For the love of God, stop giving me castles

[Hughes]

So I've been a vassal of Harlaus' for at least two years, although admittedly I have my eyes on leading my own kingdom one day. I managed to recover Dhirim from the Khergits for him, and was awarded the town, which has operated as my base for some time now.

Since then, I'd spent time fortifying my fiefs, trading, and training my men. One day, as I was furtively gathering support for kingship with my companions, a border dispute led the Nords to declare war on Harlaus. Swadia started well by taking Knudarr Castle, but the Nords swept in from the north and south and took Derchios (a castle neighboring on Dhirim), then the town of Suno at the heart of the kingdom. With the vague ambition of a future kingdom, I did manage to retake Derchios, and Harlaus granted it to me. I fought long and hard against them, and Suno changed hands a number of times, but after months of fighting I withdrew and let Harlaus and his marshal, Clais, deal with them. Before long they signed a treaty, but weren't able to regain Suno. I went back to my errands, enjoying the peace - only for a short while, as it turned out.

As I was discussing the contents of our larder with my wife, the Khergits, Vaegirs and Rhodoks all declared war on Harlaus, within a few days of each other. Before anyone could do anything about it, the Rhodoks took Uxhal and Vyincord in the east; the Khergits had less luck but managed to regain Uhhun Castle, an old property of theirs, in the north. The Vaegirs appeared outside the walls of Dhirim with a massive host; I gathered what lords I could and sent them with their armies into the town, and together we fought  Yaroglek off.

I didn't want to fight half of Calradia, but simply resigning my oath to Harlaus wasn't enough; I'd lose everything if I did that. The only way to keep my lands was to be refused a fief, and rebel. I figured now was my chance. With Harlaus distracted on three fronts, I could take a castle, insist that he award it to me, and when he didn't, rebel against him and keep Dhirim, Derchios and the new castle for myself. Having run errands for, fought alongside, rescued, or released half the lords in Calradia, I figured I'd get at least a few who'd come over to my side, and quickly fortify our position. Time for a rebellion.

Obviously it was best to target neighboring castles, since those would be easiest to defend as they were close to the giant garrison I'd been building in Dhirim and Derchios. I went for Tibault (then in the hands of the Vaegirs), and took it quickly. I demanded Harlaus give it to me - unfortunately, he said yes. Now I had three fiefs to defend, and was at war with three kingdoms.

Some weeks were spent recruiting men and running back and forth between my three fiefs defending them against various armies, until the enemy hosts were depleted and I had a little breathing room. It was time to attack, take another castle, have it refused me, and rebel against Harlaus. I went for Dramug, with a light garrison of about a hundred men.

Unfortunately I discovered that those hundred men were almost all Vaegir Marksmen, so I suffered some losses in the initial assault, but once my infantry was on the walls it fell to me also. I demanded Harlaus give it to me, confident that he wouldn't give me a fourth fief. He did. Now I had three castles and a town to protect. At that moment Harlaus signed a peace with the Khergits, and shortly after the Rhodoks, so I was in slightly less danger. Only the Vaegirs still waged war against Swadia.

There was only one thing left to do: keep capturing castles until Harlaus refused me, and I could rebel while keeping all my lands. The Vaegirs had taken Knudarr, and it was the nearest neighboring castle, so I garrisoned Dramug as best I could and took my men to the old Nord fortress. It fell to me also, and now the time for rebellion had come.

Except it didn't. He gave it to me. I now have four castles and a town in my name, I'm still a Swadian vassal, and the Vaegirs are still at war with us. For the love of God, what do I have to do to get refused a fief? How many can I have? When will he stop saying yes to me?

 

[RalliX]

Wow. Just wow.
It sucks for you my friend, sucks indeed.
I have an idea though. Make Harlaus not like you. If you're going to rebel, do it the right way.
Piss him off to the point where he wouldn't even think of giving you another fief, then rebel! 

 

[Bulzeeb]

^Unfortunately, as the below link shows(at least in Vanilla M&B, and it appears to not have changed), relationship with your liege adds very little to determining who receives land. The link is to a post that explains and provides a tweak for the way fiefs are awarded. If you really wanted to ensure that you do not receive the fief, you could change the numbers that provide a bonus for being the one who captured the fief - by default it adds 50% to your sub-total "score", but you can change that so that it reduces your score immensely. As always, back-up your scripts.txt file before tweaking, as the tweak is pretty old, though I've used it in 1.131 and it's worked beautifully.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,46290.msg1219470.html#msg1219470

Alternatively, as the post explains, you could utilize the inherent randomness of fief distribution to your advantage. Your subtotal is multiplied by a random number chosen between 50-100, thus giving you a huge range that your final score could end up being, and the same is true of the faction's other vassals. So save right before Harlaus decides and quit if it doesn't work, and repeat until desired outcome is achieved.


Then again, what with the new "Who do you think should receive insert-fief-here?" and the appearance of a more "democratic" process of deciding land, this could all be bologna

 

[Hughes]

Since we're still at war with the Vaegirs, and they're also at war with the Khergits, maybe I'll try to expand in that direction, and try to secure a corner of Calradia rather than the middle. All I can think to do is continue capturing castles - and maybe a town - in order to get refused a fief. He has to decide against me SOME day. I just have no idea how I'm supposed to defend all these lands if any new wars start.

 

[Bobsama]

Since we're still at war with the Vaegirs, and they're also at war with the Khergits, maybe I'll try to expand in that direction, and try to secure a corner of Calradia rather than the middle. All I can think to do is continue capturing castles - and maybe a town - in order to get refused a fief. He has to decide against me SOME day. I just have no idea how I'm supposed to defend all these lands if any new wars start.

Protip: don't defend non-vital assets. Lose some of your castles and then recapture them.

 

[Silfir]

Looks like Harlaus is smarter than you thought - he realizes that the future of his kingdom, and his presence on the throne, depends on keeping you fight his battles. He has no choice but to placate your every demand, since a rebellion on your side would mean the certain death of the kingdom of Swadia and by extension the end of his reign. He's speculating that if he lets you squash his other enemies for long enough, his loyal troops will be able to concentrate on squashing your inevitable rebellion. He is ruthlessly exploiting the fact that you cannot get away with just claiming sovereignty; the people will never support you unless you can proclaim a just reason for the rebellion.

Looks like he played you fine. Your only option is to either accept that you'll stay Harlaus' vassal, or take revenge in another way - support Isolla's quest for the throne. You won't be king, but at least you get to spit on Harlaus' grave.

At least that's how it looks at first glance! Possibly unbeknownst to you, you have over 20 potential allies: All the other lords. The more often Harlaus stumps them in order to keep you, the higher the pressure on him will be. You can help this come along by taking out one of the other factions - some of their lords will join the Swadians, and they will naturally demand some fiefs of their own - and since they are guaranteed to not have any yet, eventually Harlaus will have to give in. Just make sure that every conquest the Swadians make is led by you.



(Simplified version: You've probably got a huge renown score or something along those lines. I'd just keep trying. If you're going to be king, responsibility for this many fiefs should be good training.)

 

[killer110]

i had the same problem but it was slightly worse. the only fief i have right now is Narra which was awarded to me after i lost Talberl and Grunwalder castle. we were at war with the Nords and i wanted to make my own kingdom so i captured telrogh castle(someone give me a spell check)and demanded that King Harlaus the Fat, as i like to call him, give it to me, he then decides to give it to me but i "decline the honour" so that he wouldn't give me a fief in the future and i wondered who else he'd give it to. and here's the problem, no matter how many times i decline he always decideds to confer it to me(bug?) so i just accepted it and let the Nords take it back.

i'm now playing on a different mod and i can't get that save file so it doesn't really matter anymore but i just wanted to share my experience (King Harlaus the Fat must die!! )

 

[Hughes]

Looks like Harlaus is smarter than you thought - he realizes that the future of his kingdom, and his presence on the throne, depends on keeping you fight his battles.

Damn, of course, you're right. With Suno lost to the Nords and Uxhal to the Rhodoks, my Dhirim is his only town left besides Praven. If Harlaus slights me in any way he knows he'll have a major rebellion on his hands, and if he doesn't, he's got a capable general regaining old territory (and new) for him. Sigh.

Thankfully the Khergits just switched sides and went after the Vaegirs, so they're taking some of the heat off us; since my properties now make up the bulk of the Swadian Kingdom, I've got a big target on my head for any expansion by the other kingdoms into Swadia. I got some more time in and have been furiously recruiting all manner of troops before I get attacked again.

 

[w00d]

just locate the claimant and your rebellion will have begun. Plus u get a pretty decent companion to fight with.

 

[Hughes]

Alright, now I'm having the problem someone else mentioned also having.

Harlaus didn't award me a castle, AND I didn't get the option to rebel. I just got a message that the castle I took single-handedly was being awarded to Harlaus himself. What happened to the rebellion option?

All these garrisoned fiefs are starting to bankrupt me. I need to start a rebellion so I can hand them off to some lords that join my side.

 

[Khan Coyote]

t i "decline the honour" so that he wouldn't give me a fief in the future and i wondered who else he'd give it to. and here's the problem, no matter how many times i decline he always decideds to confer it to me(bug?) so i just accepted it and let the Nords take it back.

I had a similar problem... as a female !
I requested a castle for my husband, but Ragnar gave it to me. I refused but he insisted like 5 times before giving it to a random slacker that was not even at the battle.

 

[Hughes]

After trying to take fiefs and get them refused to me, I've got upwards of 2000 men garrisoned around Swadia, many of them high-tier units. If I resign my oath I'll lose them all. Anyone know of a way to rebel without losing my fiefs?

 

[morphwan]

just locate the claimant and your rebellion will have begun. Plus u get a pretty decent companion to fight with.

I would just like to point out in regards to your situation, not only can you go find and take up the clamaint quest of Lady Isolla in order to get out of Harleus' incompetent hands. But no where in the world does it say that just because you take up a claimant quest, you have to see it to the end. You could just take up with the true queen of swadia, spend a little time getting "her" kingdom(or would it be "queendom") in order and then just go talk to her and say you don't think your rebellion will prosper. Will she be sad and disappointed? Yes. Will she leave Calradia? Yes. Is it dishonorable? Yes. But you get your own kingdom and get to spit in the eyes of the Feaster King............Is it an effective alternative? Yes

 

[Hughes]

You're a genius.

 

[Hughes]

Done. I found her and took up her cause, switched all my excellently garrisoned castles and towns to the red rebel faction, and now the fun really begins. One thing I wonder is, will the lords who join me (because I'm supporting her) stay on after I tell her to take a hike? I have a feeling they will, but...

 

[nordman101]

Good luck. Soon we shall all hail you as King Hughes! 

 

[Remedius]

Dear ole Queen Harlaus ( don't be deceived by the beard ) - he's just a girl that can't say no

Perhaps sidle up to him/her and politely ask for the crown?

 

[nordman101]

Or just make her use a strap-on willy with you.

 

[morphwan]

Done. I found her and took up her cause, switched all my excellently garrisoned castles and towns to the red rebel faction, and now the fun really begins. One thing I wonder is, will the lords who join me (because I'm supporting her) stay on after I tell her to take a hike? I have a feeling they will, but...

sorry it took so long to reply. My answer is I have no idea, as I've never tryed after persuading a vassal to join her cause, I usually just secure what I really want, dump the claimant, then try to persuade them to join Me! let me know how it works out for you.

 

[Hughes]

Thanks for the help It's coming along. It ended up a bit complicated, but it worked! And with 100% difficulty (including Campaign AI on Good), it's proving quite a challenge, I have to say.

Things are underway. Before I found Isolla, the Khergits managed to switch sides yet again, setting themselves against Harlaus and the Vaegirs. In the tavern in Suno I found a traveler who told me she was in Khudan, currently held by Sanjar Khan, with whom we were again at war. With a path to rebellion on my hands it was damn frustrating that now, knowing what I had to do, I couldn't bloody get to her: she was visiting an enemy town. I can sneak into towns, but not the lord's castle. The only way to get to her was by conquering Khudan single-handedly. I assembled a force of infantry and archers from Dhirim and headed out north, took one look at their garrison and I realized it wasn't worth it. Over 300 high-tier units, including about 75 veteran horse archers, and 3 Khergit lords with their armies. Time to wait for the girl to pack up and go petition some other lords.

At around this time the Nords again attacked, throwing in their lot with the Khergits; Ragnar was still upset over the loss of Knuddar, apparently. I assembled a field army of entirely cavalry and set out to patrol the Swadian lands until such time as Isolla had moved on from Khudan. While I was traveling the Nords took Suno; I was too late to save it, but my cavalry came across their host returning, wounded and depleted (and probably drunk) from their hard-fought victory and broke the back of their entire field army. Soon after I thankfully found a traveler who told me Isolla had moved on to Uxhall (now held by the Rhodoks) and so I headed over there to start the rebellion.

It worked. Isolla fell for the ruse and in a few days' time all of my lands were in revolt against Harlaus. I broke the news to her that we weren't going to support her any more and she left Calradia forever, leaving me in control of the rebel faction. I discovered months later that word of my betrayal got around, as various lords I encountered admonished me for my treatment of her, but I suffered no ill effects beyond that, with the exception of a slightly guilty conscience.

Meanwhile, in Swadia, the Khergits gave up the fight and it turned out the Nords carried on their war for only a short time longer, but long enough to force Harlaus to treat with me, as he didn't want a war on three fronts and was down to a single town - Praven - and a handful of castles. As I had peace and was ready to start bringing lords to my side, I sent my friends off on missions to find out which kingdom had the most landless, disgruntled nobles, that might be tempted to join me. While they were away I secured my feifs and raised some money, but all those garrisoned lands were a massive hemorrhage in my bank account; I was something on the order of 8,000 denars in the red each month. For this reason - perhaps even more than for security - I needed lords to take over my garrisons. Nonetheless, all my lands were in my name and I realized that until I had unawarded fiefs under my control, the only lords that would join would be those that I myself convinced in person.

As I was trying to staunch the flow of denars from my treasury, I was already traveling from town to town doing some peacetime trading, so I took this opportunity to speak furtively with local lords in various kingdoms - such that could be gotten alone, which were few. The ones I could, and were fond of - honorable men with great renown, such as Count Klargus - were either already landed, unwilling to betray their liege, or, in some cases, too honest to even speak with me of such conspiracies.

While I was grappling with this state of affairs, Ragnar gave me an opportunity. Perhaps because Knuddar was no longer held by Harlaus but now part of my rebel kingdom, the Nords turned their attention away from Swadia, making peace with them, and on the same day struck at me, looting several villages. As I knew Suno had just been taken (and, thanks to my cavalry, their garrisons now mainly stocked with raw recruits), I brought a part of my veteran infantry garrison from Dhirim to Suno. I'd gambled well - it had only a handful of footmen and huntsmen, and we took it quickly.
The war with the Nords didn't last long, as they were already fatigued from battling Swadia; it didn't help them that I came across Ragnar's host, still stuffed with green recruits, and managed to capture him alive. Once released (for a much-needed sum of 10,000 denars), he offered peace, though with no lords on my side I hadn't pressed him beyond the initial capture of Suno and a few encounters in the field. Even though the enemy was sorely depleted before it began, it was an anxious and fearful war, as I had so many lands to defend single-handedly, and I was glad when it was over.

Since then we've had a very happy peace. With Suno, Ruluns and Lyindah unassigned, lords have been flocking to my banner. Most are petty traitors with little honor and less renown, and I shared out the castles and villages largely on a first-come, first-served basis. I awarded them in turn, that no lord would be ill-served and bitter, and I made sure to give villages in the wide-open, wooded country between Dhirim and Suno to any Khergit lords that joined me, as when patrolling their fiefs their horses would help them catch up the forest bandits that plague the area. Suno I wanted to hold on to, in hopes that a worthy lord would join me - someone with enough renown to guard it well; but this was dangerous, as it was a rich town with a weak garrison, and I feared that at any second one of the other rulers would take notice of our fledgling little kingdom and swoop in to take it from me. The longer I waited, the more desperate the situation became.

Pleasant as it was to be home, at peace, and surrounded with new vassals, I was not long content to hang about Dhirim waiting for some great lord to appear and swear allegiance to me. I took to riding out on recruiting runs, bolstering my vassals' armies with veterans, and doing a bit of trading, as well as training my companions in fights with sea raiders and desert bandits. During these days of peace I watched as the Khergits swooped down from the north, plucking Khudan and Rivacheg from the Vaegirs, as well as Ahmerrad and some castles from the Sarranids in the east; we were still being ignored when the Nords, Rhodoks, Vaegirs and Sarranids struck back at the horsemen. Even Sanjar Khan could not stand long against the combined might of four kingdoms, and they were losing all their towns and castles when I received news that my vassal Bracha, a small-time lord that I'd given the village of Yalibe to look after, had inexplicably been imprisoned by the Sarranids in Barriye.

I had no idea as to what he could have possibly done to get thrown in jail, as we were not at war with them (tavern brawl? romantic dalliance with the wrong lady? it seemed like a bug). I spoke to his sister, who could not have been less concerned for his safety. Still, I certainly could have improved my relationship with him (he was angry about some fiefs that had gone to lords other than himself), so I set out for the desert with my companions and some casks of wine for sale.

In Barriye I broke into the jail and found him imprisoned along with several Khergit lords - at least four - including Sanjar Khan. We were not at war with the Sarranids and I certainly had no reason to do favors for the Khergits, but the fact that we had a handful of castle guards to contend with on the way out encouraged my largesse, and after a brief scuffle we all escaped. I received a great many thanks for my help, but in the end it was of little use to them, and by the time Bracha and I returned to Dhirim the mighty Khergits were wiped from the map. The Sarranids moved into their steppes, taking Ichamur, Tulga, and Narra; Rivacheg fell to the Nords and Khudan was returned to the Vaegirs, while the lands from Yalen to Halmar are a broad quilt of bright Rhodok green.

I was taking stock of this state of affairs when my father-in-law appeared at my court. Almost three years ago I'd made sure to marry well - my wife Sonadel comes from a large and important Swadian family, whose patriarch, Delinard, is a powerful lord with great renown. As long as I'd known him he'd been a vassal of Ragnar's, having switched allegiances early on - a practice he seems not to have abandoned, as here he was on my doorstep, army in tow, ready to swear allegiance to his own son-in-law. I took his oath gladly.

I'd found my lord for Suno, and just in time. Harlaus declared war the next day. now it's time to see if my little kingdom stands.