For both immersion's sake AND the gameplay... no XP for slaughtering shattered soldiers.

Users who are viewing this thread

Imagine playing without the "Fight to the death" mod. Morale is so broken in this game it's not worthwhile to even develop it further imo, 50 troops vs 50 troops and 35 troops abandon the fight what kind of nonsense is that. Highly recommend fight to the death as it makes battles last longer.

oh sounds good... if they don't improve the bad morale mechanic (or remove it) I might have to play with this mod. I don't understand why we need the troops to route like that. It doesn't make the game more challenging, and it's also not so immersive when everyone just runs away instantly... they would not charge in the first place if they don't see themselves winning. And when you are in combat, how can you tell your friends died so instantly?

It prolongs combat in a bad way, as in having to chase enemy troops...
 
Last edited:
Morale is so broken in this game it's not worthwhile to even develop it further imo, 50 troops vs 50 troops and 35 troops abandon the fight what kind of nonsense is that.
I'm playing without that mod and game is quite fine in that sense. If your 50 villager-ass recruits face with 50 T4, it's extremely expected to see that 35 of them are running away like a chicken. How can you force someone to fight while he is aware of the fact that he is gonna get crushed?
If you are seeing that T4 units are running away while facing 50 villagers, then you have a bug. Report that.
 
I'm playing without that mod and game is quite fine in that sense. If your 50 villager-ass recruits face with 50 T4, it's extremely expected to see that 35 of them are running away like a chicken. How can you force someone to fight while he is aware of the fact that he is gonna get crushed?
If you are seeing that T4 units are running away while facing 50 villagers, then you have a bug. Report that.
Having units run away from battles adds nothing to the game, if they aren't willing to die they shouldn't be willing to fight in the first place.
 
That's not how battle works
Tell me what about having troops flee from an active battlefield and letting themselves be ridden down 1 by 1 is A. Realistic, B. A game mechanic that adds value to the game.

Morale is dealt with horribly in this game, it is not realistic, it adds no value, If you want a fun game experience I suggest installing "Fight to the Death".
 
Player: "You are surrounded surrender now group of 40 bandits."

Bandits: "**** you we'll fight you to the death!"

Player: Okay then.

Bandits after 10 of their allies get killed: " I didn't mean it! Time to run away!!!!"

The whole point of an engagementt like this is the bandits already had ample opportunity to surrender and CHOSE not to, why the **** would they then decide to immediately try to flee on the battlefield? They are SURROUNDED.
 
Last edited:
Tell me what about having troops flee from an active battlefield and letting themselves be ridden down 1 by 1 is A. Realistic, B. A game mechanic that adds value to the game.
A: It's realistic because that's exactly what happened in many many many times in history. It also makes sense, if you think about. Assuming that you are extremely hyped soldier which is just recruited 10 days ago. You are seeing that you have 49 more people like you, which keeps your spirit up. And if you face 50 other people, you would say "Eh that can't be hard, we are 50/50 anyway" but once the battle begins and you start to realize that those other 50 dudes are chopping your mates like soft butter, you would start to see that this won't end up well for you and you would leave the battle if you can.
B: Having units run away from battles forces you to be strategic. If you are afraid of units getting routed and still using your low-level units to face an experienced enemy right from the start of the battle, it shows you are a bad strategist. You shouldn't let your numbers go down fast in battle since this effects unit morale. Same goes for the enemy. You can think that you can win a battle with 10 horse archers against 50 looters. You can, in theory. But it's very likely that your stupid horse archers run towards them and get killed in-crowd. And even killing 5 horse archer can show others that they can be killed quite easily and would they take the bet against 5 vs 50 now? I doubt. And hence they can flee ( even this scenario doesn't happen in the game btw - fleeing isn't that fragile )

Player: "You are surrounded surrender now group of 40 bandits."
Bandits: "**** you we'll fight you to the death!"
Player: Okay then.
Bandits after 10 of their allies get killed: "Time to run away!!!!"
Again, read the A. If 40 bandits are standing against to 300 peopled army, then that's something else. But it's not related to morale. In theory, they shouldn't fight with you in the first place - which happens in the game.
 
Battles last for less than 2 minutes anyways your argument about losing units fast or slow has no merit. The morale system, the prisoner system, and the execution systems are all examples of poorly implemented game mechanics because they discourage the player from using them by either punishing the player too much or by being nearly useless in application. Mods are truly the only salvation this game has to being an enjoyable experience for dynamic and immersive gameplay due to the oversimplification of the product in order to make it more accessible to casuals.
 
Last edited:
I have an experiment for you: Go to custom battles, put 500 infantry on one side from empire, and 500 infantry on the other side from empire. All have the same stats and equipment. Tell me how long it takes for a group of them to decide to flee. All the fleeing system does is allows for armies who are already losing the fight to lose even faster, if that's something you value in your vanilla game experience by all means enjoy it. But for us sane people who actually want to enjoy the game, I think we'll stick with the mods.
 
I don't care what mod you play if you have a solid argument about why TW should remove flee mechanic, I would expect to hear it.
".. if they aren't willing to die they shouldn't be willing to fight in the first place. " is literally the shallowest logic I have ever seen about morale system. You are not even saying it's draining fast, you are simply saying that it should be removed. Battles last for less than 2 minutes not because they flee because they either fight like retards or die quickly.
Tell me how long it takes for a group of them to decide to flee
Just did that with 200v200 with exactly same units. They started to flee when we were 35. So ~82.5% of army perished and they decided to run away. Your argument is invalid.
 
I don't care what mod you play if you have a solid argument about why TW should remove flee mechanic, I would expect to hear it.
".. if they aren't willing to die they shouldn't be willing to fight in the first place. " is literally the shallowest logic I have ever seen about morale system. You are not even saying it's draining fast, you are simply saying that it should be removed. Battles last for less than 2 minutes not because they flee because they either fight like retards or die quickly.
Just did that with 200v200 with exactly same units. They started to flee when we were 35. So ~82.5% of army perished and they decided to run away. Your argument is invalid.


There are several factors at play as to why battles last 2 minutes. Low armor values, Stupid commander Ai, and not least of all the Morale system.
I said that the morale system is so broken that it isn't even worth spending development time on, if you want to take that to mean it should be removed in vanilla then whatever draw whatever conclusions you will from that. I'm merely suggesting an alternative to the original thread posters comments regarding the system, fight to the death which is in my opinion a better system for the current game.
 
Last edited:
if you want to take that to mean it should be removed in vanilla then whatever draw whatever conclusions you will from that.
You are saying that fight to the death is better and somehow more realistic, which means the game would be better off if they remove the morale system. And I'm saying, morale system is fine - and the current version is realistic in it's core, can be tweaked a little but removal isn't the way to go. No sane person would continue fighting with the enemy after losing 82.5% of their comrades. Do you like unrealistic version? Sure, I don't care. Play with mod

If you can make a battle last 5 minutes or longer without literally just sitting still and not moving, i'll get on my hands and knees and suck you off.
The argument isn't about how long battles last? It isn't even related to flee mechanic. If you really want to know how you can make battles last longer, check this he is demonstrating how this can happen with only tweaking already existing values and he is not even touching anything about morale ( no sucking required, but if you insist, ask Terco )
 
You are saying that fight to the death is better and somehow more realistic, which means the game would be better off if they remove the morale system. And I'm saying, morale system is fine - and the current version is realistic in it's core, can be tweaked a little but removal isn't the way to go. No sane person would continue fighting with the enemy after losing 82.5% of their comrades. Do you like unrealistic version? Sure, I don't care. Play with mod


The argument isn't about how long battles last? It isn't even related to flee mechanic. If you really want to know how you can make battles last longer, check this he is demonstrating how this can happen with only tweaking already existing values and he is not even touching anything about morale ( no sucking required, but if you insist, ask Terco )

It is objectively better for gameplay, whether or not it is more realistic is up for debate (not one i'm really concerned with or interested in having). Unless you think chasing down units is a fun gameplay mechanic that is, which... okay...? I guess if it suits you man.

To address your point about morale not impacting battle times: If 20% of your troops are fleeing from the battle and not fighting, your battle will not last nearly as long as if that 20% had remained in the fight until the combat was resolved.
 
As for morale system - it works fine (far from perfect, but better than any WB mod), don't forget that leadership and tactics percs matter alot in large battles when it comes to routing, also formations like shieldwall make troops more resilient to panic.
I agree that 20-30 bandits even trying to figh vs 150 elites is complete nonsense though.
To address your point about morale not impacting battle times: If 20% of your troops are fleeing from the battle and not fighting, your battle will not last nearly as long as if that 20% had remained in the fight until the combat was resolved.
Thing is when you're afraid of death your only thought will be about survival, unless you're hardened veteran (and top-tiers are actually fleeing only when everything completely gone south) and/or you have real faith in your commander (and that is also realised through perks). Obviously, lots of improvents can be made to make all of it more realistic and less confusing (like assigning companions as leutenants to certain division, top-tier troops improving morale of friendly low tiers etc etc), but as with some other mechanics, it's unlikely that anything huge will be implemented, because it's clear that higher-ups in TW want to avoid too complex mechanics in any of game aspects (which is is both good and bad - leaves more room for modding, but limits base game experience)
 
Unless you think chasing down units is a fun gameplay mechanic that is, which... okay...? I guess if it suits you man.
Yes, for me, it's better than fighting with/against unrealistic robots that fight without thinking about their future or themselves. Low wage you pay to them usually less important than their life.
To address your point about morale not impacting battle times: If 20% of your troops are fleeing from the battle and not fighting, your battle will not last nearly as long as if that 20% had remained in the fight until the combat was resolved.
Battles would last even longer if we boost every HP x10000 time. So what's your point?
Obviously, if they don't fight and stay it will take a little longer, but it will add up at most 10 seconds to your battle. And you will lose a fine realistic mechanic along the way.

I agree that 20-30 bandits even trying to figh vs 150 elites is complete nonsense though.
That usually shouldn't happen. Because the game does have "Oh ****, okay man I'm not gonna fight with you. Wanna take me to your army?" system in it for looters and such. If he is using Skip Bandits Dialog or something similar, it's very likely that he never saw this.
 
In an earlier version, didn't the retreating soldiers sometimes turn and fight back if you were chasing them? Where did that mechanic disappear? And why?
Not in vanilla and not in Warband either. That was a mod.
I've heard people say that in warband but I don't know if it actually happens. I feel like I though a guy was turning to tack a swing at me, but I think their pathfinding changed when you get too close maybe.
 
Imagine playing without the "Fight to the death" mod. Morale is so broken in this game it's not worthwhile to even develop it further imo, 50 troops vs 50 troops and 35 troops abandon the fight what kind of nonsense is that. Highly recommend fight to the death as it makes battles last longer.

Just to test this: eight battles, four with, four without.

Fights w/o Fight to the End average 5:30
Fights w/ Fight to the End average 5:41

A whole eleven seconds.
 
Back
Top Bottom