Friendly fire melee - love it!

[kingofnoobia]

That's why it should be a server option, so that people who have no teamwork skill or tactics can can still have fun in team games.

But perhaps you just don't appreciate the extra depth in teamwork tactics this adds to melee fights between teams.

Remember, position first, fight later. Individual skill is only important once you have the correct positioning which comes from teamwork skill.

I agree with Berserker, ares, you dodged the point. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of not having the complete control of your sword in-game as you have irl. And I don't think you would actually hurt your friends too much, I think you would more likely stop your attacks in time and do everything to avoid hitting your friends, no matter what danger, resulting in crappy swordsmanship, yes, but not in wounded friends. The sword 'bouncing' off teammates seems a good solution already. Other than that, in formations people mostly (not always, I know that, but at least quite often) used shorter stabbing swords I think, and would usually be stabbing almost all the time, but irl they can stab in many directions and from many angles. This is impossible in the game, and that's for the best, it would be really hard if I had to recognize and manually block 4 different stabs.

Berserker simply meant you do not have all the options to avoid hitting your teammates and still fight efficiently in-game.

Perhaps friendly fire would be playable if the game automatically disables horizontal swings for you (client option) when there are friends within the horizontal striking range.

I do not like the two different stabs, overhead is fine. Just don't use a spear then, swords do fine with overhead and stab.

 

[Rhade]

Swarming happens IRL.  At least they can't grab you, haul you down, and shove a rondel through your greathelm.  If you are alone against three guys you are at a disadvantage make no mistake.  Making this change would make naked guys running into groups swinging a greatsword like a psycho an effective tactic.  The lone fighter has the advantage of a fast backpedal.  Use it and put your opponents in each other's way.  There is no way to control the rediculously wide horizontal swings.  And the overhead slash is too slow to be useful.  That leaves one useful attack for close quarters which kinda makes blocking simple. 
Don't run in alone it isn't that hard to avoid.

I didn't cite goddamn lions Ares did.  And his example actually proved my point rather than his.

I really think you guys should abandon the "it happens in real life" argument, because if you really want to go down that road, people with arrows in their chests don't continue to fight at full capacity, people don't take chops from 2h swords and keep going, and you don't respawn.

This is a *game*. A realistic game, and I enjoy it because of it, but you have to yield 100% realism to gameplay at times, and I don't think that because "swarming happens IRL" it should be a regular occurrence in game.

Use positioning, and hope your allies aren't morons. This adds more depth to gameplay.

I know you didn't cite the lions. It was more mocking both of your attempts to compare WB to real life so intensely.

 

[Rhade]

That's why it should be a server option, so that people who have no teamwork skill or tactics can can still have fun in team games.

But perhaps you just don't appreciate the extra depth in teamwork tactics this adds to melee fights between teams.

Remember, position first, fight later. Individual skill is only important once you have the correct positioning which comes from teamwork skill.

I agree with Berserker, ares, you dodged the point. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of not having the complete control of your sword in-game as you have irl. And I don't think you would actually hurt your friends too much, I think you would more likely stop your attacks in time and do everything to avoid hitting your friends, no matter what danger, resulting in crappy swordsmanship, yes, but not in wounded friends. The sword 'bouncing' off teammates seems a good solution already. Other than that, in formations people mostly (not always, I know that, but at least quite often) used shorter stabbing swords I think, and would usually be stabbing almost all the time, but irl they can stab in many directions and from many angles. This is impossible in the game, and that's for the best, it would be really hard if I had to recognize and manually block 4 different stabs.

Berserker simply meant you do not have all the options to avoid hitting your teammates and still fight efficiently in-game.

Perhaps friendly fire would be playable if the game automatically disables horizontal swings for you (client option) when there are friends within the horizontal striking range.

I do not like the two different stabs, overhead is fine. Just don't use a spear then, swords do fine with overhead and stab.

There's sufficient swing control as is, to allow this mechanic.

I know, I know, you can't swing like a crazed maniac and click click click click anymore, regardless of your surroundings.

 

[Yellonet]

It's good in principle that FF is on for melee too, but you really shouldn't die yourself, that makes no sense.
Getting -2 or -3 or something on your kill score would be better.
We have to assume that players kill friendlies accidentally, but if they do it willingly just kick them instead.

 

[Daeran]

I think the half damage for you/half for your friend is the good way for friendly fire. And Yes make melee FF a server option, it's a lot of fun.

 

[Slawomir of Aaarrghh]

Wow, I didn't even know that something like this was in the newest patch. Awesome thing! This should for sure stay, at least as a server option. No more mindless 2-hander spamming in groups!

 

[Kallor]

This should be a server option, sometimes I just want to log in and have fun, not caring that, I might swing through a team mate who got close to me as we moved in on an opponent.

Sometimes you gotta kill realism for the sake of gameplay, this is one of those times.

 

[lighthaze]

The more I think about it, the more I love it. It really gives the game so much more tactic. Imagine the following:

Last patch one person could defend a door, yes. But sooner or later he would just be zerged down, because 10 people are hacking at his shield. As it is now, only one or two attackers can hit him, the rest is standing in the background (or they have spears, which imho get a huge tactical plus). Yes, that might be a terrible situation for attackers, but it's realistic. So I like it.

 

[Phallas]

In darkfall (MMORPG) You can melee you teammates, So instead of people attacking horizontally they change too vertical so they do not hit team mates.

Worst thing is when you aim at a enemy and instead you hit your friend chasing him.
Worst thing is when your freind kills the enemy and the shot continues to your friend
Worst thing is when horsemen circle an enemy they pop in and out of your zoomed view and cause Reflective fire, due to thier speed you cannot predict when they will pop in.

Should I get Reflective fire when shooting projectile?  After all bullets are shot at the speed of sound

I am i too blame if someone intercepts my arrow, with their fast ass horse in mid flight?

 

[ares007]

I don't think you guys understand the point I'm trying to make. You can make up all kinds of dainty theories about what would or wouldn't happen, but it all falls apart when sword meets sword. That's my point. Unless you've been in real close quarters life-or-death combat or trained for it, you really don't have a clue. People might or might not be likely to wound their comrades in massive melee fights, but to authoritatively state that one or the other would happen is quite presumptuous.

so it comes down to this: make it a server option! Why not? Tons of people like it!

I really don't understand how it takes away from team play either.

In darkfall (MMORPG) You can melee you teammates, So instead of people attacking horizontally they change too vertical so they do not hit team mates.

this. Try to work together with your teammates to do different vertical attacks. One person stabs, the other person overhead attacks.

Also, with small groups of people, the key tactic is to attack from two sides, not to stand close to each other. Spreading out means that the enemy has more angles to defend.

 

[test]

This is one of the best changes to happen to Mount & Blade yet.  I think this should be on by default, even in single player.  It makes me wonder why this wasn't tested much earlier.

Melee FF has made several aspects of gameplay particularly amazing:

-Zerging isn't as effective.  Good formations and player spreads now actually have a use!  No more swing through your friends to reach a single player.

-Horse gameplay requires much more skill and tact.  No more retarded behavior like couching through your own troops.  Horse formations and real cavalry tactics are now important, rather than a jumbled tangle with friendly players colliding off each other.  Cavalry wedges anyone?

 

[Jericho]

I think melee ff should stay. I was surprised the first time it happened to me when a TM stepped in front of me as I was about to couch lance an opponent. It was funny to see that I couched lance myself, but since then I take greater care and I will pull back my lance attack at the last second whenever a TM comes too close to my intended target.

Although this has been called a *bug*, it is actually a workable bug, besides it is a fine line between a *bug* and a *feature*.  Although perhaps in the interest of compromise it would be best to have the damage as only half as opposed to full.

Btw,
Those who keep harping about realism are probably not aware that a swarming mob is more of a hindrance to each other than to the person they are trying to swarm. About 26 years ago in real life I was swarmed by several a$$holes and the only thing that allowed me to survive the encounter with only some major contusions was the fact that they had kept getting into each other’s way more than they were able to land any incapacitating hits on me. – I think this current bug/feature captures the very essence of the possible complications of mob melee.

 

[Cwvym]

I was prepared to hate it...

But it grows on ya. Quite fun!

 

[Vermin]

I usually play archer so this bug actually gives me a good feeling. Finally I'm not the only one who suffers from FF 
Maybe they should make this a serveroption, for those who really do not like it and want to have some fun.

 

[Rithrin]

Here is the problem that some people don't seem to understand:

Its four vs one.
The four line up and advance as a unit towards the one.
The four ready all vertical attacks so as to not hit each other.
The one blocks up and the magical block forcefield makes the one immune to the four's attacks.

Yes, realistically, the answer to fighting in a formation is to not do broad 180 degree arc swings with giant weapons. But in real life, people can stab from more than one angle. Or chop from more than one angle as well. In Mount & Blade, this just isn't possible. You can fend off a veritable army of would-be stabbers just by holding down block. Realistically, with four separate opponents trying to stab you at once it is literally impossible to perfectly block every one of them as one may try for the chest, another the arm, another the gut, and another the neck - four unique targets. Before this melee friendly fire thing happened, the four men from the example would be free to choose from the entire range of attack directions, simulating what immense skill would be required of the defender in order to survive the assault.

As a summary: Real life rewarded disciplined troops who coordinated attacks, in Warband this actually just makes their attacks easier to block.

The proponents of this melee friendly fire system (With Warband controls in the current state they are) just seem like players who are peeved at not being able to solo an entire squad of players at once. This is already a fairly common occurrence as it is and those players certainly do have skill, it does not need to be made any easier.

 

[Vermin]

Actually the one on the left should swing left while the one on the right makes a swing from the right. Of the two in the middle one should thrust with a spear while the other makes an overhead attack.

 

[Rithrin]

First off, the two players doing the left and right swings would not fare well in Warband, as their swings might very well hit their allies with a 180+ degree swing - Something that is even completely outside the player's control if ping is over 50.

Second, this sort of internal teamwork requires voice communication of some sort or extensive training and planning prematch not available to someone outside of a clan.

Third, using Warband's current control scheme this is the equivalent micromanagement to telling your three mates in a bar brawl to specifically stab for the kidney, lung, and wrist respectively.

 

[ares007]

Well, if at least two of the guys storming the loner have half a brain, they'll realize that the one guy can block everything from the same direction. Then they will try to attack with different attacks. Even if they all think alike, after a few group attacks, at least someone will do an opposite attack and land.

You see, this is a team skill, not an individual skill. It is tactics. It helps to coordinate before hand, but it's not necessary. What is necessary is for at least one or two of the guys to have decent tactics and team skills. You can adapt and adjust your tactics on the fly if you have good team skills.

So what this new feature/bug does is separate the those who are only individually skilled from those who are both individually skilled and skilled in tactics and teamwork.

 

[Styo]

Armagan.... This is the best damn bug ever! Its is awesome. It now takes skill to kill your enemy with out tagging your own. No more spam spam Love the FF awesome. Not this game is going into the right direction.

 

[Guan_Chung]

I'm with Ares, this should be a server side option, but should stay as a feature.

I'm actually enjoying playing this game again with the inclusion of this.