finally, the dutch admit they where wrong

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Temujin

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AMSTERDAM (THE NETHERLANDS), 04 August 2005 - Of all the anniversaries marking the end of World War II, one of the most difficult for the Netherlands is the ragged conclusion of the war in Indonesia, the former Dutch colony that declared itself a sovereign nation 60 years ago this month. For the first time, the Dutch government is sending a Cabinet-level official, Foreign Minister Bernard Bot, to Jakarta to join the Aug. 17 Independence Day celebrations - a deliberate yet grudging move meant to paper over a longstanding historical dispute.

The Dutch have maintained that the former Dutch East Indies remained under its colonial umbrella until 1949, when Holland yielded sovereignty following years of negotiations and "police actions" against what they called revolutionaries. Even now, the Cabinet decision last week to send Bot was couched in reservations, falling short of formally recognizing President Sukarno's 1945 independence declaration and refusing to fault Dutch forces.

"The government values Indonesian independence day as a historical fact, not a judgment or condemnation of the police actions," said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Judith Maas. The statement reflected what one expert called "an internal trauma" in coming to terms with the violent separation from Indonesia after 350 years of colonial rule.

Accepting 1945 as the date of independence "means the military conflict was an international conflict, and no longer an internal affair," said Henk Schulte Northolt, of the Royal Netherlands Institute of Southeast Asian and Caribbean Studies in Leiden.That could be read as admission that "we were wrong, in some ways, in this whole war," he said.

It's about time!

alltough that judith Maas is a ***** for saying they won't condem their "politionele acties"
 
uhm temu...

aren't you a bit obsessed with all this....
this isn't exactly the first time you made a post like this.

the dutch on the forum don't make posts about germany, spain, the french and the japanise all the time either.

and the war with spain lasted for 80 years and involved a lot of genocide.
they even still celebrate the assasination on willem van oranje there.

the american's don't post about the war whit the english

etc etc
 
pzler said:
uhm temu...

aren't you a bit obsessed with all this....
this isn't exactly the first time you made a post like this.

the dutch on the forum don't make posts about germany, spain, the french and the japanise all the time either.

and the war with spain lasted for 80 years and involved a lot of genocide.
they even still celebrate the assasination on willem van oranje there.

the american's don't post about the war whit the english

etc etc

The reason can be simple - there are lots of them who witnessed this pzler. Their memories are still alive. So their hatred and fear. And additionally they live in Holland, alien country with alien culture. They don't feel comfortable (but they pretend they are)
Time must pass...
I'm not finding excuses, it would be great if everyone could forgive in one second. But... people are people you know...
Regards
 
yes but i have loads of friends from indonesia and they aren't so upset about all of this.
 
pzler said:
yes but i have loads of friends from indonesia and they aren't so upset about all of this.

People are people pzler.
One can forget pretty easily
Another keeps hatred till death.
Young peoples have better chance to leave parents hatreds. But sometimes they are rised in such way that they become copies in certain areas. I've witnessed this many times. We in Poland have similar problem between us and Ukrainians. Generally young peoples are closer, but old still believe in bad stereotypes and replenish hatred and fear. And some youngsters do believe it (on both sides :sad: ).
But... I think Temu has good will in him. I've noticed...
Well, enough said.
Everything will be ok pzler, you'll see :smile:
EDIT: But I think he still remebers your "POLITIONELE ACTION" (sorry for spelling) post...
 
SO......Am i allowed to post the war about japanese and china? i have to admit that the japanese are a bunch of f*cktards, they tried to change the history in the texture book, about the invasion of china, they said it was our failure in economy or something, but i don't think they can come here and slaughter us to make our economy better :roll:
 
my cousins call august the holy month because of 17the August!

It's different for everyone, I think it's about time they said sorry. I know enough Indo's who hate jews because the Dutch gouverment keeps compensating them for what their grandparents wen through in WWII but at the same time that gouverment did nothing for the Maluku or the ex Knil members.

this is a good first step towards recognition.
 
What if a Nerd comes up to you and ask why did the Republic of Roma Had a 15 year civil war? I pictured you speachless, and quickly running away :lol:
 
Have you listened Scorpion's "Wind of Change"?


Here is the lyric:

Wind Of Change

I folow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change
An August summer night
Soldiers passing by
Listening to the wind of change


The world is closing in
Did you ever think
That we could be so close, like brothers
The future's in the air
I can feel it everywhere
Blowing with the wind of change


Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change


Walking down the street
Distant memories
Are buried in the past forever
I folow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change


Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change


The wind of change
Blows straight into the face of time
Like a stormwind that will ring the freedom bell
For peace of mind
Let your balalaika sing
What my guitar wants to say


Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change
 
Henderson said:
SO......Am i allowed to post the war about japanese and china? i have to admit that the japanese are a bunch of f*cktards, they tried to change the history in the texture book, about the invasion of china, they said it was our failure in economy or something, but i don't think they can come here and slaughter us to make our economy better :roll:

Hmm, hi Henderson. I don't know you, and I don't know nothing of that that you are mentioning, but I think you could keep some ofensive words without writing them.

Almost all the countries have been in war with their neighbores any time in the History, and alot of the countries have some politics that harm another countries, without a valid reason.

Well, without desire of offending you, or to take off your freedom of speech, I say goodbye.

Your friend and partner of you in the world, and brother of you in human kind...

Flaming Eyes.
 
No offense, but it seem that japan is that only country that hasn't officially apologized, i think that country is blind because they can't even notice the mass production of nueclear weapon transporting from Russia and made in factories :roll:
 
HAHA! I like the Scorpions but they are really crazy. I remember that album where on the the cover Klaus Meine was doing a headstand and they didn't look like they were OK, or even sane. I think they were very sincere when they sang that song about the winds of change after the fall of the Soviet Union and the Berlin wall but come on, they are nuts.
 
Henderson said:
No offense, but it seem that japan is that only country that hasn't officially apologized, i think that country is blind because they can't even notice the mass production of nueclear weapon transporting from Russia and made in factories :roll:

Funny, cause I've heard that they otherwise admitted their own faults during WW2. But then again, maybe I listen.
 
OOps I'm sorry? is that supposed to mean something? Especially when the men behind these things are dead or 90 years old? Life is a ***** and then you die.
 
Thorn said:
Now all we want is official appologies from the Japanese :razz:

Edit: Yeah I'm Dutch

don't forget the spanish!!!! they turned the inquisition on us!!!
80 long years of war, sigh
 
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