Fix Campaign Map AI

Do you think Campaign Map AI needs to be fixed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3

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bbaydogdu

Sergeant
Armies now do not run away from stronger armies like they used to do. For example an army of 500 besiges a castle or town. Then a much larger enemy army approaches them to defend their settlement. Guess what? They don't lift the siege and run away. They just wait to die. Also there is almost no field battle anymore between armies. If you join an army all you do is besieging same two settlements over and over again. Another bullsh*t from AI is parties don't help each other as they used to in early access. Now they just sit there and watch their fellow lords get butchered by enemy. God, this is literally the worst AI I've seen in a game. TW, fix your game!!!!!!
 
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geala

Squire
The AI probably often does not see the enemy army early enough to escape, so it does not try. It has the disorganised status after lifting the siege and is very slow. It would be great if there were a messenger system in the game to warn and manipulate lords from your own faction, also there should be a skillbased ability of lords to reconnoiter far away (and the ability to utilize small hunting parties to catch spy parties). Presumably too complicated for the BL AI ...

I cannot support the notion that there are no battles other than sieges. And sieges and battles developing from sieges were the norm in the high medieval period, pure field battles were very rare. Quite a lot in BL is random, sometimes (or, often ...) it seems the AI is totally braindead, but sometimes it also is ok and achieves goals I had not counted on. In my recent campaigns the AI parties helped each other quite often, more often than the player party did, hmm.

Take also into account that humans during many/all military conflicts during history quite often acted quite stupidly, on par with the worst deeds of the BL AI. I don't have the feeling that the AI was once great or better and has become worse. The AI is stupid on the same level about since Warband, in my opinion.
 

bbaydogdu

Sergeant
I do not expect them to add those features you mentioned. I suggest you to do the same cuz they literally give 0 f***s about what you think. All I want them to FIX their mess. This is neither a suggestion nor a feature request. This thing is broken and gotta be fixed. That's it.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
I'd prefer that the army besieging doesn't immediate run away from an opposing army just because they have a ># units without some further consequence (vs just the time lost setting up camp); maybe a heavy hit on cohesion? It what leads to that weird AI nonsense with field armies and them playing cat&mouse.
Army sizes should've been more vague for the enemy vs what we have now; makes scout skills like spotting/tracking/etc...more crucial in order to get a further breakdown of their size and composition. You can already see how many noble parties are in an army, that should be plenty as an indicator for estimation count; the fact I can see the specific number and also what type troops specifically (down to who's wounded) doesn't really make sense.
It would help with army decisions for engaging/disengaging (still not too clear what factors are at play besides big number good) to add further element of fog of war.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
Cat & mouse 10 times better than autistic suicidal AI.
Not when you see both armies going back and forth without engaging due to how the speed/chase calculations works. Before starving themselves and losing due to a map mechanic issue.
There needs to be some 'commitment' to the army decisions; if they besiege a town with only 500 vs 400 with the inherent program to starve them for days before attacking (so it's 500v200 or whatever 'safe' calculation is attackable for AI), they should commit. If the enemy builds an army in the meantime (that they shouldn't be aware of) and comes to attack/defend, that's their fault for not accounting for it. If they break camp, they should suffer a heavier penalty.

But yes, 2 kingdoms fighting over the same 2 towns/castles is stupid; there's not enough war objective/calculations in place to diversify their decision making (all to prevent snowballing). Late-game, it just devolves to doom-stacking the same town and losing their troops to re-upping the garrison (imo, needs more casualties vs wounded).
 

bbaydogdu

Sergeant
Like I said before, I don't expect TW to add new features. They should fix the current situation with whatever they got. If we talk about what is the most logical approach, it's 2 armies face eachother in the field and the victors go siege the whatever settlement they want. But it's gonna cause total annihilations in short time and massive snow balling. Because in reality nothing is that simple. There are many other external factors such as alliances, treaties etc. As far as we know non of these will be implemented in the game. So they gotta fix this mess with a better balanced Army/Party AI that actually cares about their lives and settlements.
 

thomas13

Regular
The simplest way to fix it would be to give AI lords/nobles who lead parties and armies increased scouting skill. That is the only way to increase their vision and help them maneuver the campaign map better.
 

bbaydogdu

Sergeant
The simplest way to fix it would be to give AI lords/nobles who lead parties and armies increased scouting skill. That is the only way to increase their vision and help them maneuver the campaign map better.
Does scouting skill really make a difference? If it's all because they have low scouting I can easily fix it myself. I believe it has nothing to do with scouting. AI is just terrible that's it.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
Like I said before, I don't expect TW to add new features. They should fix the current situation with whatever they got. If we talk about what is the most logical approach, it's 2 armies face eachother in the field and the victors go siege the whatever settlement they want. But it's gonna cause total annihilations in short time and massive snow balling. Because in reality nothing is that simple. There are many other external factors such as alliances, treaties etc. As far as we know non of these will be implemented in the game. So they gotta fix this mess with a better balanced Army/Party AI that actually cares about their lives and settlements.
IMO, simple fix is to up the death casualties of massive army v army battles - too many of them only lose a few (ie 1000v1000; victor loses only ~150 troops, rest are wounded). They should make it so even if those armies engage on the field, at least the defeated kingdom can cause actual attrition to the opposition enough to need them to regroup again; and also add that 'sacrifice' decision making (traits?) as a factor to save a town from being besieged entirely.

To have AI 'care' more about their lives and settlements, we would have a lot less engagements than we do currently. But it's also the only thing this game has going for it. Unless they add more things like alliances/war objectives/etc...into all the AI decisions, we're stuck with what just feels like a basic daily check of 'X castle is weak, target it' (which is why we get the constant swapping of 2 fiefs) or 'instant notification X town is being attacked across the map, let's abandon our objective to defend' (should be some messenger delay)
Worse yet, if an army does decided to defend a nearby town, but a tiny party is in proximity, they do the stupid thing of chasing them (which they can't catch up) and not even do the defense objective!
 

bbaydogdu

Sergeant
IMO, simple fix is to up the death casualties of massive army v army battles - too many of them only lose a few (ie 1000v1000; victor loses only ~150 troops, rest are wounded). They should make it so even if those armies engage on the field, at least the defeated kingdom can cause actual attrition to the opposition enough to need them to regroup again; and also add that 'sacrifice' decision making (traits?) as a factor to save a town from being besieged entirely.
Exactly!!! If you would go for a picnic with 1000 men in medieval times 150 guy would already die on road. And those men died in the battle are easily being replaced by recruited prisoners.
 
I made a mod that allowed lords to recruit scouts in their parties and i'm not sure it changes much in this domain. Just my 2 cents in the subject.

Lords often have already really high stats with how they are generated, like 200 in everything, and adding a scout with 250 won't change much in this.
I guess the issue is more about the models and game design, like someone said, the cat & mouth issue is the absolute cancer, if you find it fun to have 20 smalls armies of 30 people raiding your villages and able to run away at supersonic speed as soon as you approach to come back the exact second you leave, then the game is perfect right?

The speed calculation is broken, the spotting calculation is broken too and both works together, if you change one without changing the second you will simply make things even worst.
 

swally0ne

Veteran
Armies now do not run away from stronger armies like they used to do. For example an army of 500 besiges a castle or town. Then a much larger enemy army approaches them to defend their settlement. Guess what? They don't lift the siege and run away. They just wait to die. Also there is almost no field battle anymore between armies. If you join an army all you do is besieging same two settlements over and over again. Another bullsh*t from AI is parties don't help each other as they used to in early access. Now they just sit there and watch their fellow lords get butchered by enemy. God, this is literally the worst AI I've seen in a game. TW, fix your game!!!!!!

they go from siege to siege in mid/late game because nobody places people into the garrisson, as this only happens after the voting is done (the armies leave the taken places before that)
vice versa, your own armies dont attack obvious winning battles.

m_and_b_seriously_wrong.png


this army was not attacking the besiegers and let the takeover happen.

imo the ai was in a way better condition couple of patches ago. now there is war everywhere. when you proclaim a kingdom or join as a vasall you got war declarations from factions which had nothing to do with you. i settled in sturgia and got war nearly instant war decs from western empire, battanians, vlandians, southern empire. tribute goes brrrt.

on top of that, we have to deal with things mentioned above.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
Exactly!!! If you would go for a picnic with 1000 men in medieval times 150 guy would already die on road. And those men died in the battle are easily being replaced by recruited prisoners.
Not sure how they could add, but something simple like wounded troops have a daily tick% chance (or quicker ticker since they recover quite quickly within a day or two anyways) to die from wounds or something. Maybe even have it apply to the player/companions so that 2% chance also has a risk for after a battle until you're back to 20% or 40% HP or whatever.
Then maybe, some of the surgeon/healer perk choices might be more substantial, ie either A. less death chance in battle for troops or B. less death chance from wounded
they go from siege to siege in mid/late game because nobody places people into the garrisson, as this only happens after the voting is done (the armies leave the taken places before that)
vice versa, your own armies dont attack obvious winning battles.

this army was not attacking the besiegers and let the takeover happen.
There's no 'sacrifice/risk' decision, they don't attack because whatever background calculation stops them from helping; it's a very basic binary yes/no. So that even a +/-10 troops to their 600unit army might now finally make the decision to engage.

You also see lords that retreat to castles from an attacking/besieging army, only then to change their mind and go away because of the instant outcome calculation, then that lord exits castle because it's 'safe', only for that army now to reattempt the attack because of their omniscience, lord retreats, they cancel attack again, rinse&repeat.
 
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