Fighting Style

[Col Kurtz]

I believe while fighting on horseback, this game is great. I love the feel of it and i think it is balanced well.

For the fighting while dismounted, it feels a little dead. You dont have any options of which way you swing or which way you block. All you have is timing, speed, and reach. Block is just simply block with a shield.

Here is my suggestion, why cant we use the Q and E keys for Left and Right slash?

Q for left slash, E for right slash and LMB for thrust. For your shield, you must hold down RMB for centered sheild and then click Q and E for side attacks.

This would add a whole other layer of technique to the ground fighting. And it would be add some different fighting styles to the different weapons.

Thrusting with a spear (LMB) would do more damage then slashing (q or e). But you still have the option to slash to get around an opponents defense.

Spear maybe not the best example but say if you were to thrust (LMB) with an Axe, it would not hurt as much as if you used Q or E to slash with it, using its edge.

Feignting (spelling?) would be made easy then, just cancel your swing with another type of swing.

You can hold down one of the attack buttons until you get optimal power out of it and when you realease that is when it swings. I think that is the way it works now. You are vunrable during the hold of the swing and immediately after.

Using your shield by judging the opponents stance and motion and acting appropriatly with the correct RMB and Q, E combination. With out a shield it would be similar to the way it is done now, but with the directional control of left, middle, right.

So, if you get slashed on your left side and you had your shield on your right you would get the full damage. But if you got slashed on the left side and your sheild was in center, you would only get half damage cause the sheild would have blocked some of it. If you get slashed on the left side and you blocked left your shield would take all the damage.

Completely open to suggestions and critizism as long as they do not include "this is stupid" or "OMG your so dumb".

 

[Worbah]

Haven't you noticed the yellow arrows that float in the air? These indicate the direction of your attacks. You can already control the attack direction. If you want a left-to-right swing, aim to the left of your enemy, if you want a right-to-left swing, aim to the right of him. For a chop, aim above him. for a thrust, aim for his lower body.

 

[Col Kurtz]

I thought the directional arrows were for where your enemy is. If you just stand there looking straight and swinging, you will do a bunch of different swings.

Ill try tonight when i get a chance to confirm it.

Why would you even care which way you swing if the opponet just has to do a simple block to block it. I guess the only thing is weapons do different damage with different swings.

 

[Thingy Master]

Main reason is Feinting to make him block the wrong dirrection and you attack from the other side. And yes thrust and slash dammages are differnt slash being prefered

 

[Col Kurtz]

Main reason is Feinting to make him block the wrong dirrection and you attack from the other side. And yes thrust and slash dammages are differnt slash being prefered

Exactly but i dont think it can be used in the game now that way. Only on timing, not on direction.

Slash only being perfered by specific weapons though. Right? Wrong? Let me know.

Thx for the replies.

 

[Lost-Lamb]

Exactly but i dont think it can be used in the game now that way. Only on timing, not on direction.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=6067

 

[Col Kurtz]

Exactly but i dont think it can be used in the game now that way. Only on timing, not on direction.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=6067

Thanks.
I have read that post. But it doesnt really explain what we were talking about.

Please, any comments on the LMB, Q, and E combat style??

 

[jrawlings]

I thought the directional arrows were for where your enemy is. If you just stand there looking straight and swinging, you will do a bunch of different swings.

Ill try tonight when i get a chance to confirm it.

Why would you even care which way you swing if the opponet just has to do a simple block to block it. I guess the only thing is weapons do different damage with different swings.

You'll see that there are arrows above you and your opponent, dictating your swing and theirs, respectively.

@Worbah: With the agility of most enemies, it is difficult to control your swing because they move quite a bit laterally, so in close quarters it is difficult if not impossible to rapidly execute swing of choice, all while timing it between blocks and feints.

 

[Worbah]

IMO the best system would be the one in Daggerfall. I've explained it a million times, try and search the suggestion forum.

 

[Bearhugger]

the arrows dont work properly, while on horseback (where its important whether you swing from left to right or other way round) i often prepare the wrong kind of attack.
while fighting on foot it doesnt matter if you swing left-right or right-left, just slash slash slash with great sword. occasionally i thrust without intending to do so; i dont like that.
i also dont like how a person that prepares a swing for somebody that is in front of him, hits me with full force when i happen to be beside that one person (the one swinging). the momentum wouldnt have built up und i would - if ever - only suffer a minor wound.
i experience this alot in tournaments, except that the other riders prepare that swing for me (while not facing me), then i ride close wanting to hit them from the back, but when my timing is bad i get knocked out (from a person thats not facing me/maybe not even knowing im behind him)!
if one should be able to attack things behind his back then he has to prepare a different attack (new button for this?)

 

[Vachir]

I still hate the yellow arrows. Much better to simply attack in the direction of movement so that angle off in relation to your enemy isn't what determines your attack.

 

[Volkier]

Well, the problem I have is my swings coming from the complete opposite direction that I want, because the game doesn't recognise which enemy I want to aim for, and sometimes just does it (maybe because I turn on the horse too much). Its something like when I'm on a horse I would expect that when im looking to the left of the head, I would attack on the left, while if I'm looking to the right, I would attack on the right. Foot combat, I've given up since its too biased on side attacks, once again concentrates on different enemies (not the one I'm actually fighting with) and for some reason even if I'm aiming at the sky, I would still sometimes attack from the side. So I just treat it as random, and would certainly love to see some improvement regarding this matter. Think there has already been a thread, but nobody could agree on what they want.

I would be happy with daggerfall style, where you press a button and move your mouse, or Jedi Knights style, where derection of movement executes the attack (strafe left / right = slash left / right, forward backwards = slash up to down, behind etc.) Infact I would be happy with anything, as long as its not 1 key for an attack from 1 side.. Problem with that is that a LOT of people re-configure their keys. It just makes combat too un-enjoyable, and it would make things like strafe left + slash left difficult to execute.

We have to take into account, that most people have 2 hands. 1 hand (first 3 fingers) are dedicated to movement - nothing else, since you would almost always be moving during combat - those are the WASD keys for most people (or somewhat similar, for me its WQSE since I strafe and move forward more).

The last finger in such a configuration would be comfortable on the "tab" key - this is used by most people as part of their movement (sprint if game has it for example) or do a passive function such as zoom / activate.

This would bring the thumb resting on the space-bar, BUT which can still reach the alt key, or any other counter-command of the space-bar. (For example if your space bar is JUMP, you can configure "alt, c and v" for any other commands which you would not be using while you are jumping. Personally I jump with right-mouse, since I configure 'c' for crouch in most FPS games, hence I can still crouch-jump without compromises.) Most people would use this for either movement functions, or other passive function, which they access often throughout the battle. This could be anything - jump, defend, zoom.

"c" and "v" buttons (sometimes "v" and "b" depending on hand size) as well as "alt" are still reachable by your thumb, however since you need to be more accurate with them, they are for commands which do not require quick response (or at least AS quick), such as activate, (vision changes, laser sights etc. in most FPS, can't think of many in M&B). These keys are not assosiated with movement, because they do not provide an arrow 'feel', since the buttons are not in symetrically positioned, and do not resemble direction to a human brain.

Lastly, there is still the palm, which rests on control, however since the palm is more or less a stationary part of the hand, this is reserved for the really extra in-essential keys.

I can say I'm making this up, but actually probably every single game's default keys are based upon this logic today. Those companies probably did proper studies and can explain better than me.

So any case, having a button for 'slashing' executed by the same 'movement' fingers, would really be uncomfortable and inefficient. (in my oppinion at least, and I would think most people would agree)... Having the direction of slashing intergrated into the movement, is a completely different story alltogether, but some people would not like that (if I can remember the prevoius discussion)... So its all a matter of waiting, and seeing what Armagan thinks works best..

 

[triato]

I would sugest a special button, once you press it all your attacks would change but you would still choose which to do with the yellow arrows. The new attacks would have an special preparation so one could recognize it and press the special buton and defence to block it.

For example if you have a glaive, press the special buton and then the attack mouse buton when the arrow is pointing down, you get a short distance upwards swing. If you are on the reciving side you would see your enemy puting the glaive edge behind his back and then swing, when he puts the glaive back you know it is the special blow so you press special + defence to block it. Some special blows could be defended by normal defence in the case they come from the same direction but they would have diferent reaching and effects.

I think that would ad variety to the game and would make defending harder and more challendging.

 

[Talon68]

Just what I have to say about holding it to charge the attack. THERE IS NO SUCH THING IN REAL LIFE. If you are in a sword fight with someone, you do not hold it back for 3 seconds to increase the damage of your attack, you swing it hard and fast, bwecause speed= Momentum= a harder hit.

I hate it when people talk on these forums about including "game-like" mechanics which we have all seen in games before. Examples are charged up attacks, quests, fire arrows and armour values. Armour is armour, whatever you want to say. Fire arrows wouldn't do an area of effect damage, they would fall to the floor and snuff out, or they would hit their targets and either go out or burn them a little instead of rupturing vital organs.

People on this forum need to think about realism when they sugest thing. Now I'm sure that this game couldn't be 100% realistic because that would ruin the fun, but there needs to be a line drawn.

 

[Worbah]

The relation of cause and effect must resemble real life, but other than that, **** realism. Do you want your character to die fighting a single river pirate? do you want him/her to die from tetanus because of a scratch you got a week back? No. you want the game to be enjoyable.

Anyway, those of you who would like to see the game feature a 'walk to the direction to which you want to swing'-system, try Morrowind with 'always use best attack'-turned off. then you'll realize how idiotic it is. The system in Daggerfall, however, is perfect.

 

[Yoshiboy]

realism, realism, realism, thats all i hear on gaming/modding forums these days. The more realistic you try to make a game the more people complain about how unrealistic it is.

If you want something to be realistic why not try getting a real life.

 

[thadivine]

Ilike especially fantasy games. realism means nothing to me in games, place a human wich fights with an axe from 5 meters and i wouldnt care.

We NEED fantasy

 

[Phantasy Star]

There is a fine balance of realism and fantasy in combat which can make or break a game. The balance is VERY hard to get and I have to be critical and say I have never played a game that has got it perfect but this game and a few others have come close.

I think for this game all that is absolutly nesessary is differant swings and being able to very clearly choose which direction to swing. Also there are a few points with sheilds to do with realism in combat but that would be going kinda off-topic so I think I'll leave that for another thread

 

[triato]

I hate charged attacks, holding in some position while gatering strenght is not fun to me. However, just like while boxing you can punch from your guard, you can also pull your fist back to have more momentum and to use mor muscles in your hit, of course your oponent will see your intentions and all your gained strenght is going to fall on thin air probably.

In M&B we don't have charged attacks, we have pulled back attacks, however in fencing (I know little about that so correct me if I am wrong) with large swords unlike the repier it is harder to hit from a neutral position so I like the way we prepare the hit here in m&B.

 

[ltfm]

configure ur change weapon and change shield button to v and b

then hold down the attack button and press v or b while holding......