For the sake of all that is Holy, can you not have a better system for finding Lords?

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Bjorn The Upset

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
Just let us add the Lords on discord so we can conference call them
Don't we already have this for kingdom decisions?

Dev 1: In Warband, players could send their companions as emissary for peace. Let's expand this system like players using their companions for communication with lords.
Armağan: No, we want players to explore the map.
Dev 1: What is there to explore?
Armağan: I have said enough.

Dev 2: In Warband, there was feasts and now we are adding kingdom decisions into the game. Let's use this system for kingdom decisions.
Armağan: No, in Calradia there is telepathy magic which was forgotten in Warband era. In Bannerlord, lords will be making kingdom decisions using this forgotten magic.
Dev 1: Then players could use this magic for lords quests, right?
Armağan: What I did tell you just now? We want players to explore the game.
Dev 1: Okay, sorry.
 

Spinozart1

Knight
Don't we already have this for kingdom decisions?

Dev 1: In Warband, players could send their companions as emissary for peace. Let's expand this system like players using their companions for communication with lords.
Armağan: No, we want players to explore the map.
Dev 1: What is there to explore?
Armağan: I have said enough.

Dev 2: In Warband, there was feasts and now we are adding kingdom decisions into the game. Let's use this system for kingdom decisions.
Armağan: No, in Calradia there is telepathy magic which was forgotten in Warband era. In Bannerlord, lords will be making kingdom decisions using this forgotten magic.
Dev 1: Then players could use this magic for lords quests, right?
Armağan: What I did tell you just now? We want players to explore the game.
Dev 1: Okay, sorry.
😂
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Don't we already have this for kingdom decisions?

Dev 1: In Warband, players could send their companions as emissary for peace. Let's expand this system like players using their companions for communication with lords.
Armağan: No, we want players to explore the map.
Dev 1: What is there to explore?
Armağan: I have said enough.

Dev 2: In Warband, there was feasts and now we are adding kingdom decisions into the game. Let's use this system for kingdom decisions.
Armağan: No, in Calradia there is telepathy magic which was forgotten in Warband era. In Bannerlord, lords will be making kingdom decisions using this forgotten magic.
Dev 1: Then players could use this magic for lords quests, right?
Armağan: What I did tell you just now? We want players to explore the game.
Dev 1: Okay, sorry.
Yep, this sums up Bannerlord's confused approach.

Ideally, "exploration" would mean we would have fun, optional gameplay reasons to explore the interesting, well-crafted scenes and involve in challenges. Instead, "exploration" means we spend literal real world hours forced to slowly move around on the overworld map.

We need changes to Bannerlord's gameplay so that either you run into more interesting scenarios, challenges and experiences on the road, or if that's not possible, then changes should be made so the player spends less time wandering around on a world map where there's nothing to do.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Why don't you actually try it and find out?
Yup, still works. Same as it has for years at this point.
With how enormously grindy this game already is, skipping multiple lord quests (potential sources of renown to increase clan tier) because you don't already have the means to fulfill them instantly means you are also missing out on opportunities to progress. So you're just swapping one waste of time for another waste of time.
It is far more of a waste of time to trek around for items then trek back to the quest-giver to turn it in. It is also, most importantly, boring as ****.
People want to play this game as an RPG (because that's what it is marketed as). They should be able to do so without needless frustration.
Yeah, that's why the most popular mod to fix this sends an instant message by default, right?
 

Chips

Recruit
Yup, still works. Same as it has for years at this point.

It is far more of a waste of time to trek around for items then trek back to the quest-giver to turn it in. It is also, most importantly, boring as ****.

Yeah, that's why the most popular mod to fix this sends an instant message by default, right?
You are entirely missing the original posters point. Grindy annoying gameplay "because..." (reasons omitted as there's no reason to force grindy annoying play). It could be improved upon/changed/updated without compromising the game. That's it. Such a weird point to be trying to argue/persuade others against...

Really not sure what your points are tbh. "I can instantly complete missions so therefore there's no time wasting gameplay in game nor reasons to make requests to minimise/improve missions" is such a weird stance to hold.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
It is far more of a waste of time to trek around for items then trek back to the quest-giver to turn it in. It is also, most importantly, boring as ****. Yeah, that's why the most popular mod to fix this sends an instant message by default, right?
Either way, there is no point in arguing against OP's request to make the game less boring.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Really not sure what your points are tbh.
"Here is how to do this boring, grindy **** fast so you can get back to having actual fun."

Either way, there is no point in arguing against OP's request to make the game less boring.
I don't know why you continuously defend stale game design like repetitive fetch quests and try to "improve" them in any way other than cheesing them. These quests are never going to be fun or interesting. They were whack in Warband, they were still whack in Viking Conquest because they were copy-pasted, they were whack in the hundred-and-one games before them and they are going to continue to be whack wherever some lead dev or narrative director decides it is "fun" to run around like an errand boy for a NPC. An NPC who is never again going to bring up that time you delivered them SEMI_RANDOM_NUMBER of ITEMS_COMMON because you're going to do it about ten more times (complete with the same dialogue) before you see any benefits worth mentioning.

It sucks from top to bottom and the worst thing possible is to encourage people to engage with that grind on its own merits.
 

Bjorn The Upset

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
it is "fun" to run around like an errand boy for a NPC.
It does not have to be fun but also it does not have to be grindy like in the game.

For example, with scout system, we can see which lords have a quest. After seeing that, as a lord and as a head of the clan, the player should be able to say to his companion "hey, it seems this lord have some kind of quest, go and see what is the problem and solve it". After that, depending on which kind of quest it is and depending on how the player's companion stats are, the quest will be completed or not.

Or the player get a fetch quest from a lord in person. The player goes to a city and buys the required things and then order his companion "these are the items the lord requested, take 15 men and deliver it".

We are able to do this kind of thing while taking quests from villages or cities although it is only available while talking the village notable or city. I do not remember this feature is available for lord quests while speaking the lord since maybe I did 5 lord quests in 500 hours gameplay time. Because they are boring and I can increase my relationship with lords anyway via discord conference while making kingdom decisions.

The point is telling your companion to get the job done should be available in anytime in the campaign map not just while talking the quest giver.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
"Here is how to do this boring, grindy **** fast so you can get back to having actual fun."


I don't know why you continuously defend stale game design like repetitive fetch quests and try to "improve" them in any way other than cheesing them. These quests are never going to be fun or interesting. They were whack in Warband, they were still whack in Viking Conquest because they were copy-pasted, they were whack in the hundred-and-one games before them and they are going to continue to be whack wherever some lead dev or narrative director decides it is "fun" to run around like an errand boy for a NPC. An NPC who is never again going to bring up that time you delivered them SEMI_RANDOM_NUMBER of ITEMS_COMMON because you're going to do it about ten more times (complete with the same dialogue) before you see any benefits worth mentioning.

It sucks from top to bottom and the worst thing possible is to encourage people to engage with that grind on its own merits.
Sure fetch quests are boring but they aren't actively bad as an occasional early game diversion that lets the player use their trade skill and they aren't going to be removed any time soon, surely you can agree, so why not make them less of a pain in the ass to complete?

You also still haven't answered what I said about fetch quests not being the only reason to try and find lords. That's what OP's opening title was about.

There's no reason for you to get this riled up in defense of TW's awful system for locating people except that you've gone into stubborn mode since someone correctly pointed out that your advice misses the point.

Literally no reason not to change it, so why even post all this?
 
Yup, still works. Same as it has for years at this point.

It is far more of a waste of time to trek around for items then trek back to the quest-giver to turn it in. It is also, most importantly, boring as ****.

Yeah, that's why the most popular mod to fix this sends an instant message by default, right?
If I throw a stick, will you go away? You are just here to "be right." You're not right. And your video didn't prove you're right. Because you spent the same amount of wasted time.
"My **** is better than your ****" Apocal, probably.
 
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swally0ne

Veteran
I now realize why I don't like playing this game in the beginning. I like a lot of it, especially when it gets going but please, for pete's sake, why did you have to make finding Lords and Nobles so dang hard!

And the excuse the devs give for their design choice is terrible. The folly quest where you have to find ten lords: "wE wAnT yOu to EXpLoRE." But we don't want to. Seriously, a show of hands, did anyone ever actually have fun doing that quest? Anyone? I hear crickets. So you make a stupid quest that no one likes because that's what you want people to do and if they don't do it, what? Will the Devs cry at night or something?

As though exploring isn't its own reward. You have to compel everyone to go around and try and play hide n seek for some lord we don't really care about. Seriously? Is it that mission critical for your vision that we have to do that?

The dumbest thing devs could ever possibly do in an open world is trying to force an experience they wanted players to have instead of players making their own experiences organically.
dude are you like seriously sitting in here and complain about the probably most easiest, least important thing of the game? just press the fkn n button and find some kingdom leaders. it's like 5 minutes.

if you dont like the campaign in general, then check out the sandbox mode of the game. its the dumbest thing that you dont even notice that, but blame others like apocal for trying to help you. you are just toxic.
 

swally0ne

Veteran
How is he helpful by suggesting I skip half the game?
he was suggesting that you press the damn n button and find the bloody lords. i dont get your issue for real. yes it's not the best quest ever in gaming history but its one of the first quests of the game and its there to introduce new players into the game. you dont have to be fkn einstein to notice that.

in addition to that, apocal and others where also telling you that you dont have to do that. stick to sandbox and do your thing.

iam just trying to tell you bannerlord is having a lot of issues. finding some lords for the main quest is none of them.
 
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he was suggesting that you press the damn n button and find the bloody lords. i dont get your issue for real. yes it's not the best quest ever in gaming history but its one of the first quests of the game and its there to introduce new players into the game. you dont have to be fkn einstein to notice that.

in addition to that, apocal and others where also telling you that you dont have to do that. stick to sandbox and do your thing.

iam just trying to tell you bannerlord is having a lot of issues. finding some lords for the main quest is none of them.
That doesn't work. While that tells you where they are, it doesn't tell you where they're headed. So you can never tell if you are heading in the right direction.

And other people hate it too. Are you going to argue with them?

But honestly, I don't think you actually care. I think if we improved how the game plays, you'd love it. What are you are here for, is to argue. Because most people disagree with you, but you picked the one person who responds and started beating on them. That's not the behavior of an individual who is actually interested in the discussion. But it is what bullies do.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
he was suggesting that you press the damn n button and find the bloody lords.

Are you guys even playing the same game as us? Try listening when we tell you our ingame experience of how that goes.

Encyclopaedia tells you their last known location. It does not tell you where they are heading towards like Warband did. This means you can be chasing a lord in circles around the ****ing map, even if you are faster than them, because you never know where they are headed next.

Let's say you are in the field and want to find a lord. The game tells you a lord's last known location is Village A. So you head to village A and update your encyclopaedia, by which time they have already moved on to Village B because they barely spend any time in the village.

Since they could have gone to either Village B or Village C, you can't even try and head them off on their way to wherever it is that they're going because there is a 50% chance you'll be wrong and wind up at Village B only to learn their last known location is Village C.

I only experienced this problem once, briefly, in Warband and not at all for the rest of entire playthroughs, because you could ask people and they would say "oh, Lord Butterface? he's in the field and heading towards Village C," so you would make a beeline for Village C, rather than having to start at the last place they stopped (Village A). Also because there were usually feasts they would stop at for a good while.

But in Bannerlord it happens ALL THE TIME and yes, I am checking the encyclopaedia, I am trying to guess where the inherently irrational AI will head next, and I am stopping at every village to update my info.

And consistently it means that the process of finding every lord takes as much as multiple more ingame days of travel. Now multiply that by the 100 times you might need to find a lord in a playthrough and it adds up to real life hours of just aimless wandering!

The fetch quests are not the only reason this is terrible, because you also need to talk to/find lords personally to make marriage offers, to hire minor faction mercenaries (which the AI can do telepathically!), to hunt down particular lords for the "capture an enemy lord" quest, for the main quest, to find faction leaders to join their faction, and most importantly, to recruit vassals.

While you're AT WAR WITH TWO KINGDOMS and you have no time to be wandering around!

Bannerlord is already a grindy as **** game. There is no reason to spend so many words arguing against the people who want to take out needless boring grind from it. Just let me know where lords are going!
 

Blood Gryphon

Grandmaster Knight
WBVC
That doesn't work. While that tells you where they are, it doesn't tell you where they're headed. So you can never tell if you are heading in the right direction.
If you enter a town or village the encyclopedia updates, so you just head in the general direction of that person and pop into villages or towns on the way to keep updating it, very easy. Its the same as in warband when you would have to talk to a person to know the general area a noble is going towards, but they made it even easier in Bannerlord. Warbands sucked because just like in Bannerlord the AI can chose to go somewhere else at a moments notice making the advice useless, except in warband you had to go find another noble to ask again instead of just popping in a village/town for the encyclopedia to update.
What are you are here for, is to argue. Because most people disagree with you, but you picked the one person who responds and started beating on them. That's not the behavior of an individual who is actually interested in the discussion. But it is what bullies do.
You literally just described yourself. This comment fits perfectly for your own comment below.
Okay, you are objectively wrong. And here is why you are objectively wrong... of course trying to explain this to obtuse individuals usually backfires because they're too obtuse to understand math.
All you've done is talk **** to someone who attempted to give you some advice. Even Apocal thinks the quest is lame but its not our choice whether its in the game or not, we have to deal with it so he tried to help. If Apocal is obtuse then I got bad news for you buddy.
I now realize why I don't like playing this game in the beginning. I like a lot of it, especially when it gets going but please, for pete's sake, why did you have to make finding Lords and Nobles so dang hard!

And the excuse the devs give for their design choice is terrible. The folly quest where you have to find ten lords: "wE wAnT yOu to EXpLoRE." But we don't want to. Seriously, a show of hands, did anyone ever actually have fun doing that quest? Anyone? I hear crickets. So you make a stupid quest that no one likes because that's what you want people to do and if they don't do it, what? Will the Devs cry at night or something?

As though exploring isn't its own reward. You have to compel everyone to go around and try and play hide n seek for some lord we don't really care about. Seriously? Is it that mission critical for your vision that we have to do that?

The dumbest thing devs could ever possibly do in an open world is trying to force an experience they wanted players to have instead of players making their own experiences organically.
Yeah I actually really enjoyed it the first time I played (although after doing it a hundred times, i just play sandbox mode now). If you actually read what they say about nereztes folly you get the only actual lore and soul to the game, it was a great bait for the rest of the experience. It was very nice to see all the different perspectives from each of the kingdoms and it gave me a reason to explore the map early on when otherwise I would have just stayed in my factions lands grinding. It literally sets the stage for the campaign. Now is it a quest I want to do more than once? **** no, I know the story now, but guess what i can just play sandbox where im not forced with an experience and i can make my own organic experience.

Also i just remembered when i first did this the encyclopedia was completely broken and didn't update correctly so I had to legit wander calradia, but finding out more about the lore was completely worth it.
giphy.gif

Are you guys even playing the same game as us? Try listening when we tell you our ingame experience of how that goes.

Encyclopaedia tells you their last known location. It does not tell you where they are heading towards like Warband did. This means you can be chasing a lord in circles around the ****ing map, even if you are faster than them, because you never know where they are headed next.

Let's say you are in the field and want to find a lord. The game tells you a lord's last known location is Village A. So you head to village A and update your encyclopaedia, by which time they have already moved on to Village B because they barely spend any time in the village.

Since they could have gone to either Village B or Village C, you can't even try and head them off on their way to wherever it is that they're going because there is a 50% chance you'll be wrong and wind up at Village B only to learn their last known location is Village C.

I only experienced this problem once, briefly, in Warband and not at all for the rest of entire playthroughs, because you could ask people and they would say "oh, Lord Butterface? he's in the field and heading towards Village C," so you would make a beeline for Village C, rather than having to start at the last place they stopped (Village A). Also because there were usually feasts they would stop at for a good while.

But in Bannerlord it happens ALL THE TIME and yes, I am checking the encyclopaedia, I am trying to guess where the inherently irrational AI will head next, and I am stopping at every village to update my info.

And consistently it means that the process of finding every lord takes as much as multiple more ingame days of travel. Now multiply that by the 100 times you might need to find a lord in a playthrough and it adds up to real life hours of just aimless wandering!

The fetch quests are not the only reason this is terrible, because you also need to talk to/find lords personally to make marriage offers, to hire minor faction mercenaries (which the AI can do telepathically!), to hunt down particular lords for the "capture an enemy lord" quest, for the main quest, to find faction leaders to join their faction, and most importantly, to recruit vassals.

While you're AT WAR WITH TWO KINGDOMS and you have no time to be wandering around!

Bannerlord is already a grindy as **** game. There is no reason to spend so many words arguing against the people who want to take out needless boring grind from it. Just let me know where lords are going!
Five did we play the same warband? That **** was wrong half the time in my experience, but it was easy to find lords anyways in warband because the map was tiny.

Even if the encyclopedia told us where someone was going in that moment, the AI switch paths so ****ing much that you would still be popping into every village to update it.

As Apocal said above the only real answer is messengers which you find in the best mods. TW has repeatedly refused to give us this feature even though we've begged multiple times.

There's no reason for you to get this riled up in defense of TW's awful system for locating people except that you've gone into stubborn mode since someone correctly pointed out that your advice misses the point.
This is ironic given your post above.

Also I don't read Apocal's post as him defending TW, he was simply giving a solution to a problem that isn't going away. There is no ****ing way TW scraps the campaign at this point after 2 years of us telling them its **** all we got was sandbox mode, time to move on and try to enjoy the game we got like Apocal was advising.
 
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five bucks

Knight at Arms
Five did we play the same warband? That **** was wrong half the time in my experience
Even when it was wrong it was more helpful than only having half of the information, you still knew the ballpark area they would be ending up at.

As opposed to only knowing where they *were*.
but it was easy to find lords anyways in warband because the map was tiny.
Lords are usually patrolling the same size region in Bannerlord too, because they spend most of their time around their fiefs or in the near borders of the nation they're at war with. So I don't think that's the difference, I think it's a combination of:

* Lords spent more time stopped in one place (thank you Harlaus)

* You knew where they were going even if it wasn't perfect information
Even if the encyclopedia told us where someone was going in that moment, the AI switch paths so ****ing much that you would still be popping into every village to update it.
It wouldn't be a complete solution - which is why I suggested other changes too - but it would be a HUGE improvement. Even if it only works 50% of the time, you've still cut out 50% of the random lost wandering time in the game. No real reason not to do it.

Then do it in conjunction with feasts and a "landline" messenger system and not having to meet as many lords to progress Neretzes' Folly, and you would have eliminated most of the problem.
As Apocal said above the only real answer is messengers which you find in the best mods. TW has repeatedly refused to give us this feature even though we've begged multiple times.
Messengers would improve the situation, yes. Duh has opposed being able to send direct messages from anywhere, but he has been receptive to the "landline" idea which would be useful in the kingdom phase, the time when it's needed most. Apart from that I have seen no statement from Taleworlds outright stating that they are opposed to any sort of message system.

We are not asking for a perfect solution but we do want it to be better and it is definitely within TW's capabilities to make it better.
Also I don't read Apocal's post as him defending TW, he was simply giving a solution to a problem that isn't going away. There is no ****ing way TW scraps the campaign at this point after 2 years of us telling them its **** all we got was sandbox mode, time to move on and try to enjoy the game we got like Apocal was advising.
I'm not asking for the campaign to be scrapped, just improved.

The forum is here to complain about the problems with the game, whether or not you guys think there is any point telling people to complain to TW, there is even less point dedicating multiple posts to telling them not to complain.
 

Blood Gryphon

Grandmaster Knight
WBVC
Even when it was wrong it was more helpful than only having half of the information, you still knew the ballpark area they would be ending up at.

As opposed to only knowing where they *were*.

Lords are usually patrolling the same size region in Bannerlord too, because they spend most of their time around their fiefs or in the near borders of the nation they're at war with. So I don't think that's the difference, I think it's a combination of:

* Lords spent more time stopped in one place (thank you Harlaus)

* You knew where they were going even if it wasn't perfect information

It wouldn't be a complete solution - which is why I suggested other changes too - but it would be a HUGE improvement. Even if it only works 50% of the time, you've still cut out 50% of the random lost wandering time in the game. No real reason not to do it.
I'll be honest id much rather know exactly where someone is at the moment I update my encyclopedia, with just 2 updates you can predict the direction they are heading and when you actually get close you know exactly where they are instead of where they are headed. In warband you would meet up at the end of that lords path so you could end up waiting for them there and they could not show up, meanwhile in bannerlord you actually know where they are which gets more helpful the closer you get to them. I honestly dont have a problem finding people in bannerlord, id just prefer not to have to interrupt what I'm doing to travel to them.
Then do it in conjunction with feasts and a "landline" messenger system and not having to meet as many lords to progress Neretzes' Folly, and you would have eliminated most of the problem.
You know I agree with this part.
Messengers would improve the situation, yes. Duh has opposed being able to send direct messages from anywhere, but he has been receptive to the "landline" idea which would be useful in the kingdom phase, the time when it's needed most. Apart from that I have seen no statement from Taleworlds outright stating that they are opposed to any sort of message system.
Trust me I know it was my suggestion and discussion with him 🤣. You are correct they've only fully denied a "universal" messenger, but any solution we are looking for is apparently deemed backlog which gives me little hope of a real solution.
We are not asking for a perfect solution but we do want it to be better and it is definitely within TW's capabilities to make it better.

I'm not asking for the campaign to be scrapped, just improved.
I think literally everyone in this post agrees the quest is **** and wants it to be improved or not exist. I think I'm the only person who said they liked it at first.
The forum is here to complain about the problems with the game, whether or not you guys think there is any point telling people to complain to TW, there is even less point dedicating multiple posts to telling them not to complain.
Don't think anyone said to not complain? Workarounds were provided to try to give OP a way to move forward to which OP said they wouldnt work to which proof was provided to show it did work. Multiple posts to try to get someone ignorant of the potential workarounds to understand is worth it in my book, especially when in reality its not just OP reading it.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I'll be honest id much rather know exactly where someone is at the moment I update my encyclopedia, with just 2 updates you can predict the direction they are heading and when you actually get close you know exactly where they are instead of where they are headed. In warband you would meet up at the end of that lords path so you could end up waiting for them there and they could not show up, meanwhile in bannerlord you actually know where they are which gets more helpful the closer you get to them. I honestly dont have a problem finding people in bannerlord, id just prefer not to have to interrupt what I'm doing to travel to them.

You know I agree with this part.

Trust me I know it was my suggestion and discussion with him 🤣. You are correct they've only fully denied a "universal" messenger, but any solution we are looking for is apparently deemed backlog which gives me little hope of a real solution.

I think literally everyone in this post agrees the quest is **** and wants it to be improved or not exist. I think I'm the only person who said they liked it at first.

Don't think anyone said to not complain? Workarounds were provided to try to give OP a way to move forward to which OP said they wouldnt work to which proof was provided to show it did work. Multiple posts to try to get someone ignorant of the potential workarounds to understand is worth it in my book, especially when in reality its not just OP reading it.
I think we agree on enough that the parts on which we disagree are not worth disagreeing over.
 
never knew I would miss the simple dialogue options of warband:
- what are you and your man doing?
- how goes the war?
- do you know the location of x? (and. Yes a hint at the destination is more helpful than the place the NPC has been)
- would you follow me?
- this fief is in danger would you go defend is?

And the option to talk to the siege leader to start the siege earlier.
I am sure I misremember some of the lines, its been a long time sinds I player warband.

It is a shame that the dialogue tree hasn't been expanded.

Using 'N' to find the nobles, works to an extend. but it is not fun gameplay and doesn't fit the immersion of the time period.
asking other people if they now the whereabouts of important nobles seems more believable, even better if they provide more useful information.


 
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