Vachir
Recruit
Hello! I've been playing M&B for a little while now, leveling up my character, trying different things, and making a post or two here on the forums. I since I haven't gotten into things too far yet, I thought now would be a good time to sum up my first impression of the game.
First of all wow. This game is the most fun I've had in a long time. I've been playing through the latest AAA stuff in my spare time, but while super expensive high profile games like Quake 4 are fun, this blows away anything I've played since RTW. That's where I'd draw my first comparison for M&B, it's like being able to jump into a Total War game, which is something I think everybody who has followed that series has always wanted to do.
What made this game so great right from the start was combat. The training sessions were a good introduction, but the arena is when I knew I was hooked. There's so much to say about this combat system. Directing swings is very good, directional weapon blocking is very good, archery is exceptionally well handled, and of course, mounted combat just amazing. There are a lot of posts about how the combat system could be made better, and I definitely agree with a lot of them, but I have to give credit to how good it is already. Combat in M&B is fantastic fun.
Getting outside the city for the first time, I was somewhat surprised how big the world was. Granted it's become a lot smaller since then as I've learned how to play, but I was very impressed by how well things are set up. I also absolutely love the idea that there's stuff going on out and about even without me getting involved. How many games have we all played where you are the center of attention, and nothing at all can happen or get done without you being right in the middle of it? I was quite impressed to see one group of NPCs roaming by, with another group in hot pursuit, eventually catching up and starting a battle, without me even being involved. The fact that this was going on all the time all over the world quickly became clear, and I found the concept very involving (again much like a Total War campaign).
Dragging my little army around cleaning up river pirates was great fun to start with, even better once I figured out tracking and could actually hunt them down rather than wandering aimlessly. I was very happy to see that not only did my troops follow basic commands, but they also gained experience and were upgradable after a fight or two. Eventually I found myself tied up in what seems to be a war between the two factions in the game, which has been great fun with patrols and war parties running around, being much more of a challenge than pirates and bandits.
At this point I'm up to about level 25. I've tried out mass knights, infantry, missile, and a good mix of all three. My two heroes are lagging behind in level quite a bit, but make for a big help in getting more skills like tracking without using my own character points. I've had a lot of fun running different quests and just going out to fight enemies in all the different terrain and army balance settings.
I guess my question now is, where do things go from here? Obviously M&B is a work in progress, and while it's already tons of fun beyond anything I expected when I first got started, a lot of pieces seem incomplete or missing entirely, and I wonder what things are going to look like when the game actually reaches 'done' status.
So here are a few questions/suggestions about the way things are right now in M&B.
Economics:
One of the early things I noticed was huge price jumps between the normal version of something, and some of the prefixed items with slightly better stats. Is this an area that is still being worked on?
Quests:
Another issue is quest disparity, some quests give you next to nothing, while others are quite rewarding. For example, capturing a noble seems to pay pretty well, while raising and giving up a group of knights is less than worth it, except to free up the next quest.
Some quests are much easier than others too, from the 'deliver this note' to 'supply 10 [insert rare impossible to find item]'. I have a few in my quest log that I never intend to finish, I just go on to the next town until I get a doable quest, or at least one that I can fail and clear out. Is there not a way to give up on a quest you know there's no way you're ever going to finish? It would be nice to have a few to choose from, or at least a way to give up and try a different one.
War:
While at first it seemed like things were going to get really interesting on the faction vs. faction side of things, further gameplay and exploration shows that this really isn't much of a war, at least not yet. It doesn't seem there is really any hope of winning the war as towns are impossible to attack, and enemies simply respawn and come back again and again. This game seems like it could get really interesting if the factions start actually going to war and attacking each other for control of the map.
Recruitment:
One of my primary problems with the game at this point is keeping enough troops to fight with. Occasionally I get stomped on the battlefield, and left with only my two heroes and myself, I'm forced to basically start over from scratch. It doesn't matter if I had 20 knights before, or if I have 10k gold in the bank, I'm still stuck hauling around a bunch of peasants in the hope that some of them will survive a skirmish or two and advance to the higher ranks. It takes a very long time for me to accomplish this, so I wonder if I am doing something wrong, or if the recruiting system is just not quite finished yet. If anything I'd just like to see higher tier troops available for recruitment as you advance in level rather than peasants who have to survive all the way up to become knights. Being able to 'store' units for later wouldn't hurt either.
Combat:
Combat in this game is great, really great, but it has a lot of potential to keep getting better. For one thing, it seems like foot combat involves mostly waking around. Infantry never charge or run away, it's always walking, and for that matter never stepping into a swing or thrust, or away into a block or parry. The lack of the ability to run at all, and a complete lack of footwork are sorely missing in this combat system.
The blocks are good for what they are, but could use more depth as well. Weapons and even shields seem useless for static defense (while not holding the 'block' button), and blocks seem to completely ignore the issue of targeting (no difference between blocking an attack to the body or legs). One mouse click to block any attack without having to visually recognize it and provoke the appropriate response seems a bit oversimplified to me. Attacks are much better, going along with character movement direction, but again could use better targeting and footwork. The fact that every attack that hits, disrupts counter-attacks is a bit disappointing as well.
It seems almost as if this game would be better suited to being played with two hands on the keyboard, one for movement and quick snap-to views, and the other for offensive and defensive action taken in the appropriate direction (archery and possibly lance usage being exceptions).
At the tactical level (as mentioned many times here it seems), the comparison to Total War really breaks down. Basic commands are enough to get by when you have a whole group of one unit type, but even so it's really hard to make your NPCs do what you want them to, and virtually impossible when working with mixed units. Again keeping with the comparison, I'd love to see strategic commands ala RTW from a battlefield view (think Sacrifice or Brothers in Arms). Use of formations and maneuvers for effective strategy is at the top of my wishlist for M&B.
As another random thought to throw in, why do I help friendly NPCs by joining them in battle all the time, and yet they never feel motivated to jump in and help me when patrolling by a battle I could use a hand with?
Balance:
Here is an obvious point, to me at least. A knight is worth a lot more on the battlefield than a peasant. Nobody can even call that into question, however, one knight, horse and all, takes up only 1 slot in your group, the same as a peasant or any other unit in the game. Virtually every other similar game assigns a value to each unit, rather than simply counting up how many total units there are. Does it really make sense that my party size be limited to 20, whether that's 20 near useless peasants, or 20 fully upgraded knights in plate armour?
Once we actually get to fight, ultimately I think we'd all like to see our entire force go to battle, but due to technical limitations and to promote better gameplay, wouldn't it make more sense to fight a weighted force against force by unit strength rather than numbers alone? For example, if I am outnumbered 60:40 should I really be able to simply field 18 knights vs. 22 bandits and win easily? A fair fight for these odds would be 18 similar value units, so shouldn't higher value units be reduced in number to make the actual conflict reasonably 'fair'? I would much rather fight a challenging battle no matter what the quality of the enemy force against me is, leaving the final outcome to number of reinforcements and tactical skill. This would give a lot more value to lower quality units, and remove knights as the single defining unit in the game the way they are now.
Graphics:
You may not have noticed, but M&B is ugly, really ugly. I say you may not have noticed, because once you start playing it's so much fun that the graphic quality doesn't matter anymore. I'm just wondering here if the graphics are placeholder or if the focus is just on making a really good game with bare bones graphics just to get by, which is what I prefer anyway.
Conclusion:
Anyway that's about it for now, there are a lot of little things I've noticed like crashing into nearly invisible fading away horses, but I'll leave that stuff for little suggestion threads. I'm still having a lot of fun, and can't wait to see what's new as more updates are released.
First of all wow. This game is the most fun I've had in a long time. I've been playing through the latest AAA stuff in my spare time, but while super expensive high profile games like Quake 4 are fun, this blows away anything I've played since RTW. That's where I'd draw my first comparison for M&B, it's like being able to jump into a Total War game, which is something I think everybody who has followed that series has always wanted to do.
What made this game so great right from the start was combat. The training sessions were a good introduction, but the arena is when I knew I was hooked. There's so much to say about this combat system. Directing swings is very good, directional weapon blocking is very good, archery is exceptionally well handled, and of course, mounted combat just amazing. There are a lot of posts about how the combat system could be made better, and I definitely agree with a lot of them, but I have to give credit to how good it is already. Combat in M&B is fantastic fun.
Getting outside the city for the first time, I was somewhat surprised how big the world was. Granted it's become a lot smaller since then as I've learned how to play, but I was very impressed by how well things are set up. I also absolutely love the idea that there's stuff going on out and about even without me getting involved. How many games have we all played where you are the center of attention, and nothing at all can happen or get done without you being right in the middle of it? I was quite impressed to see one group of NPCs roaming by, with another group in hot pursuit, eventually catching up and starting a battle, without me even being involved. The fact that this was going on all the time all over the world quickly became clear, and I found the concept very involving (again much like a Total War campaign).
Dragging my little army around cleaning up river pirates was great fun to start with, even better once I figured out tracking and could actually hunt them down rather than wandering aimlessly. I was very happy to see that not only did my troops follow basic commands, but they also gained experience and were upgradable after a fight or two. Eventually I found myself tied up in what seems to be a war between the two factions in the game, which has been great fun with patrols and war parties running around, being much more of a challenge than pirates and bandits.
At this point I'm up to about level 25. I've tried out mass knights, infantry, missile, and a good mix of all three. My two heroes are lagging behind in level quite a bit, but make for a big help in getting more skills like tracking without using my own character points. I've had a lot of fun running different quests and just going out to fight enemies in all the different terrain and army balance settings.
I guess my question now is, where do things go from here? Obviously M&B is a work in progress, and while it's already tons of fun beyond anything I expected when I first got started, a lot of pieces seem incomplete or missing entirely, and I wonder what things are going to look like when the game actually reaches 'done' status.
So here are a few questions/suggestions about the way things are right now in M&B.
Economics:
One of the early things I noticed was huge price jumps between the normal version of something, and some of the prefixed items with slightly better stats. Is this an area that is still being worked on?
Quests:
Another issue is quest disparity, some quests give you next to nothing, while others are quite rewarding. For example, capturing a noble seems to pay pretty well, while raising and giving up a group of knights is less than worth it, except to free up the next quest.
Some quests are much easier than others too, from the 'deliver this note' to 'supply 10 [insert rare impossible to find item]'. I have a few in my quest log that I never intend to finish, I just go on to the next town until I get a doable quest, or at least one that I can fail and clear out. Is there not a way to give up on a quest you know there's no way you're ever going to finish? It would be nice to have a few to choose from, or at least a way to give up and try a different one.
War:
While at first it seemed like things were going to get really interesting on the faction vs. faction side of things, further gameplay and exploration shows that this really isn't much of a war, at least not yet. It doesn't seem there is really any hope of winning the war as towns are impossible to attack, and enemies simply respawn and come back again and again. This game seems like it could get really interesting if the factions start actually going to war and attacking each other for control of the map.
Recruitment:
One of my primary problems with the game at this point is keeping enough troops to fight with. Occasionally I get stomped on the battlefield, and left with only my two heroes and myself, I'm forced to basically start over from scratch. It doesn't matter if I had 20 knights before, or if I have 10k gold in the bank, I'm still stuck hauling around a bunch of peasants in the hope that some of them will survive a skirmish or two and advance to the higher ranks. It takes a very long time for me to accomplish this, so I wonder if I am doing something wrong, or if the recruiting system is just not quite finished yet. If anything I'd just like to see higher tier troops available for recruitment as you advance in level rather than peasants who have to survive all the way up to become knights. Being able to 'store' units for later wouldn't hurt either.
Combat:
Combat in this game is great, really great, but it has a lot of potential to keep getting better. For one thing, it seems like foot combat involves mostly waking around. Infantry never charge or run away, it's always walking, and for that matter never stepping into a swing or thrust, or away into a block or parry. The lack of the ability to run at all, and a complete lack of footwork are sorely missing in this combat system.
The blocks are good for what they are, but could use more depth as well. Weapons and even shields seem useless for static defense (while not holding the 'block' button), and blocks seem to completely ignore the issue of targeting (no difference between blocking an attack to the body or legs). One mouse click to block any attack without having to visually recognize it and provoke the appropriate response seems a bit oversimplified to me. Attacks are much better, going along with character movement direction, but again could use better targeting and footwork. The fact that every attack that hits, disrupts counter-attacks is a bit disappointing as well.
It seems almost as if this game would be better suited to being played with two hands on the keyboard, one for movement and quick snap-to views, and the other for offensive and defensive action taken in the appropriate direction (archery and possibly lance usage being exceptions).
At the tactical level (as mentioned many times here it seems), the comparison to Total War really breaks down. Basic commands are enough to get by when you have a whole group of one unit type, but even so it's really hard to make your NPCs do what you want them to, and virtually impossible when working with mixed units. Again keeping with the comparison, I'd love to see strategic commands ala RTW from a battlefield view (think Sacrifice or Brothers in Arms). Use of formations and maneuvers for effective strategy is at the top of my wishlist for M&B.
As another random thought to throw in, why do I help friendly NPCs by joining them in battle all the time, and yet they never feel motivated to jump in and help me when patrolling by a battle I could use a hand with?
Balance:
Here is an obvious point, to me at least. A knight is worth a lot more on the battlefield than a peasant. Nobody can even call that into question, however, one knight, horse and all, takes up only 1 slot in your group, the same as a peasant or any other unit in the game. Virtually every other similar game assigns a value to each unit, rather than simply counting up how many total units there are. Does it really make sense that my party size be limited to 20, whether that's 20 near useless peasants, or 20 fully upgraded knights in plate armour?
Once we actually get to fight, ultimately I think we'd all like to see our entire force go to battle, but due to technical limitations and to promote better gameplay, wouldn't it make more sense to fight a weighted force against force by unit strength rather than numbers alone? For example, if I am outnumbered 60:40 should I really be able to simply field 18 knights vs. 22 bandits and win easily? A fair fight for these odds would be 18 similar value units, so shouldn't higher value units be reduced in number to make the actual conflict reasonably 'fair'? I would much rather fight a challenging battle no matter what the quality of the enemy force against me is, leaving the final outcome to number of reinforcements and tactical skill. This would give a lot more value to lower quality units, and remove knights as the single defining unit in the game the way they are now.
Graphics:
You may not have noticed, but M&B is ugly, really ugly. I say you may not have noticed, because once you start playing it's so much fun that the graphic quality doesn't matter anymore. I'm just wondering here if the graphics are placeholder or if the focus is just on making a really good game with bare bones graphics just to get by, which is what I prefer anyway.
Conclusion:
Anyway that's about it for now, there are a lot of little things I've noticed like crashing into nearly invisible fading away horses, but I'll leave that stuff for little suggestion threads. I'm still having a lot of fun, and can't wait to see what's new as more updates are released.
