your trait points depending on how you respond to manipulation and who you vote for

the biggest influence to voting outcome should of course be the rulers traits and their behavior should differ to the other clan leaders now that they are in power. for example, i dont think an impulsive ruler should just pick whoever is closest to the border, their impulsiveness could be reflected better, like having no care for relations, renown, or other voters decisions, they wont fear wasting a ton of influence just to be right for no good reason. and close fisted rulers should have a little more complex thinking than just giving all fiefs to themselves, although it will definitely be a pattern to their rule. deceitful rulers will be ready to go the warband lane and treat clans with less than good relations like trash, even if it means destroying the good relations in the process

there should be tendencies that overlap clan leaders decisions as well, especially for good traits. clans should above all prioritize looking for new, better prospects to vote for if their previous candidates are rewarded enough or fail to keep their rewards after peace (should be no difference if they gained it and lost it during the same war). clans owning frontline fiefs should have more intuition for creating an army with the sole purpose of defending their own fiefs, and can either disperse the army or go on an offensive after. if they dont have enough influence to do that then they are not ready to guard a frontline fief, and should be considered a weak candidate until they are better prepared

in warband where lords had preset but more hidden personalities, their personality altered how they voted, too. all points in the direction that traits in bannerlord were meant to sway how a clan makes their vote, but its just not yet been implemented along with a proper voting system. it has not been for at least two years now. i really hope its still on the devs to-do list. the current system is devoid of personality and intuition. the only interesting part about this game should not be the large battles alone, there is so much more that they can add engagement to
 
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Bluko88

Sergeant
So from my perspective coming from Warband Bannerlord is really a delusion, the fight mechanics and graphics are pretty but the campaign mechanics are trash, i mean the proximity priority alone is beyond stupid.
Hey you figured it out, also it only gets more stupid. The situation you described is a bit unusual, usually one clan doesn't just get all the fiefs in my experience, but as others have mentioned I think proximity matters a lot more now (yeah that's smart).

Of course if there were civil war mechanics that would break up monotony, i.e. Clan gets too big/powerful forms its own kingdom. Woops shouldn't have given them all the fiefs.

Really fief decisions should be like:

No fiefs > least fiefs > clan tier & # of clan members

Obviously you want every clan to own a fief, otherwise no point in being a Kingdom. Then you would want to evenly assign fiefs so one clan doesn't end up super dominant. And if fief assignment is ever even then the highest ranking clan (seniority) with most members would get a fief next. I mean really it should be more then that even, but any form of politics is completely beyond TW's ability/inclination I'd say.


Yep pretty much all campaign map mechanics are trash. Only redeeming thing about game is the in-game battles themselves, and even there still a lot of problems. Pretty sure that's what keeps everyone playing Bannerlord. Guarantee about 95% of PC audience is using mods to keep the game afloat as it were.

Please tell me this mechanics are going to be fixed because right now they are unbearable for me
BLIi8a.gif


Here's what I expect in next year and what TW has more or less said: more voice over lines, player can take over hideouts/gangs for income (basically illegal workshops), and some basic diplomacy. Oh and maybe we'll get weather in scenes like rain (that highly advance feature in Warband)

Of course (besides voice over) you can more or less mod all that in right now...

Basically what I'm trying to say is set your expectations to absolute 0. Or find better games to play/obsess over. Or wait for overhaul mods in the next year or two that will likely completely eclipse Bannerlord as a game (if they aren't already)
 

roadworker

Recruit
Hey you figured it out, also it only gets more stupid. The situation you described is a bit unusual, usually one clan doesn't just get all the fiefs in my experience, but as others have mentioned I think proximity matters a lot more now (yeah that's smart).

Of course if there were civil war mechanics that would break up monotony, i.e. Clan gets too big/powerful forms its own kingdom. Woops shouldn't have given them all the fiefs.

Really fief decisions should be like:

No fiefs > least fiefs > clan tier & # of clan members

Obviously you want every clan to own a fief, otherwise no point in being a Kingdom. Then you would want to evenly assign fiefs so one clan doesn't end up super dominant. And if fief assignment is ever even then the highest ranking clan (seniority) with most members would get a fief next. I mean really it should be more then that even, but any form of politics is completely beyond TW's ability/inclination I'd say.


Yep pretty much all campaign map mechanics are trash. Only redeeming thing about game is the in-game battles themselves, and even there still a lot of problems. Pretty sure that's what keeps everyone playing Bannerlord. Guarantee about 95% of PC audience is using mods to keep the game afloat as it were.


BLIi8a.gif


Here's what I expect in next year and what TW has more or less said: more voice over lines, player can take over hideouts/gangs for income (basically illegal workshops), and some basic diplomacy. Oh and maybe we'll get weather in scenes like rain (that highly advance feature in Warband)

Of course (besides voice over) you can more or less mod all that in right now...

Basically what I'm trying to say is set your expectations to absolute 0. Or find better games to play/obsess over. Or wait for overhaul mods in the next year or two that will likely completely eclipse Bannerlord as a game (if they aren't already)
i did not even realize that rainy weather is missing in bannerlord, only seen snow. rain during battles is a good way to create an ominous atmosphere

no offense to the modders, but its really disappointing that development suddenly paused in favor of modding. mods should not outdo vanilla experience, and they should not be necessary to enjoy the game. talesworld promised to not stop development until the game was satisfactory, but it looks like having modders do the rest will be the cheapest way to reach that goal, which absolutely sucks for me who prefers the "intended" experience. but not a lackluster unfinished kind, then i feel ripped off no matter how many good mods out there will fix it. i didnt pay the modders to do what is the developers job and i dont want to encourage this cheap path in the game industry. i dont want to have to stand in a situation where i gift the game to a friend and then have to explain them what mods to download to fix it first before playing

i am still waiting for really basic but frustrating bug fixes other than fixing ai combat and politics. something as simple as implementing father to son inheritance of culture instead of mother influencing both. dont know what to say if they cant even bother fixing that mistake before wrapping up. i feel discouraged from playing because of kingdoms drowning in other cultures when every clan decides to marry daughters from other factions, and this bug being ignored for so long. clearly there is some tactic to marrying different cultures into your clan, but this bug spoils it. it would have no big impact if sons stayed the same as fathers culture when all sons stay in their clans and are prioritized as leaders, having one odd woman clan leader of another culture would not hurt either, it would just create something alternative and interesting you rarely see. and daughters can be useful as governors with their culture variety or being interesting warriors adding extra commander skills specializing in other weapons outside of the faction. but not both daughters and sons, its almost gamebreaking when the ai cannot realize the bug is there. one single fertile foreign daughter is enough to steer the next clans entire generation into a foreign culture. without the bug the cross culture marriage would feel tactical, not dooming to cultural roleplay
 
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Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
I am just going to put it out there. Fiefdistribution used to be an (almost) socialist affair with fiefs being distributed more or less fairly between all your vassals. That was actually a royal pain to play with.

As it is now, it is much much simpler to get a few culturally appropriate vassals that can cover an entire faction. So, I have personally found that rapid conquest is a much simpler and faster process now; though, there is a caveat here that I might simply be overfussing about the cultural penalty to begin with.
 

roadworker

Recruit
I am just going to put it out there. Fiefdistribution used to be an (almost) socialist affair with fiefs being distributed more or less fairly between all your vassals. That was actually a royal pain to play with.

As it is now, it is much much simpler to get a few culturally appropriate vassals that can cover an entire faction. So, I have personally found that rapid conquest is a much simpler and faster process now; though, there is a caveat here that I might simply be overfussing about the cultural penalty to begin with.
i dont know if there was ever fair distribution in bannerlord since majority of ea the ai was broke and khuzaits were too fast on the world map and conquered everything, none of the features back then and how they worked could be trusted. bankruptcy for different reasons in clans was also a major issue for a long time. there was also a large difference from warband where there was no economy management for lords, and that more fiefs = larger party. when the buggy relations started kicking in where the king would become the only member left in a kingdom, he would easily slug around with 600-700 troops in his party, no regards for recruitment, party size limit, food consumption, or wages, which only affected the player in the first place, just because he owned all fiefs in his kingdom

in bannerlord the ai has to manage economy, party size, and food consumption. having to protect several fiefs with maxed garrison costs more than it pays out, especially when you are a single clan stretched out to defend raids on every owned fief. for a clan owning a fief safely lodged between other fiefs, there is no risk for them to cut costs there, removing garrison to get the budget for protecting a new vulnerable fief. the ai will also have to be programmed to think this way if they are not already. again, if it worked like equal distribution in the early access, there could be many reasons for why it was less effective that could have had nothing to do with the intended strategics behind it, or even faulty or lack of programming directly working against it

if one clan has to manage several fiefs on the frontline, it is going to make those fiefs weak targets. their budget does not allow them to properly garrison so many fiefs. its not beneficial for the kingdom to tunnel vision candidates down to the closest bordering clan, and from a gameplay perspective its also extremely boring. it does not have to play out in a socialist way where everything is so equal, neither did it in warband where a little bad relation with the king would make him ignore the lord entirely

for bannerlord there are at least traits that could heavily influence the voting pattern of clan leaders when there are no obvious candidates. what the game needs are dynamic, fluctuating politics and voting that are engaging to take part in, not painfully obvious or even harmful outcomes. well, harmful outcomes are fine if they can at least be contributed to bad traits within the kingdom, not some programming fault, which this feels like. or considering how features changed around since ea, it feels more like a placeholder like the other swapped out and improved features. but this one was left in and in its state its not something that can be improved, it has to change. at the very least with a socialist fundament there is room for improvement and adding different factors, but what can you do with this system where a single clan or a lot of clan migration is favored? its more fundamentally broke, exploitative and economically unbalanced than the repetitive socialist alternative. either way, the politics in the game are a far cry from warband even with its own major flaws, and would expect a lot more from an innovative sequel with its current high pricetag
 
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