Formation system need a rework: infantry just can't fight properly

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Pejot

Knight at Arms
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New to Bannerlord. I played MnB Viking Conquest some.

I haven't got to really test on custom battles yet in Bannerlord but in order for shield wall to effectively work in Viking Conquest I think I had to order the shield wall, have it be at least 3 ranks(rows for you civilians:wink:) deep, and then give a "hold" command or something like that similar where my troops dont all immediately blob up the second the enemy hits their front rank. If I recall correctly if I didnt give that "hold" command or whatever it was they'd all blob up on one enemy if i recall correctly.

Is there a similar "hold position" type command in Bannerlord? Where your troops stay put in formation even when enemies are in their lines?
In Bannerlord they hold position until you order them to charge or go forward (two separate commands with separate function). There's no command regarding how many lines to form and if you order shieldwall they just use their shields and stand closer to eachother.
 

Hugo_Stiglitz

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In Bannerlord they hold position until you order them to charge or go forward (two separate commands with separate function). There's no command regarding how many lines to form and if you order shieldwall they just use their shields and stand closer to eachother.

You can determine how many ranks and direction they face by dropping and dragging the pointer when you tell them where to set up.

I swore there was a "hold ground" type command in Viking Conquest where only the troops nearest attacking infantry would counter attack. I was wondering about it earlier today as I noticed some of my infantry troops that i'd put in the shield wall breaking friendly ranks and running forward to initiate combat instead of standing in place in the shield wall. Or maybe shield wall automatically makes them hold ground and these troops were just glitching a bit? I cant recall it's been a while since I've played Viking Conquest.
 

Waybook

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So until this is fixed, it's better to use loose formation for melee infantry in a melee fight? Shield wall to protect from archers, loose formation to fight?

EDIT. Also, if I tell them to use loose formation, do they still block throwing weapons with shields?
 

Pejot

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So until this is fixed, it's better to use loose formation for melee infantry in a melee fight? Shield wall to protect from archers, loose formation to fight?
Right now i'm creating 2 melle groups and one is in sheildwall in front next behind them. When enemy reaches shieldwall i take second group and attack from the back. It's not always working especially when enemy is mostly cav but it's good against infantry.
 

Koshkasa

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That's like saying the Irish Potato famine invented communism bro. Yes, Profiteering is an aspect of Capitalism, just like starvation is an aspect of Communism. But they're aspects, not genisis.
That was merely a joke, and if you intended to academicaly disprove it and waste immense amounts of your personal time, I'm hereby relinquishing this claim for our schedules' sake
 

Aerouant

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So until this is fixed, it's better to use loose formation for melee infantry in a melee fight? Shield wall to protect from archers, loose formation to fight?

EDIT. Also, if I tell them to use loose formation, do they still block throwing weapons with shields?
You put a shield wall line 50 meters forward, shield wall only with units who have great shield , because elite units with small shield are useless in shield wall.
They are only here to take the arrows and block the masse never ask them to engage ennemy.
And you need at least a second line with spearmen, if you take a cavalry charge ask them to go in front of the shield wall or wherever the charge is of course. Or just use them as shock troops to flank the enemy .
Third line : bow/crossbow.
The recruits who are not yet spearmen or units with great shield you put them in a reserve line to flank enemy or protect bow / crossbow
And a few cavalry can be useful to charge enemy cavalry or, if you are against to many enemy, for break enemy shield wall and let your bows / crossbows destroy them.

I use this simple formation with Vlandian and i can managed enemy armies who have twice my troop numbers.

My main problem is full armies of khan's mounted archers , they are hard to fight.
 

SirStart

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You put a shield wall line 50 meters forward, shield wall only with units who have great shield , because elite units with small shield are useless in shield wall.
They are only here to take the arrows and block the masse never ask them to engage ennemy.
And you need at least a second line with spearmen, if you take a cavalry charge ask them to go in front of the shield wall or wherever the charge is of course. Or just use them as shock troops to flank the enemy .
Third line : bow/crossbow.
The recruits who are not yet spearmen or units with great shield you put them in a reserve line to flank enemy or protect bow / crossbow
And a few cavalry can be useful to charge enemy cavalry or, if you are against to many enemy, for break enemy shield wall and let your bows / crossbows destroy them.

I use this simple formation with Vlandian and i can managed enemy armies who have twice my troop numbers.

My main problem is full armies of khan's mounted archers , they are hard to fight.
i usually counter Khuzaits with lots o archers and light cavalry, get the infantry in square formation and sponge the arrows and then let yer archers go loose on the mounted archers, it takes some time to wither em down and when they get to close order cavalry charge as they tend to change to close quarter weapons then, this is the most usefull tactics i have found at the moment, still trying to find a better way but they are a way fast with their horses.
 

Waybook

Sergeant
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i usually counter Khuzaits with lots o archers and light cavalry, get the infantry in square formation and sponge the arrows and then let yer archers go loose on the mounted archers, it takes some time to wither em down and when they get to close order cavalry charge as they tend to change to close quarter weapons then, this is the most usefull tactics i have found at the moment, still trying to find a better way but they are a way fast with their horses.
If you put your infantry in square formation, do they stay in shield wall?
 

Mana Fortress

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You all might be intrested in watching the korean riot police training demonstration where they use modernized versions of the shieldwall.


While the police is ofc using batons and not any spears or swords, and have thus probably made alterations to the different formations displayed here,
It should give people a insight in how varied and dynamic a shieldwall can be.

It can both be a tight formation aswell as a loose formation that could actually let some few opponents through, but they would quickly get subdued by the second line in the formation.

I highly recommend watching the entire thing as they display several morphings of the formation.
I especially like what happends after the 3 minute mark, when the shieldwall goes on the offence at splits off and isolates a few of the rioters,
and also after 3:35 aswell as 6:15 when the reserve switches with the frontline so they can rest.
 
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IngegnerTommy

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I'm surprised this topic is seen as relatively low-priority by the community, infantry vs. infantry encounter are a bloody mess lasting a couple minutes at most and formations are pretty much useless. M&B Bannerlord is a game with HUGE potential both as vanilla and as mod-base, but to me this is a major flaw that i'm hoping can be fixed, and i'm waiting for that before commiting to a campaign..
 

SmattlePattle

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Viking Conquest wasn't developed by TW only. It was coop of TW and authors of Brytenwalda.

Another thing is Bannerlord is on totally different engine. Even if You see some mechanics that are similar to previous M&B they were still developed from scratch. This means that using solutions from previous titles is not as ease as it seems. It's not only about copying the solution but more about porting it and adjusting to new engine which sometimes is harder then creating new solution.
This is a fair point. I like TW and think they're good developers but I feel they could of perhaps learned a bit more from VC's successes on the old engine and tried to bring that level of feature/gameplay to their sequel. It seems like the baby got tossed out with the bathwater when it came to a lot of the Warband era improvements post release.
 

light6486

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Yeah I remember using shield wall and my troops was losing combat every time, now I always order line formation when enemy is close because otherwise they are like dummy targets. Shield wall is currently only helpful against archers and completely useless in melee.
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
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Yeah I remember using shield wall and my troops was losing combat every time, now I always order line formation when enemy is close because otherwise they are like dummy targets. Shield wall is currently only helpful against archers and completely useless in melee.
Recently I found out that shieldwall is bad if they hold position but it's quite good if they advance in shieldwall. They stick together and movement gives them.more space to swing.
 

serj

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If i try to charge in the back of enemy infantry just before they engage my lines, the enemy soldiers do a 180 in the last second and hit me. They do not seem to do that with my cav. Anyone else notice this?
 

Ciderglove

Recruit
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I'm surprised this topic is seen as relatively low-priority by the community, infantry vs. infantry encounter are a bloody mess lasting a couple minutes at most and formations are pretty much useless. M&B Bannerlord is a game with HUGE potential both as vanilla and as mod-base, but to me this is a major flaw that i'm hoping can be fixed, and i'm waiting for that before commiting to a campaign..
Agree completely. The fact that infantry are useless and that any AI can be beaten by a player army of 50% archers and 50% cavalry is the only reason I'm not playing the game.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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It would be nice to see a dev jump in and give some feedback on how and when they will adress this if it is even on their radar.