Flaws in granting peerage

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Granting peerage to companions is a great addition that was added from Warband to Bannerlord, but for fundamental reasons as to how the game works and treats individual characters, it has flaws in Bannerlord. Flaws I believe are mendable with a few solutions.
In Warband, the characters never aged and never died. They were all treated as a single person no matter if they had family members written in the lore. In this system, it was a very simple as to who you wanted to grant peerage for, either it was purely practical reasons like nobility or good skills, or sentimental reasons such as long service.
However, in Bannerlord, the practical reasons overtake any sentimentality. Characters age, and people who have served you from the start until your own kingdom might be sixty or older, thus at risk of dying shortly. This might risk the future of the clan as its already small amount of members will be reduced. Moreover, for women companions to be too old as they're granted their own clan, they would no longer be reproductive - reducing the new clan's ability to grow in numbers. Another thing with new clans is a problem also present with rebel clans: bleed-out of women from the original clans. Rebel clans also spawn with only men, so they need spouses from the original clans in the game. This on top of the fact that children always take to the culture of their mother, a clan's culture often becomes a a quilt of patchwork or gets dominated by the largest culture present, imperial culture. I wouldn't name it the biggest issue, for I believe a solution for this is separate from the issue at hand.
So, how would one patch this?
I would suggest that granting peerage to companions would, rather than giving a static tier 2 clan with two additional non-family members as a bonus, count points based on factors that happen during service to the player's clan. Bonus points could be awarded for levels gained during service, years served, and specialization in skills. Levels gained is quite self explanatory - level up and you gain a point; it will reward letting a companion do things - any things from trading to fighting. Years served is an automatic point system, even if you forget a companion in a town for a decade, they will still gain a few points by simply having a steady wage. Specialization in skills would reward players who can develop a companion in a non-cheesed way. If simple skill points would give clan points, an easy solution would be to have a companion train a little bit of everything. Specialization points would be awarded by having a companion excell at one or few skills. It would make companions who are great at fighting as worthy as it would a great charmer. Based on this developmental system, it would no longer be a wise choice to pick up the youngest possible companion of needed culture in the closest tavern and instantly grant them the rank of nobility. It would rather be effective to take companions early on, nurture them and give them lands after years of fruitful service.
Any clan points awarded to a companion as they become a noble would then be converted into clan members and their spawning skills. Based on their age and backstory - for example, The Black of Vlandia says her parents are dead but never mentions the existence or confirms non-existence of siblings or half-siblings - they would gain a family instantly upon being granted a clan. This would fix many of the aforementioned problems, such as the new clan not marrying anyone for they could spawn with a spouse, siblings, parents, children, or son- or daughter-in-laws. These clan members not originally the companion would gain skills much like the children of AI do, some specialize in steward, trade, and other similar traits while others become fighters, and a few are walking gods. All based on the points earned during companion phase. It would also tie in the sentimental value some companions might have to the player. I know many players like to min-max and care little for lore, continuity or storytelling, but I personally like to see a person who's fought for me for decades have a fief, then watch their children and grandchildren take charge of the lands their forefathers were granted by me.

What are your thoughts on granting peerage? Is the current system fine or does it need a little honing? Do my ideas sound reasonable, is there something I missed or did not thing through?
 
I think something has gone horribly awry if it takes you 40 years to start a Kingdom and reach the point of granting peerage. I think much more reasonably 35-40 years old (15-20 in-game years) is probably the higher upper limit for even the slowest player to start their own Kingdom.

As for Cultures. I'd like to see a 33/33/33 chance for taking 1 of the Parents Cultures, or having a combination of both. (Capping at 2 cultures for when the children eventually grow up and marry other potentially multi cultured children. Also on the topic of Children. I wish they weren't just a clone of both parents main features. Give them a chance to draw heavier from one of the parents and maybe even give them a little randomness slider bump just so the kid has some unique features. Children are vastly underdeveloped and don't really get a good chance to shine since the game is usually over before they actually do anything.

Though back to Companions and granting them Lordship. I have a feeling that Companion Clans can't actually rank up. In my most recent Campaign I've had 2 companions be given Lordship and for about 1-2 years I've taken them around in an army and been cruising through enemy territory and defending my recently gotten gains. They must have accumulated well over 500 Renown from all the Towns we've sieged and massive armies we've crushed yet they're both still Clan Rank 2. I don't know if they get Clan Rank 2 but start at 0 Renown, or they just don't gain renown or what but it makes having Companions in a Lordship Role pretty irrelevant when I can just go pay a Clan to come join me instead. Companion Clans need actual progression to be worthwhile and maybe a little variance of their own with their clan members so they don't all feel the exact same.

I like the idea of a perpetual tracker on companions for purposes of giving them lordship. Saying 10% of the money you paid them in wages (Simplified to their current wage x how many days they've been your companion) would be a good way to start their economy. So that Scout you've had since the beginning of the game who you pay 40 denars a day and have had for 4000 days would start with about 40,000 Denars, same with Renown where longer standing companions might be able to start at Tier 3 while newer companions might only start at Tier 1/Tier 2.

And Finally, yeah companions need their backstories fleshed out more with real events that tie into the world. Even though many of them are just copy/paste template characters at this point. They still have these backstories that could easily be very quickly addressed in small ways to actually provide them some.... character. Maybe this Horsethief says he won't go to a certain village because they know him as a criminal. If you want to go a step further, maybe you could offer to donate horses to the village in his name which would provide a relations boost (Relations for Companions should matter) and a nice little closer for a companion side story. A lot of these could tie into their lordship status too where becoming a lord could allow them to settle these issues on their own or could directly result in who their clan members are.
 
Granting peerage to companions is a great addition that was added from Warband to Bannerlord, but for fundamental reasons as to how the game works and treats individual characters, it has flaws in Bannerlord. Flaws I believe are mendable with a few solutions.
In Warband, the characters never aged and never died. They were all treated as a single person no matter if they had family members written in the lore. In this system, it was a very simple as to who you wanted to grant peerage for, either it was purely practical reasons like nobility or good skills, or sentimental reasons such as long service.
However, in Bannerlord, the practical reasons overtake any sentimentality. Characters age, and people who have served you from the start until your own kingdom might be sixty or older, thus at risk of dying shortly. This might risk the future of the clan as its already small amount of members will be reduced. Moreover, for women companions to be too old as they're granted their own clan, they would no longer be reproductive - reducing the new clan's ability to grow in numbers. Another thing with new clans is a problem also present with rebel clans: bleed-out of women from the original clans. Rebel clans also spawn with only men, so they need spouses from the original clans in the game. This on top of the fact that children always take to the culture of their mother, a clan's culture often becomes a a quilt of patchwork or gets dominated by the largest culture present, imperial culture. I wouldn't name it the biggest issue, for I believe a solution for this is separate from the issue at hand.
So, how would one patch this?
I would suggest that granting peerage to companions would, rather than giving a static tier 2 clan with two additional non-family members as a bonus, count points based on factors that happen during service to the player's clan. Bonus points could be awarded for levels gained during service, years served, and specialization in skills. Levels gained is quite self explanatory - level up and you gain a point; it will reward letting a companion do things - any things from trading to fighting. Years served is an automatic point system, even if you forget a companion in a town for a decade, they will still gain a few points by simply having a steady wage. Specialization in skills would reward players who can develop a companion in a non-cheesed way. If simple skill points would give clan points, an easy solution would be to have a companion train a little bit of everything. Specialization points would be awarded by having a companion excell at one or few skills. It would make companions who are great at fighting as worthy as it would a great charmer. Based on this developmental system, it would no longer be a wise choice to pick up the youngest possible companion of needed culture in the closest tavern and instantly grant them the rank of nobility. It would rather be effective to take companions early on, nurture them and give them lands after years of fruitful service.
Any clan points awarded to a companion as they become a noble would then be converted into clan members and their spawning skills. Based on their age and backstory - for example, The Black of Vlandia says her parents are dead but never mentions the existence or confirms non-existence of siblings or half-siblings - they would gain a family instantly upon being granted a clan. This would fix many of the aforementioned problems, such as the new clan not marrying anyone for they could spawn with a spouse, siblings, parents, children, or son- or daughter-in-laws. These clan members not originally the companion would gain skills much like the children of AI do, some specialize in steward, trade, and other similar traits while others become fighters, and a few are walking gods. All based on the points earned during companion phase. It would also tie in the sentimental value some companions might have to the player. I know many players like to min-max and care little for lore, continuity or storytelling, but I personally like to see a person who's fought for me for decades have a fief, then watch their children and grandchildren take charge of the lands their forefathers were granted by me.

What are your thoughts on granting peerage? Is the current system fine or does it need a little honing? Do my ideas sound reasonable, is there something I missed or did not thing through?
+1
 
None of this will happen, because Bannerlord is not a politics of peerage or nobility simulator, or a governance simulator. Like every other aspect of the game, it includes just enough of the politics of peerage to be plausible, and nothing more.

There are better political simulators out there... there are better combat simulators out there... there are better medieval world simulators out there... but Bannerlord offers a broad range of features you wont find in most of those other games from each of those specialist areas in a unique way. But it is not here to be a specialist "insert feature here" simulator.

With that in mind, I think the suggestions here add more complication than is desired to the game. If you want to boost your companion clans along, and you're 40 years into the game, you probably have a few children or grandchildren sitting about with nothing to do. You can relatively easily double their clan size, and thus double their ability to earn influence and gold, and for role playing, you're also tying their clan to your family just like real world medieval nobility.
 
I think something has gone horribly awry if it takes you 40 years to start a Kingdom and reach the point of granting peerage. I think much more reasonably 35-40 years old (15-20 in-game years) is probably the higher upper limit for even the slowest player to start their own Kingdom.

As for Cultures. I'd like to see a 33/33/33 chance for taking 1 of the Parents Cultures, or having a combination of both. (Capping at 2 cultures for when the children eventually grow up and marry other potentially multi cultured children. Also on the topic of Children. I wish they weren't just a clone of both parents main features. Give them a chance to draw heavier from one of the parents and maybe even give them a little randomness slider bump just so the kid has some unique features. Children are vastly underdeveloped and don't really get a good chance to shine since the game is usually over before they actually do anything.

Though back to Companions and granting them Lordship. I have a feeling that Companion Clans can't actually rank up. In my most recent Campaign I've had 2 companions be given Lordship and for about 1-2 years I've taken them around in an army and been cruising through enemy territory and defending my recently gotten gains. They must have accumulated well over 500 Renown from all the Towns we've sieged and massive armies we've crushed yet they're both still Clan Rank 2. I don't know if they get Clan Rank 2 but start at 0 Renown, or they just don't gain renown or what but it makes having Companions in a Lordship Role pretty irrelevant when I can just go pay a Clan to come join me instead. Companion Clans need actual progression to be worthwhile and maybe a little variance of their own with their clan members so they don't all feel the exact same.

I like the idea of a perpetual tracker on companions for purposes of giving them lordship. Saying 10% of the money you paid them in wages (Simplified to their current wage x how many days they've been your companion) would be a good way to start their economy. So that Scout you've had since the beginning of the game who you pay 40 denars a day and have had for 4000 days would start with about 40,000 Denars, same with Renown where longer standing companions might be able to start at Tier 3 while newer companions might only start at Tier 1/Tier 2.

And Finally, yeah companions need their backstories fleshed out more with real events that tie into the world. Even though many of them are just copy/paste template characters at this point. They still have these backstories that could easily be very quickly addressed in small ways to actually provide them some.... character. Maybe this Horsethief says he won't go to a certain village because they know him as a criminal. If you want to go a step further, maybe you could offer to donate horses to the village in his name which would provide a relations boost (Relations for Companions should matter) and a nice little closer for a companion side story. A lot of these could tie into their lordship status too where becoming a lord could allow them to settle these issues on their own or could directly result in who their clan members are.
I've about 900 hours in the game, and at around 300, I grew tired of playing the game "as good as possible" and just started roleplaying more. Taking 40 years to start a kingdom is slow, I admit that, but I find it way more immersive that things in the world take time. It is the same reason why I haven't taken Ira as a wife in the last 600 hours. I find it extremely confusing and unreasonable that a nobody could take arguable the most important bachelorette in the world for about 2k denars. That being said - it is unrelated but I'll write it down anyway - it's also dumb how
Ira is the one who changes clan in an AI marriage instead of the husband in that particular case, and maybe a few others as well.

I don't think the children being clones of their parents is being brought up by the community as much mostly because immersion and roleplaying in Bannerlord is very redundant, so most players end up minmaxing, and thus most games "end" in twenty years or less. Out of sight, out of mind, or something like that. The fact that TW hasn't said a word about it either is kind of worrying, but there's still time for it to be changed. Given how little about the future is being communicated, one can only hope right? At least there's always mods...

As stated before, I roleplay a lot and thus my games end up being a hundred or so years long, so I see many different aspects of the games than others - or so I trust in my own differing opinions based on some things. I can certainly tell you that companion clans do level up, I just think it takes them a long time since they only have one party at clan tier 2. The same as all other AI clans, their leveling up needs a rework. I do have ideas, but I'd rather start a new thread on that, if people are willing to discuss ideas. Not that ideas on the forums often lead anywhere. Perhaps modders might pick up something, but I'm blind and fingerless when it comes to coding.

Companions definitely do need more to them. I can't say for the community what "more" would be, but the only flaw in what you said is that one refusing to a certain village would be more obstructive that fun. Something akin to what Warband had, where they would talk about something that happened there would be more like it. You can just dismiss them if you don't care, or read what they have to say if you do. Giving a choice is the key in my opinion. Widen the scope of what players can and cannot do.
None of this will happen, because Bannerlord is not a politics of peerage or nobility simulator, or a governance simulator. Like every other aspect of the game, it includes just enough of the politics of peerage to be plausible, and nothing more.

There are better political simulators out there... there are better combat simulators out there... there are better medieval world simulators out there... but Bannerlord offers a broad range of features you wont find in most of those other games from each of those specialist areas in a unique way. But it is not here to be a specialist "insert feature here" simulator.

With that in mind, I think the suggestions here add more complication than is desired to the game. If you want to boost your companion clans along, and you're 40 years into the game, you probably have a few children or grandchildren sitting about with nothing to do. You can relatively easily double their clan size, and thus double their ability to earn influence and gold, and for role playing, you're also tying their clan to your family just like real world medieval nobility.
I understand that Bannerlord is and always will be a battle simulator, especially in the eyes of TW who are, in the end, at the helm of the direction the official game will go. That being said, I am for the most part hoping that a battle simulator will have enough of a backstage to make the battles being simulated matter.

Think of Arma III, for example. It has magnificent battles and tactics. But ultimately none of it matters because after you win or lose, you go back to the menu and start a new one from the beginning. It is like the custom battles of Bannerlord. Without any weight to them, the battles - as flashy and large as they are - do not ultimately matter. It's like when people ask for assassinations and political plots in Bannerlord. They aren't there because given the state of the game, it doesn't matter who is at the head of a nation or a clan. In the end, all the vassals at this point could just be general #1, general #2, general #3, and so on. They matter naught.

Given what I just stated, what I'm personally hoping for Bannerlord is that the backstage is given enough attention for roleplayers to give a damn about what's going on in the backstage, but ultimately not so much that minmaxers don't need to think about it if they do not want to. I personally think my idea for peerage, for example, would work this way. If you don't care, you can just train a person and make a clan without caring who their clan consists of. But if you do, you can see them and their family grow. I would always rather give both ways to play a game a chance rather than forcing one or the other group to play in a certain way.

I personally don't believe that it would be too complicated. Just like many features in games like Rimworld, things don't need to be given to the players as ultimate statistical analyses. Simply stating that "Nurturing companions before granting them fiefs will make their clans stronger" gives just enough information. Of course, you can delve deep into it and figure out how to cheese the heck out of it, like killboxes in the aforementioned game.
 
i think a lot of things will still be reworked in the game. on one hand you have players who say bannerlord devs wont improve on these things because it has already been "made", and on the other hand there are players who shout at the game for still being officially unreleased, both contradicting each other. the devs have stated since the beginning that they will continue to develop the game for as long as they see fit. features can change entirely, they have been redone completely before

it looks to me like xxx's clan spawning from uprisings combined with companion clans are still very much work in progress. they dont function very well in the game overall, most of them die out easily because they never marry. it overall looks like the ai takes their sweet time handing out eligible children, some will have up to 50 in their clan, with 90% of the adults still remaining unmarried. a lot of them just clutters the towns and castles and are not used for anything, neither can they, because its limited how many war parties can be sent out at once. so there is clearly a lot of work in progress going on around how clans function still, which is fine. that is what the early access is for. we are all still play testers of an unfinished game, only we also paid for it. we have all the reason to ask for new features or improvement of existing ones, they also want us to

i think it would make sense for companions you put in power who are +30 for women and +35 for men to already have children of their own, that they will take along into their new clan. after all, you dont know what they go about doing while they wait in towns after having escaped
 
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