For the sake of all that is Holy, can you not have a better system for finding Lords?

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Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
The point is telling your companion to get the job done should be available in anytime in the campaign map not just while talking the quest giver.
Yes, that should be available.
Even when it was wrong it was more helpful than only having half of the information, you still knew the ballpark area they would be ending up at.

As opposed to only knowing where they *were*.
Not always, or even the majority of the time, unless they were heading to a feast or their fief.
"(whoever) is in the field at the moment and should be close to Tulga."
The fetch quests are not the only reason this is terrible, because you also need to talk to/find lords personally to make marriage offers, to hire minor faction mercenaries (which the AI can do telepathically!), to hunt down particular lords for the "capture an enemy lord" quest, for the main quest, to find faction leaders to join their faction, and most importantly, to recruit vassals.
Almost none of this should be the case.

The only reason any of it is this way in the first place is because someone out there thought it would be cool and interesting to wander around the map and it isn't, at least not after the first time. But thanks to that special TW magic, whatever happens once has to be repeated at least nine more times before they give the player any benefit. And that includes wandering the map in search of someone. I wonder where they got the idea this would be fun for players? Probably from the same sort of people who write that they wish the encyclopedia locator were removed because it is too good.

That's about the only thing about BL I'm defending in this thread*: the encyclopedia being useful. If the game is going to make me chase people down (which I also hate), then making me run down a notable just to obsessively ask them where someone else is going isn't "immersion." It is just annoying and putting more steps between dubiously necessary grind and having fun.

Of course, being made with that special TW magic, I'll be doing it literally dozens or hundreds of times in a playthrough for minuscule +2 and +5 bonuses.

A+, top-notch, definitely feel like I'm a character in a living world. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to deliver my 515th sheep to Akkalat. Just another 85 livestock and people will start to consider me Honorable, which is statistically 1/5th of the way onto being their actual friend. If I do that, they have about a 12% extra chance of voting along with me sometimes.

Assuming they can actually vote on anything.

I think I'm the only person who said they liked it at first.
It was fun the first two times, but that was because I wasn't chasing people to complete it, just going through a playthrough and talking to nobles (usually in armies). You have a lot of time to complete it, so there isn't any rush.



*edit:
Actually, I guess being able to instantly turn-in quests counts as well. There are a few games out there that are "smart" enough to run an inventory check before assigning the items you need to grab for a fetch quest, just to make sure you don't have them already, going out of their way to waste players' time.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Yes, that should be available.

Not always, or even the majority of the time, unless they were heading to a feast or their fief.
"(whoever) is in the field at the moment and should be close to Tulga."

Almost none of this should be the case.

The only reason any of it is this way in the first place is because someone out there thought it would be cool and interesting to wander around the map and it isn't, at least not after the first time. But thanks to that special TW magic, whatever happens once has to be repeated at least nine more times before they give the player any benefit. And that includes wandering the map in search of someone. I wonder where they got the idea this would be fun for players? Probably from the same sort of people who write that they wish the encyclopedia locator were removed because it is too good.

That's about the only thing about BL I'm defending in this thread*: the encyclopedia being useful. If the game is going to make me chase people down (which I also hate), then making me run down a notable just to obsessively ask them where someone else is going isn't "immersion." It is just annoying and putting more steps between dubiously necessary grind and having fun.

Of course, being made with that special TW magic, I'll be doing it literally dozens or hundreds of times in a playthrough for minuscule +2 and +5 bonuses.

A+, top-notch, definitely feel like I'm a character in a living world. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to deliver my 515th sheep to Akkalat. Just another 85 livestock and people will start to consider me Honorable, which is statistically 1/5th of the way onto being their actual friend. If I do that, they have about a 12% extra chance of voting along with me sometimes.

Assuming they can actually vote on anything.


It was fun the first two times, but that was because I wasn't chasing people to complete it, just going through a playthrough and talking to nobles (usually in armies). You have a lot of time to complete it, so there isn't any rush.



*edit:
Actually, I guess being able to instantly turn-in quests counts as well. There are a few games out there that are "smart" enough to run an inventory check before assigning the items you need to grab for a fetch quest, just to make sure you don't have them already, going out of their way to waste players' time.
If you want me to realise you're not defending anything, maybe you should realise none of us ever said that the grind is good, quite the opposite
 

swally0ne

Veteran
And other people hate it too. Are you going to argue with them?
yes iam going to argue because this is nuts. as same as you argue with people who dont see a problem with it. why should you know where they are heading to when you are located on the exactly other end of the map? the idea is that you gather information and find out for yourself by retracing the lords steps. its not that difficult to go into a village from time to time and retrace it and as i said. no i dont think that this is the best quest or mechanic in gaming history, but i also do think that you and others are overreacting on that. and i think its not okay to give you the option to find out where exactly they are heading to if you dont see the party for yourself if you already have the encyclopedia.

and you forget that the mechanic in warband was also not perfect, as lords are changing their target from time to time. so you would wind up searching for them and asking for information anyway. in fact, it would be a total mess in bannerlord, as the size of the map is bigger and the target decission being made by the ai (whether its good or not) is frequently changing.

so what are you going to do when you get the information that garios is heading towards zeonica and you wind up not finding him there because actually he is somewhere else because of events are happening? right, you would look it up in the encyclopedia.

i also never in my whole life had any problem with tracking down the lords. i just go into a village, get the information updated, and continue from there. 5 minutes. so i have to say, i dont understand what yours and others problem actually is. i understand what you are complaining about but i dont agree to most of the parts you and others are saying in here.
 
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Chips

Recruit
It's a suggestion against unnecessarily unfun/boring/grindy gameplay. A simple QoL improvement without having to redo entire missions/game, but also one that'd maybe make them think if doing anything future wise "oh, this may not be optimal user experience".

That's it.

Somehow the counter argument being made is again "there's grindy boring gameplay... keep the status quo, here's how to minimise it for yourself, but do NOT make changes because... no reasons".

It's a request/suggestion. Yes, offer your opinion as to how to minimise grind / annoyance in the meantime with helpful suggestions. But that doesn't negate the reasonable point being made does it? How does that then translate into attacking posters over it.

This is bonkers.
 

swally0ne

Veteran
Somehow the counter argument being made is again "there's grindy boring gameplay... keep the status quo, here's how to minimise it for yourself, but do NOT make changes because... no reasons".
that is not what i have said and is by far less then my argument.
this "QoL suggestion" is actually not working out and not helpful at all for reasons i mentioned above.

if you think that tracking down lords is grind, then you do something wrong. tracking down lords goes quick. yes it is annoying, but not because of searching for them, just because of what the quest in general is. like every other quest in any other game where you need to find someone. good thing is that you can actually dodge that by playing sandbox.

the encyclopedia tool with finding lords is actual very useable to me and others, i use it very often and it helps me a lot. its pretty accurate, information goes in fast, i dont have to specifically talk to anyone and can move on quick.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
If you want me to realise you're not defending anything, maybe you should realise none of us ever said that the grind is good, quite the opposite
You said:
The OP has already made it clear they just want to play quests in an RPG. They don't want to "not take the quest" as in your advice and miss out on a bunch of content in the game because it's poorly designed. They are providing feedback that the game can be designed better to be less frustrating and more fun; your advice amounts to "it's not frustrating if you don't play it."
Calling running down NPCs across a world map an "RPG" is defending it, period. It is pure grind that we're stuck with.

And, to be clear, my advice was "don't do the frustrating part."

Somehow the counter argument being made is again "there's grindy boring gameplay... keep the status quo, here's how to minimise it for yourself, but do NOT make changes because... no reasons".
Who said that?
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
You said:
And where in that block of text is me defending these words you tried to shove into our mouths:

"whatever happens once has to be repeated at least nine more times before they give the player any benefit"

"Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to deliver my 515th sheep to Akkalat. Just another 85 livestock and people will start to consider me Honorable, which is statistically 1/5th of the way onto being their actual friend. If I do that, they have about a 12% extra chance of voting along with me sometimes.

Assuming they can actually vote on anything."

All of this is **** I have an entire thread dedicated to calling a bad thing and you're trying to pretend any of us support it.
Calling running down NPCs across a world map an "RPG" is defending it, period
No, that's called a straw man/false equivalence fallacy.

Fetch quests are standard fare for almost every RPG ever. They are not good but they are fine in small amounts. I am not defending the excessive reliance of TW on grind and repeating the same small pool of quests over and over. I am definitely not saying that the lack of ability for NPC relations or votes to mean anything is a good thing, I spent multiple threads complaining about it. I am saying that the quest is fine in small numbers and would just be a fine minor gameplay diversion if it wasn't such a damn hassle chasing people around to turn in the quest.
And, to be clear, my advice was "don't do the frustrating part."
Your advice was to skip the entirety of the quest every single time you were not capable of completing it instantly due to not already having the needed items.
 

Nawari

Regular
The best way to find them is not to look for them.
I explain what I meant. There are many things to do to prepare your clan. Trade, kill bandits in refuges, start to improve your relations with certain nobles and notables, do small missions, improve your fame, raise certain skills... Finance your first caravan, your first workshop... So I do that, and I usually bump into the Lords involved in the quest without even thinking about it.

Anyway the quest is not fabulous. I do it when I start a game to give some sense, but it's not very exciting. There is still something missing in this game at the backstory level.
 
yes iam going to argue because this is nuts. as same as you argue with people who dont see a problem with it. why should you know where they are heading to when you are located on the exactly other end of the map? the idea is that you gather information and find out for yourself by retracing the lords steps. its not that difficult to go into a village from time to time and retrace it and as i said. no i dont think that this is the best quest or mechanic in gaming history, but i also do think that you and others are overreacting on that. and i think its not okay to give you the option to find out where exactly they are heading to if you dont see the party for yourself if you already have the encyclopedia.

and you forget that the mechanic in warband was also not perfect, as lords are changing their target from time to time. so you would wind up searching for them and asking for information anyway. in fact, it would be a total mess in bannerlord, as the size of the map is bigger and the target decission being made by the ai (whether its good or not) is frequently changing.

so what are you going to do when you get the information that garios is heading towards zeonica and you wind up not finding him there because actually he is somewhere else because of events are happening? right, you would look it up in the encyclopedia.

i also never in my whole life had any problem with tracking down the lords. i just go into a village, get the information updated, and continue from there. 5 minutes. so i have to say, i dont understand what yours and others problem actually is. i understand what you are complaining about but i dont agree to most of the parts you and others are saying in here.
If you have no problem with it, cool. Make your own thread instead of coming on here with your lazy "git gud" rhetoric.

You know what I say when people say how much they hate what I love? "I actually like it becauze... but I see what you're saying."

And a lot of times,they do have good points! But when you are objectively wrong by saying there's no reason to hate this, I'm going to show you that you are spending 20% of your gameplay on a menial task.
 
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swally0ne

Veteran
If you have no problem with it, cool. Make your own thread instead of coming on here with your lazy "git gud" rhetoric.

You know what I say when people say how much they hate what I love? "I actually like it becauze... but I see what you're saying."

And a lot of times,they do have good points! But when you are objectively wrong by saying there's no reason to hate this, I'm going to show you that you are spending 20% of your gameplay on a menial task.
so you basically want to create a bubble where everyone is applauding each other, no matter what :grin:
i guess iam allowed to say my opinion to this topic as same as everyone else is. you dont have to like it as same as i dont have to like yours.

and by the way it has nothing to do with lazy "git gud" rhetoric. and saying that someone is objectivly wrong is not an argument, its actually just your subjective point of view. if you dont understand how to track down a lord, then you have a core issue with understanding one of the easiest game mechanics/tools in the game.

and no, making it like it was in warband is actually worse. for reasons i already mentioned and you seemingly dont care about.
 
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Nawari

Regular
If you have no problem with it, cool. Make your own thread instead of coming on here with your lazy "git gud" rhetoric.

You know what I say when people say how much they hate what I love? "I actually like it becauze... but I see what you're saying."

And a lot of times,they do have good points! But when you are objectively wrong by saying there's no reason to hate this, I'm going to show you that you are spending 20% of your gameplay on a menial task.
I know it perfectly, already, the developers should stop taking the players for idiots. Especially managers...
- We waste all our time on unnecessary trips,
- We waste all our time with... a lot of unnecessary trips,
- We waste our time with unnecessary trips,

We waste our time in useless battles,
we waste our time in totally useless battles,

In short, with this game we lose 100% of our time because nothing is really fun in this game.

everything is hateful in this game. Even those who play it (lol)
 

Nawari

Regular
so you basically want to create a bubble where everyone is applauding each other, no matter what :grin:
i guess iam allowed to say my opinion to this topic as same as everyone else is. you dont have to like it as same as i dont have to like yours
Love love love !
 

Blood Gryphon

Grandmaster Knight
WBVC
never knew I would miss the simple dialogue options of warband:
- what are you and your man doing?
- how goes the war?
- do you know the location of x? (and. Yes a hint at the destination is more helpful than the place the NPC has been)
- would you follow me?
- this fief is in danger would you go defend is?

And the option to talk to the siege leader to start the siege earlier.
I am sure I misremember some of the lines, its been a long time sinds I player warband.

It is a shame that the dialogue tree hasn't been expanded.

Using 'N' to find the nobles, works to an extend. but it is not fun gameplay and doesn't fit the immersion of the time period.
asking other people if they now the whereabouts of important nobles seems more believable, even better if they provide more useful information.
Yeah I miss it to, the worst part is they clearly set themselves up for it with the empty discussion dialog option with lords, but just never implemented it. Also no reason why we can't have both the encyclopedia and talking to lords, it would fit the general theme of choosing whether you want convenience or if you rather rp a bit.

Ohhh TW.....
 
so you basically want to create a bubble where everyone is applauding each other, no matter what :grin:
i guess iam allowed to say my opinion to this topic as same as everyone else is. you dont have to like it as same as i dont have to like yours.

and by the way it has nothing to do with lazy "git gud" rhetoric. and saying that someone is objectivly wrong is not an argument, its actually just your subjective point of view. if you dont understand how to track down a lord, then you have a core issue with understanding one of the easiest game mechanics/tools in the game.

and no, making it like it was in warband is actually worse. for reasons i already mentioned and you seemingly dont care about.
Let's say that was true... where does that hurt you?
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
And where in that block of text is me defending these words you tried to shove into our mouths:
Asked and answered: When you called BL an RPG. But if that isn't good enough:
...one block of text later...
Fetch quests are standard fare for almost every RPG ever. They are not good but they are fine in small amounts...

...I am saying that the quest is fine in small numbers and would just be a fine minor gameplay diversion if it wasn't such a damn hassle chasing people around to turn in the quest.
"fine in small amounts"
"fine in small numbers"
"a fine minor gameplay diversion"

In actual RPGs, the fetch quests usually aren't repetitive and sometimes do serve to get the player to explore parts of the game world they wouldn't otherwise. Dragon Age: Origins, for one example. Frequently they have some narrative value as well.

And there are quests like that in BL already: Neretzes' Folly, which has like 24 nobles to talk to (and is wholly optional) and Assemble the Dragon Banner, where the quest givers stay rooted in one place.

The rest are pure grind for renown and minor relations boosts.
Your advice was to skip the entirety of the quest every single time you were not capable of completing it instantly due to not already having the needed items.
The "entirety" of the quest is walking to a town or village to buy items. Hell yes, I say skip that part as often as possible -- it is boring.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Asked and answered: When you called BL an RPG.
That isn't an answer, that's just repeating your non-answer.
But if that isn't good enough:
...one block of text later...

"fine in small amounts"
"fine in small numbers"
"a fine minor gameplay diversion"

In actual RPGs, the fetch quests usually aren't repetitive and sometimes do serve to get the player to explore parts of the game world they wouldn't otherwise. Dragon Age: Origins, for one example. Frequently they have some narrative value as well.
No True Scotsman fallacy. Games universally accepted as RPGs that have fetch quests that are repetitive are still considered actual RPGs even if the fetchquests are repetitive and don't make the player do any unusual exploration.
The rest are pure grind for renown and minor relations boosts.
OK, but what's your point? What are you trying to say? I already said nobody here is defending the poor renown reward for various quests which makes the game so grindy and makes you have to do such an enormous number of them.
The "entirety" of the quest is walking to a town or village to buy items. Hell yes, I say skip that part as often as possible -- it is boring.
Plenty of us would find it fine in small amounts mixed up with other quests, if the return leg of the journey wasn't such of a pain in the ass.

All we want is for content in the game to become better.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Games universally accepted as RPGs that have fetch quests that are repetitive are still considered actual RPGs even if the fetchquests are repetitive and don't make the player do any unusual exploration.
I wrote "usually" for a reason. There are a exceptions, but (in general) RPGs don't use repeated fetch quests. Not even RPG-lite titles like RDR use it. On the other hand, MMOs do and that's what it feels like playing BL much of the time: like I'm grinding quests in an MMO.
OK, but what's your point? What are you trying to say?
The other quests add extremely little to the "story" of a playthrough. The sole benefit is in the rewards so there is no reason not to skip the boring part.

At any rate, this is going nowhere. We've have variations of this same back-and-forth like three times that I can remember. It is clear you loved Warband for being an RPG (I remember you actually said it had good writing, wtf) whereas I thought it was a **** "RPG" grafted onto an otherwise great game, like something that had been found floating off of Dr. Moreau's island.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I wrote "usually" for a reason. There are a exceptions
Okay, so Bannerlord is an RPG. Good to know.
The other quests add extremely little to the "story" of a playthrough. The sole benefit is in the rewards so there is no reason not to skip the boring part.
At any rate, this is going nowhere
Yes. Because like I said from the beginning, the OP's sole goal here is to get content in the game made more playable and less frustrating, whether or not you consider said content to your personal liking. Your advice to just ignore the content was never going to convince anyone.
 
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