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Forming Own Kingdom

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Exerellion

Recruit
Loving this mod so far, but I have a bit of a noob question: How do I start my own kingdom? I want to re-enact Braveheart but the king never goes to war, unfortunately. So I need to get more fiefs somehow (which I can't do if we're not at war) and then overthrow the king. How do you guys do it. I've never had my own kingdom even in Native so I need a little help here.

EDIT: Wait, no never mind. What I mean is, what is the best way of forming my own kingdom in 1257AD? Should I be a vassal first and then rebel or should I just get a massive merc army and take a castle?
 

Leaf

Sergeant at Arms
I am under the impression after lot of games - that the best way, and the hardest way is .

Merc Army take a castle , but best take a city.  But by 12 weeks we will lose everything. ( if you do not prepare, all round declaration of wars , waves after waves of enemy lord etc. )


But it is not so simple. You have to prepare. And when i say this, i mean insane preparation.
Not necessary in this order :  get maximum relation with all the lords of all the faction next to your target settlement. ( you future kingdom )
15 lords x 3 faction at around 100 relationship.
Get all companions, 29 companions at around 31 level each  with 4 point in training each.
Improve relationship with town and villages that will be your recruitment base.
Get around 800.000 deniers in cash.
Get a wife.  ( to hold fest )
Get as many business as is profitable - to get around 4000 - 5000 denaries per week.  ( round 15 bushiness )
Get you right to rule at around 80 - 100  [ by developing regional manors around the land to full buildings,  around 60.000 denaris each invested ( 10 right to rule ) , or by becoming mercenary for 2 weeks
with a peace agreement between there enemy's ( for around 3 right to rule )

Get different small lords of small faction or reduced factions - to defect to you , by having good persuasion skill and by having lot of good relationship with them [ aim for 60 - 100 ]. [ when you will establish your kingdom ]
Have big army , strong army of around 150 of high class troops + 29 companions, close in time to your attack date  recruited.

Wait for a your target faction to be engaged in wars , and have the army's gone or fighting hard in distant land.
Wait for the best time and  strike.  Consolidate your position. Enlarge as much as possible [ 1 town and 2-3 castles ] in a rapid campaign .Hope that landless lords will join you for your unassigned settlements.

Send one companion with high persuasion skill to sue for peace.

Pump money in army , to last you around 5 months - 800.000 could be ok.

If you manage to do that -> you can survive and have a stable kingdom which is the " End Game " .

Expect to do that around 700 days in game or more.


- get kingdom, expand very fast , hold off attacks , get lord to defect and have peace as soon as possible , have money to pay for  a large force to consolidate your position.

when you get around 3 -4 lords , 1 marshal and you army -> you can fight as a coordinated force and have the numbers to resist .

Chose religion wise - war can be started by inhabiting settlement of previous kingdoms or by religious differences.

It is the hardest part of the game to get it right - as you have to prepare for that day and can only be done in a late game.


http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,321534.0.html
some tips based around the same idee - are here.


[ the game is extremy brutal - and your preparation has to be absurd ]
[ right to rule around 100 and money around 800.000 are i belive - the most important and 100 relationship with faction leaders that are resposible with wars/peace . ]


 

nvphuong

Recruit
How can u get 29 companions ??? Please show me the way, i only have 6 Merc companions and 3 noble guys from my village
 

theputnz

Regular
WB
nvphuong said:
How can u get 29 companions ??? Please show me the way, i only have 6 Merc companions and 3 noble guys from my village

You can have 4x3 noble companions - to get them you must recruit them in different religion territories. For example you go to Baltic states and become a vassal of Lithuanian king - he gives you one village and there you will be able to recruit 3 pagan companions, then you can leave kingdom and become vassal of Scotland - there you will be able to recruit 3 catholic companions etc.

As for mercenary companions - I have heard (never done that) that you can exploit system by disbanding (or loosing in battle) companions and be able to recruit other companion with the same proffesion and after that ask previous companion to rejoin party.

Anyway I think that such exploit of having 30 man immortal army isn't very fun therefore usualy I'm using only 7-10 companions.
 

Lannis

Recruit
Sounds great so far! but do i keep my fiefs and manors here when I leave the kingdom to form my own?  what is the point of investing in those otherwise then?
 

xat

Sergeant
Depends on difficulty.
I play with childlish so I can roll with my cavalary roflstomping stuff, headcannoning some stuff that happened in my country later on.
But you need to be prepared. For example now I have HRE and hungary trying to chew me down, well I attacked hungary myself. That means you sometimes go 100-200 vs 2k. That usully means you have to play the system by for example spreading enemy at night by speaking to them and attacking few groups out of one big cluster, ninja style.
Once you get few fiefs and strong enough units its a good thing.

What you need is 15 RTR+ and good units. Then you can either steal some fiefs from weak factions, or rebel against your faction, but in the second case they will insta war you.
 

theputnz

Regular
WB
Lannis said:
Sounds great so far! but do i keep my fiefs and manors here when I leave the kingdom to form my own?  what is the point of investing in those otherwise then?

Well you can revolt against your current king - in that case you will keep your fiefs (altough you must be ready to defend them from your former kingdom).

xat said:
What you need is 15 RTR+ and good units.

When I was searching the topic I found, that minimum level of Right to Rule to not get attacked by everyone is 30.
 

xat

Sergeant
theputnz said:
Lannis said:
Sounds great so far! but do i keep my fiefs and manors here when I leave the kingdom to form my own?  what is the point of investing in those otherwise then?

Well you can revolt against your current king - in that case you will keep your fiefs (altough you must be ready to defend them from your former kingdom).

xat said:
What you need is 15 RTR+ and good units.
Might be 15, I remember I usually went with 20-25. But based on the fact that you get 15 for marrying, well you should in 1257 you don't. We can assume that the total minimum should be 15. Which seems to be right. If you are below that they can attack you without you being in a bad relationship with them.

When I was searching the topic I found, that minimum level of Right to Rule to not get attacked by everyone is 30.
 

BloodForBlood

Leaf's tips are indeed very useful and helped me set a plan to what I'm going to do in my current playthrough, but I'll add another useful tip to the preparations.
Has everyone forgot about the Manors? Just with one fully grown manor you can get a combined force of ~800+ soldiers, plus your own party which might add to ~1000. Never tried making my own Kingdom before in this particular mod, but when I will in my current playthrough, I will build a huge army out of my manor/s and use it to conquer my very first territories, as well as defend it from hostile enemy lords. As soon as peace is made, you can disband the army to avoid wages.
 

bakters

Knight
That was all good info here.  Anyway, I still have a question.  I don't know what is the exact procedure of getting noble companions.  From my search it seems that I have to:
1. Get a fief of some culture.
2. Develop it?  Some people say it's needed, but from some posts I get the feeling it's not?
3. Invite nobles to a hunt and speak to those who appear.

5 cultures * three companions is 15 noble companions.

So I'm not sure what are the exact requirements for this to work.  Is it viable early game in case you have lots of renown, or do you have to wait a bit with every batch of noble companions?  (I can get several hundreds renown in less than a week, in case it's needed.)

What I'm interested in (doesn't mean I will do it, just being interested) is taking over the map within the shortest possible time.  With a faction or without matters not, but I'd expect that being in control would eventually prove faster.

I did stuff like that in Native + Diplo, I'm not a new player, but I'm new to this mod.  Thanks for your help.

One more thing.  At the beginning I could keep every weapon I picked up from the battlefield.  Now it doesn't work any more.  I guess that it stops working when you reach a certain level?  So what is this level?  Does it work for horses, or only weapons?  I'm trying to form a plan for my early game.  I could try and replicate stuff easily and equip my companions without the need to search the map for items.  Maybe exploit it for money too, but that seems like a lot of work...
 

BloodForBlood

You don't need to develop the fief, from my experience.
I have picked up and kept weapons as late as level ~35 if I recall correctly. Maybe it's some kind of bug you're experiencing.
My new way to start early game is to win tournaments as early as possible. It's impossible to beat someone who's fully armed and charging at you with a lance and on horseback, not when playing fair at least. You can exploit the AI a bit by letting them hit a wall or a fence, then jumping and striking them in the back, most of the time the opponent will get stuck and you can kill him this way. Doesn't work in tournaments where the opponent isn't on horseback, and you yourself must be on foot. To get a decent bladed weapon at the start, try to find a small party of Fures (Looters) and use a ranged weapon while circling around them on horseback to kill most of them, and when they start fleeing search the dead bodies for a Falchion. Pick it up and you're good to go. This way you will soon be able to fully arm yourself in 60+ armor, thus allowing you to easily beat further tournaments and big bandit parties on your own to gain money, renown, weapon proficiency and EXP as you go.

 

bakters

Knight
Thanks.  I did try this personal looting thing several times already.  Initially it worked, now it does not.  I'm in my late teens, as far as Ch-level goes. 1257 version 1.03 on 1.143 (I like 1.143 better for SP).  It could be a bug or a "feature" which prevents some abuse.

Yes, I know how to solo big parties or win tournaments with starting character.  It took several tries before I figured it out, and those 0 damage hits got me a few times, but I can do it.  Early renown is not a problem.  Thanks for confirming that all you need is a fief.  Not looted probably, which will slow me down, but it's going to be a long run however you cut it.

 

Syle

Recruit
Hi,

I have a question about Pope's faction: how do i end a war with?
The issue is if Pope attacks your faction, even if you defend in siege your city/castle, engage battle with their troop will engage a war with all christan king.
I already have this problem with old version, now same with 1.11.

I can defend my kingdom (4-5 city and 7-8 castle scattered, like Pisa Raguse Verona StraBburg...), vassals are useless except for number to assault. But in defense we know the smart of IA!^^

So, i defeat all kingdoms and put in jail their lords (i change to 0% chance to escape after battle, me if i lose i can't escape, reciprocity...). Few kingdoms in war with others accept truce. Sancti one time agree for truce.
I finish half faction and hope total truce... No, sancti go on war again, dispite "truce delay". Mechanism are not enough rigid about diplomaty. In middle age words are law like treaties, no?
I defend one of my castle... All christian king are again at war with me.
Only France, wich that i have 6 relation, don't attack me. The différence between 6 and 0 is not huge to justify betrayed the truce, like i was"excommunicated".

In détails, i'm lvl 36, 3000 renow (due to battle again and again against marshall army), 99 right to rule.

Your préparation to be friends at 100 relation point with every one is interesting but don't resolve my problem. It's too late to resolve my vicious cercle. Any ideas, please?

Native recrutment.
All administrative in childish (wage, inefficiency, factory).
Ai battle good, Ai campagn good (the map change very fast), degat troop normal, degat hero easy.

Sorry for your eyes, i'm not english.
 

Valen

Recruit
I'm kind of in the same boat, one real annoyance with this game is that there isn't anywhere that states WHY these folks went to war with you.  With a few you can see to reclaim lost territories but their grievance really should be reported so you can have some idea of how to address it.   

I had a good relationship with the Pope, he crowned me and there was peace for at least a month, I didn't get the war spam at kingdom start.  Then out of nowhere the Pope declares war and I have no idea why.  I defeated him twice and let him go and on the third time I jailed him and forced a truce and then I noticed I'm at war with everyone practically and have no idea why.  I assumed it's because I'm at war with the Pope.  I'm still at war with him and my relationship is a +7. 

The other thing that strange is that lords come to your court to offer their services but it's like they choose to defect to your kingdom and their territories list as yours which I'm sure would piss off some Kingdoms even though you haven't fully accepted them yet.  I was wondering if this wasn't why some kingdoms declared war.  Either way I started dismissing them ASAP but I don't think they should be able to auto join your kingdom.

The other challenge with this game is finding compatible lords.  There's no interface to question them in advance you have to pick on the spot so I started saving first so I can revert after questioning them.  Even still though you don't know how they will react with your other lords.  For a while there it was dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.  Give one lord a fief piss off another.  However after defeating my starting kingdom for which I had good rep with the lords I freed them all and eventually they started to come to my kingdom offering their service.  In addition to having a good relationship to start I noticed that when I gave a fief to one, they all approved and actually gained relationship.  It appears if you can find the lords that were part of what ever kingdom you served and rebelled and conquered, they're all or at least many are compatible and like each other or at least that's been my experience with Crusader states.  Right now though I beginning to wonder what happens if you conquer Rome, can you become Pope....lol.
 
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