FOR TALEWORLDS: THE GAME REALLY NEEDS A FOREIGN INVASION SYSTEM (DESCRIPTION INSIDE)

DOES THE GAME NEED AN INVASION MECHANIC?

  • Yes!

  • No


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Gerrodot

Veteran
I welcome all participants of the forum. For a long time I did not know how to start this topic, where to start, how to show this topic important for our game. This topic has been raised many times on the forum, but for a short time, and then subsided, and to be honest, I do not really know until now, so I apologize for some crumpled narrative and crooked English, but I hope the essence of my message will be clear to everyone.

As a person who is fond of global games, including the Mount, I played 3 full games that ended with a complete capture of the map, and the more time passed, the more clearly I realized that the game lacked something global, some very difficult challenges for a huge player empire and a late-stage AI empire,

In general, I will be brief - THE GAME REALLY NEEDS THE INVASION MECHANICS!

As you remember, for the original Mount, the developers planned a kind of Invasion of the Black Knights – huge aggressive and strong stacks came, crushing everyone in their path, but either because they did not have a clear historical basis, or because of lack of time or for other reasons, but they never lived to see the release.

And the more I played Banner, I was clearly aware of the need for invasions, and several factions, of course, that we are not talking about the black knights.


SOME BASIC POSTULATES OF THE IDEA OF INVASIONS:

1. There should be several invasions and different factions,
2. They must occur during the late game during the formation of the player's or AI's powerful empires,
3. These invasions should be VERY DIFFICULT to resist, it should be hot even for the mighty empires that have taken over the entire map,
4. There must be some new mechanics,
5. These mechanics will allow you to feel the game more complete and interesting.
6. This feature must be disabled and / or configured at the beginning of the game so that the player has a choice.

So, for me, there should be at least two factions for the invasion, definitely not one, and they should be radically different from each other, let's start with something more familiar

1
THE NORDS 'PREDATORY RAIDS ON THE COAST AND THE NORDS' ATTEMPT TO ESTABLISH A KINGDOM IN CALRADIA

- to be honest, everything is quite logical and understandable-The Nords from the Northern Islands make raids on the coast of Calradia, in this regard, there are several logical ideas
- There should be several raids – each of them is stronger than the previous one,
- These raids should lead to the Warband plot at least logically,
- The initial raids are only predatory-however, for example, in the last raid, the Nords can capture cities and castles and establish their own kingdom,
- Sturgia should have a good relationship with the Nords for obvious reasons, at least until the foundation of the Nords of their kingdom, respectively, the Vikings are extremely aggressive towards the rest of the kingdoms,
- The Nords should be very different in terms of troops, ranks, equipment, and further with the Sturgians, the latter can be made even more similar to the Slavs, there should be a greater allocation of Vegirs
- thus, a new player can appear on the map of Calradia, with their own troops, clans, etc.

QzjJbYhqVas.jpg



Since the Nords are not supposed to be the only invading force, and they are more or less familiar to us, we will now touch on something more unique…

2
THE INVASION OF AN UNSEEN ENEMY

To be honest, with this option, I had to think for a very long time– who has a historical, at least partially based, but a color that distinguishes everyone from other factions, as well as carrying a threat – and to be honest, suddenly came a rather successful option, often flashing on the forum

THE AZTECS
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You may ask, what is this nonsense? And to be honest, at first I thought the same thing, but given their color, given
"this enemy's appearance and equipment must be radically different from anything seen in Calradia."
- color that has a relative historical basis, in contrast to the same Black Knights
- the cult of war and extreme aggressiveness without compromise
.
And finally, one of the reasons why I prefer the Aztecs as an invasion, namely, the Target

What brought these aliens to earth? And why should it inspire us with terror and a sense of danger?
Gold and other treasures? Too corny. Land? Too primitive, too

And then the answer came literally on the surface-prisoners for Sacrifice! This will really allow them to be perceived as cruel opponents – they came to Calradia for prisoners to sacrifice to their cults!

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Of course a lot of ideas come up in this regard here are just a few

- if the Aztecs take over the cities, they devastate them, they are not interested in gold,
- They sacrifice the prisoners (the player must have some time, for example, 10-15 days, to save the captured comrades, otherwise they will be executed),
- with the captured soldiers the same, but with them it should be easier, because the Aztecs should be more interested in noble prisoners,
- the invasion from across the sea should be one, but very powerful, and from different directions
- their army must have one drawback (no cavalry, although some kind of team of Indians can be used – for example, mounted Apaches) or not have them at all, they must be very difficult to fight.
- the player can serve them (for example, collect prisoners) but can not lead this faction, as well as all other kingdoms can make peace and or unite against the Invasion.

And so on, there are a lot of ideas and I now understand why the Aztecs often pop up in conversations about the invasion.



Actually, this is where I want to end my story, I hope that the developers will pay attention to this post, I also ask you to actively discuss it, it will be nice to read, because this is really necessary for the game, and the sooner the better, because the DLC is still very far away and this mechanic is already necessary.

I think the choice of factions is ideal, but there are really debatable issues in which you need to listen to the forum participants
- when should the Intrusions take place? What strengths and weaknesses should the Nords and Aztecs have? What should be the diplomacy between the other kingdoms

And remember - the problem is not in the presence or absence of a function-but in its competent implementation, and this is possible!


And much more.
 
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Well I like this idea. It'll be great to suddenly face some ridiculously hard foes, especially when you think "now i have conquered it all!"
I don't know about the aztecs though... They could be cool and diverse but at the same time can be tottally out of place.
Nice idea though
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
This literally already exists -Aztecs and all and even more with the Crusades (and Huns) taking place in Nova Aetas mod for Warband


Its a nice post but been suggested many, many times and the devs are surely aware and dont care to implement leaving such matters for modders.
 
1. There should be several invasions and different factions,
2. They must occur during the late game during the formation of the player's or AI's powerful empires,
3. These invasions should be VERY DIFFICULT to resist, it should be hot even for the mighty empires that have taken over the entire map,
4. There must be some new mechanics,
5. These mechanics will allow you to feel the game more complete and interesting.

Have you ever suffered through endgame invasions in most games? They suck, they're never challenging or fun, they're just a mindless one dimensional grind against a uniform enemy. Warband was grindy enough and bannerlord is even worse, so I don't see how this helps.

Regarding 4 and 5, how do you possibly make a invasion of borderline unstoppable enemies interesting? No matter what new gimmick you add, you're always going to be doing the same battle over and over to whittle them down. Unless you somehow make every battle different, nobody will bother playing that far.
 
Agreed with that.
My personal opinion is that the endgame is when you are trying to end the game, not prolong it for the sake of prolonging it. Some game designers and some players just try to add more hours to a campaign, regardless if it's in an interesting or grindy way. Typical anal retentive behavior. :razz:
I hate this logic: "Well, you are about the win the game, so have some grinding instead and quit out of boredom."

An invasion would be an interesting addition mid-game. It shouldn't be tied to player's level or otherwise tied to player's progress, so progress won't be punished or gamed somehow.
It should be a new global problem for every kingdom, whether they were ready for it or not, not a final challenge for the player.
If you want to make a final challenge for the player, make fighting a stupidly big army a victory condition, and they don't need to be invaders.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
1. There should be several invasions and different factions,
2. They must occur during the late game during the formation of the player's or AI's powerful empires,
3. These invasions should be VERY DIFFICULT to resist, it should be hot even for the mighty empires that have taken over the entire map,
4. There must be some new mechanics,
5. These mechanics will allow you to feel the game more complete and interesting.
Then that is going to force players towards fairly optimal playstyles designed to build the strength necessary to defeat the invasion, not what's actually interesting or fun for them.
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I'd rather have these faction exist and do some raiding sometimes and have the player able to interact with them and possibly do quest for them and receive special items rewards or special recruits from their culture! Then later if they player takes certain actions it could allow for an large invasion of this faction, player's actions could determine the target too.

But of course, let player make a choice? TW no no no
Let the player get anything nice? No no no
Let anything benefit (rather then annoy) the player? No no no

You gotta do all the same quest over and over, recruit same troops, fight same enemies, that's the game the end.
OH don't go, we're adding DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF TREES AND CRAP to different places..... not now it gonna take long long time BUT SOMEDAY: More and less tress and crap!
 

Antaeus

Veteran
Hrm. Another Total War mechanic. Super-stacks of super enemies pre-timed to invade. Yay!

Maybe we need Atilla or a Mongol horde to spawn with 20 parties of high tier horse archers. That will teach us for being bored with what we have.
 

Gerrodot

Veteran
It is immediately clear that the post did not read further than the title (about 20 stacks of horse archers, there was no speech at all), with regard to the Total War, this mechanic was competently implemented in Medieval 2 Total War, for example, about the last miserable Total wars, there is no speech at all, as such mechanics are in most games from Paradox Interactive, so I advise you to enrich the game experience not only with Attila and read what they write in the post.
 
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Gerrodot

Veteran
Then that is going to force players towards fairly optimal playstyles designed to build the strength necessary to defeat the invasion, not what's actually interesting or fun for them.
I understand your concerns, and they are well-founded, I myself thought about it, but here the question is not in the presence or absence of a function (I think this is generally a stupid argument - it's like removing for example the Crises of their Stellaris) and in a competent implementation, and with regard to preparation, there are several points that can clarify this

-The banner is still not as unbalanced as the Warband, where one on the wall could cut down 100 people (I exaggerate of course, but I think the message is clear)

- you can not tie the raids of the Nords, the attempt of the Nords to establish their kingdom and the Harvest of victims by the Aztecs to a certain date - blurring can occur in decades, both in the middle of the game and at the end, so that the player can not fully prepare

- all the preparation is stopped by strong stacks of invading armies and their huge number, and the process is made more interesting by new mechanics and so on,

so I am sure that the problem is more than solvable
 
With regard to the Total War, this mechanic was competently implemented in Medieval 2 Total War, for example, about the last miserable Total wars, there is no speech at all, as such mechanics are in most games from Paradox Interactive, so I advise you to enrich the game experience not only with Attila and read what they write in the post.

In medieval 2 the Mongol invasions were just as boring, and if the AI failed to contain them you would be fighting Mongols the entire game because of how many free armies they could spit out. It wasn't challenging either, because just throwing a hundred thousand enemies at you is probably the single laziest thing a game designer can do, and it becomes more about perseverance than skill which is never good
 

Apocal

Master Knight
It is immediately clear that the post did not read further than the title (about 20 stacks of horse archers, there was no speech at all), with regard to the Total War, this mechanic was competently implemented in Medieval 2 Total War, for example...
MTW2 was exactly the example I had in mind, because you needed to be able to get to their entry provinces and fortify them.
 

danEN

Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
All that does is add to the feel of constant war, I'd rather they add some features that add depth to the late game outside of waring.
 

R1919

Regular
They are still struggling with Khuzait snowballing "issue" because too many ppl were whining and you say "Invasion" huh
 
Poll closed after 13 hours.
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They are still struggling with Khuzait snowballing "issue" because too many ppl were whining and you say "Invasion" huh
Good point. Spring an invasion in their lands - problem solved!
 

Gerrodot

Veteran
They are still struggling with Khuzait snowballing "issue" because too many ppl were whining and you say "Invasion" huh
Is this problem still so urgent? In the last two parties, I personally was dominated by other states, I do not know what so clung to these Khuzaites= they have a purely objective superiority.
 
If it's optional I would be ok with it but if I'm forced to deal with it every playthrough then I would not be interested. Imho it just adds more late game grind, of a different sort, to the game.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
No, such invasions are just boring and annoying to deal with, not fun at all.
They were boring in Total War games, they are boring in Stellaris, and they would be just as boring in Bannerlord.
 
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