Final version improvement checklist.

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Grandmaster Knight
This is a thread to list all the little nagging oversights that could reasonably be fixed before the final release.  This is not the place to suggest dual-wielding or massive engine overhauls, but minor tweaks and improvements that may have slipped Armagan's notice.

I'll try to keep the first post updated with further additions.  I'll also note who made the suggestions, so that Armagan can put you in the credits if you aren't there already.

Archery timing. (Eogan)
The timing for firing a bow is way off.  Currently, the animation takes half a second to nock the next arrow, and then three seconds to draw the bow and loose it.  This should be reversed.  Preferably, the bow should use the same two-step system as the crossbow and once an arrow is nocked it should take almost no time to draw and release.

Projectiles while running
The penalty for throwing, archery, and crossbows while running is ridiculously overstated.  For reference, see the game of "Baseball".  In reality, it would be easier to compensate for the movement of your own body than it would be to compensate for being on a moving horse.  I suggest that the penalty be a doubling of the reticule size, perhaps +50% for throwing.  Bad aim becomes wild, but good aim is only slightly less accurate.

Back-slung shields. (Eogan)
Still way too high.  the top of the shield should be about shoulder height, not higher than the person's head.  This is especially noticable with the lowered 3rd-person camera.  They block an annoyingly large portion of the screen.

Weapon animations.
It's been said plenty of times before, but the swings in-game are ridiculous.  Every shot swings from the shoulder, when they should be a lot more economical and compact.  Poles can use a counter-levered attack.  Two-handers should combine a counter-lever motion with a short swing.  One-handed blows should be closer to a punch than a tennis swing:  it's more powerful, more accurate, and much faster.

City menus. (Eogan)
It would be nice if city/village/castle menus could be made optional.  I find they really wreck the immersion, and would rather automatically ride into the city.  Options could be:
  • Full Menu:  current setup.
  • Ride-In:  default to the city, but menus available through tab key.
  • Full Immersion:  no city menus available, you'll have to walk there.
With the added modifier:
  • No Horse:  whenever you would spawn in the city on your horse, a message says, "You arrive in [town] and hitch your horse at the local stables."  You then spawn at the unmounted city centre spawn point.

Inventory Management
Especially now that there's only one party inventory, this should be a party skill.

NPC inventories should be available during the looting screen.  Just because I'm full-up with spice and velvet, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to have Marnid grab that hauberk and spear.

Carts & Wagons (Kelpo)
This is my most ambitious suggestion here (and perhaps over the line for this thread), but I still think that if you're going to make the player watch over the mundanities of collecting & selling loot, babysitting upset NPC's, and manually controlling the party's food supply, that the "baggage train" shouldn't be abstracted.  A player should get:
  • 1 inventory slot for every infantry member of their party (every footman has a back-pack).  Putting a horse in one of these slots makes that infantry act as a mounted unit for travel.
  • 1 horse slot below the party inventory.  When you put a horse in the open horse slot, it creates a cart/wagon slot beside the horse, the inventory slots for the horse below it, and a new empty horse slot below that.
  • When you put a multiple-horse-drawn cart in the cart slot, it should create slots equal to the maximum number of horses that can be hitched to it.
Reference image

Party Browser (Red River)
I'm tired of clickin' when I need to examine 10+ members in my party and that includes non companion ones... right now the way it works I can examine one member of my party at a time and then I'm kicked back on the map.  I suggest there's to be added back/forward or next/previous party member on the main examine screen after ya click Talk.

Roads (AvaRice)
Roads that serve a purpose by providing a speed boost on the world map, and AI that reacts appropriately to utilize them (e.g. caravan routes, bandits patrolling near roads, lords setting up "road blocks" to impede reinforcements).

Fatigue and Camping (AvaRice)
Long marches w/o sleep should have a drastic effect on morale.  AI parties should also camp at night.

Morale (DamienZharkoff)
Poor morale should have a much large, and much more obvious, effect on your party.  Have it effect tactics, surgery, troop effectiveness, looting, and more.  Losing troops should subtract from the morale you gain after battle.



I agree with all of these. No comment on the Carts&Wagons suggestion since it seems beyond the scope of this thread.


Grandmaster Knight
The only one I disagree with is the city screen. Personally, I like the menu. Also, cities take a while to load for me, and that also breaks the immersion.

To expand on the looting one, though: yes, the NPC screens should be available, and I suggest a feasible way to do this (given they're rather large, and technically limitless in number) would be to have 'previous' and 'next' buttons beneath the inventory, kind of like in the face bit of the character screen in edit mode.


Sergeant Knight
James said:
The only one I disagree with is the city screen. Personally, I like the menu. Also, cities take a while to load for me, and that also breaks the immersion.
hence why he said "Option"

Red River

Sergeant Knight
we really need a party browser. I'm tired of clickin' when I need to examine 10+ members in my party and that includes non companion ones... right now the way it works I can examine one member of my party at a time and then I'm kicked back on the map.
I suggest there's to be added back/forward or next/previous party member on the main examine screen after ya click Talk.


Sergeant Knight at Arms
Good stuff. Here are some I can remember:

1) Roads- roads that serve a purpose by providing a speed boost on the world map, and AI that reacts appropriately to utilize them (e.g. caravan routes, bandits patrolling near roads, lords setting up "road blocks" to impede reinforcements).

2) Fatigue and camping- long marches w/o sleep should have a drastic effect on morale. AI parties should also camp at night.



Sergeant Knight
heres a much needed one

Morale - Have it effect tactics, surgery, troop effectiveness, looting, and more

Lower morale give less loot as troops are less confident in you so take more then they are supposed to
Your troops abilities to listen to someone they have little respect for is alot less, so therefore overall tactics lower
Troops have less will to live as they begin to see an endless cycle of harsh treatment, lack of food, and dying friends

Troop deaths - Losing troops should subtract from the morale you gain after any battle


Injured units (including you and horses) move slower and are animated differently. Lower accuracy maybe and stuff like that.

Lt. of the tower

All these ideas are tied together. The first two are not my own but have been tweaked a bit.

1.) Faction specific clothing and armour:
Factions such as the Vaegirs share the same types of equipment as the Nords (ex. Nordic helmet) and Khergits (ex. lamellar vest). Making armour unique for each faction and minimising them using similar equipment will make each of them more interesting and fun. 
Also the Swadians and Rhodoks share the same padded cloth. Why not use the old mustard/brown padded cloth for the Rhodoks and the white one for Swadians? There are many more examples I could give but it would take all day. Also I do not discount the fact that all kinds of armour would be possible to acquire through a number of methods so factions using similar equipment is very possible.

2.) Faction sell specific items with little "other faction" products:
Smithies sell specific amour and weapons. For example, in a Swadian city: the smithy would specialise in plate armour and other heavier armours, while in a Khergit city lamellar and lighter armours are available.
Two enemy factions would have less of each others equipment for sale in the local smithy whilst allied and neutral factions specific arms and armour would be more likely to be purchased due to trading.

3.) Foreign Merchants:
Foreign merchants could make appearances in taverns if they come from another faction with goods and items. Player could buy items unavailable to them or ones which require distant travel to acquire.

Red River

Sergeant Knight

when stayin' in one of my fiefs settlements the food for my army should not come from my inventory and rather from the settlment instead.


(apologies if this has been fixed already)

I play in 1st person mode, and when using a 2h sword my own shoulder blocks my vision strangely.


Grandmaster Knight
Here's a bunch I posted on the release of .800
Many of which are still relevant.
Ingolifs said:
Here's just a bunch of small things which could improve the functionality and polish of the game.

-One should be able to open and close any screen at will by pressing the button. E.g. Press I for inventory button and it comes up. Press I again, and it goes away. Also, Press I to make the inventory come up. Press C to shut down the inventory screen and load the character screen. This just makes things more streamlined.

-Autoequip food. If you run out of food, and the autoequip toggle is ticked in the inventory screen, You automatically equip some food of the same type of that which you just run out of. e.g. If you finish eating dried meat, and you have dried meat and smoked fish in your inventory, it automatically equips the dried meat. If you only have smoked fish in your inventory, it just produces a prompt that you've run out of food.

-Ctrl click more functional. You can ctrl+click to transfer things from your inventory to a shop. But what if this is expanded?
If you have an empty weapon slot, Ctrl+click on a weapon automatically puts it in that slot. Likewise for Armour, head, glove and boot, horse and food.
In character screen, ctrl+clicking puts all your stat points/ skill points/ proficiency points into the one thing that you click, providing you are able to do it. e.g. you have 12 str and 2 ironflesh and 3 skill points. Ctrl clicking on ironflesh will fill the skill up to 4, because it's the maximum it can go. 2 points are used and one is spared. Likewise, if you have 80 proficiency points to spend, you could put them all into throwing with just one ctrl+click, provided your weapon master is high enough to allow it.
In the party screen, Ctrl clicking on a type of troop will transfer all of that troop over between you and whoever you're dealing with. If you have 70 swadian sharpshooters in your castle, you can ctrl+click to transfer them all over to you. Also, If your troops need upgrading, you ctrl+click on the upgrade button, and all troops that are available for upgrade are upgraded.

-Tournament masters could do with a bit of originality and info. First, before a fight but after you accept a new fight, he tells you what type of fight it's going to be (2vs2, 3vs3vs3, etc), and which team you'll be on.
Also, if there is any individuality between what types of match different arenas hold, The Tournament master could tell you about them. (e.g. "Welcome to te Reyvadin arena, famous for its battles involving three teams")

-The training dummies could do with some pain and death sounds (just sounds of being hit and falling over)

-Riderless horse AI should be tweaked so they don't go galloping through your own troops, bowling them over. Instead, they try to avoid running into other soldiers. Trick is, how to do this and still let soldiers be able to capture and mount horses.

-When you are 'captured' by an enemy after getting defeated by them, instead of having the viewpoint stay at where your party was last, perhaps it could follow the party that defeated you. You escape either by waiting out the full time in captivity, or, if the party is attacked or defeated before that time is up, you then escape.

-A dedicated button for taking screenshots.

-The ground painting and ground raising/lowering tools in the editor could use a bit of improvement. For one, there should be a visual indication on the size of the brush you're using, and perhaps the vertices that are in range to be affected should be highlighted.


Grandmaster Knight
I definitely agree with the whole nocking thing. Once you have an arrow nocked on the bow, you will be able to shoot straight away, even if you have been knocked down after being hit (as it stands, being hit seems to be a cue for taking the arrow off the bow :razz:).

Some other,  minor things that don't warrant a thread:

Bow trembling
Instead of having a random element every time you shoot, which isn't really that fun, there should be some minor trembling of the archer's arm (surprisingly little is needed to seriously affect the accuracy - about a centimetre off when aiming can lead to up to a metre off at 18m). This would mean that, with sufficient skill, you may be able to counteract the effects of having a low archery skill by moving the mouse in a different direction. When riding on a horse, the effect would be greater. As your archery skill, PD and Strength increase, the effect lessens.

Limited draw time
As it stands, you can draw the bow for an unlimited amount of time (of course, it's only accurate enough for melée by about 5 seconds). The more powerful bows (PD3 and above) should only let you draw for about 10 seconds (if you have a PD of 5 or so). Coupled with the above, it could make archery more versatile - that is, you can hold it for longer if you can counteract the trembling, instead of letting go after a second or two because the current aiming system makes chance come into it.
-After battle, you should have the option of killing the enemy wounded in case you don't have room for them in your prisoner qeue

-Weapons and armor should be degradable; lances should break easily when used from horseback, and wooden weapons should when they are used to parry

-Each weapon should have a parry rating

-There should be a parry skill similar to the shield proficency skill, or an all inclusive blocking skill for using both weapons and shields

- Once you get really rich and powerful, you should be able to have smiths make armor specifically tailored to your character

- You should be able to customize your character's height and body type and recieve bonuses or penalties based on your specifications; ex., if you make your character really big and fat, he could get a starting bonus to his strength but a penality to his agility or running speed, or perhaps giving your character ugly facial features could increase his persuasion skill but decrease his charisma.

- It would be cool to have more involvement with the taking of prisoners: you have to leave a few soldiers behind every battle to guard the prisoners while you fight, you can use prisoners to help in counstruction projects, and you have to buy shackles and rope in order to keep them from running away at night.


:oops:This might sound a bit lame, But what I would like to see fixed up is the ability to open a window by pressing a key and being able to close it by the same key, not having to grab and move the mouse down to the close button.

E.G. some time I just want a quick look at my party screen so I press The "P" key, it would be cool to just be able to press it again to close.

Alot of games have this implemented in there games and it makes the game a lot more free flowing and quicker to play, especially if your use to having this in game from other games, in M&B I have to keep reminding myself use the mouse to close a window :roll:.

Also, long loading/ launching times, anyway to shorten this?
at the moment I can go off and make a cup of tea while I wait,( no joke!)

thank's for listerning! :smile:


Ok one more suggestion,

Enemies that camp! ok as players we can camp when we want, but I've never seen or come across an enemy camping in the open or anywhere, it would be a cool to catch a bandit force camping out and catch them a sleep as it were, little bugger are to fast when you got a large force with you, just a thought.
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