fief defense mod ideas for .890

[bravesirknight]

Well, looking at all the talk in general and my own thoughts on .890, people want the fiefs battles to be more interesting and dynamic ASAP I think. A good way to do that would be to actually give them a defense upgrade tree.

Here's a tree I whipped up, note all positions are not killable/hero-like unless noted.

Fief Defense Upgrade Tree:


level 1 - guard posts, adds 4 little wooden guard posts around town, with slits for shooting and an armed guard inside.

level 2 - town guard - adds 12 decently armored (not heavy though) and equipped guards to fight should the fief be attacked

level 3 - fortified perimeter - adds a wall with multiple points for shooters. enemy can only attack from outside. adds 6 crossbow/archers.

level 4 - heavy defenders - adds 1 heavily armed and armored sergeant, and 3 heavily armored mounted captains to fight. adds 4 to town guard.

level 5 - war garrison - builds a functional garrison area that allows you to station up to 20 of your own troops, they will fight if attacked. unlike native villager positions, they can die in these fights.

further levels - each level increase guard by 1, fortified wall archers by 1, garrison level by 4. each 2 levels also adds a new mounted captain and 1 extra guard.


Thoughts, ability to actually mod this? Anyone want to help or offer to program? I can make models fairly easily.

 

[Buxton]

Very good idea, I'm very interested in this.

 

[Servitor]

I would say, wait until they have completed this one version, with a bug-fix, only then can you be sure that Taleworlds won't add something like that them selfs.

 

[bravesirknight]

I don't see any defense options so I'm not so sure they'll be here with the bug fix. In a future version for sure, but this would be something to play in the mean time.

 

[Fujiwara]

Looking at the map_icons file and seeing what happens in game, I'm almost certain the devs have added the party_set_icon operation I asked for You could certainly reflect the level of defense (among other things) with different icons.

 

[Dvd]

I think that your suggested upgrade path is much too fast. Perhaps something more like...

Level 1: Ditch
A simple ditch dug around the perimeter of town, designed to slow down a cavarly advance.

Level 2: Log-Pikes
Sharpened logs, set in a "spike", placed at strategic areas around the interior of the ditch. Designed to act as rudimentary walls that cavarly will have to ride around.

Level 3: Palisade Wall I
Small wood wall around the interior of the Log-Pikes. Designed to act as rudimentary walls that infantry\cavarly will have to find a way around.

Level 4: Militia
Small force of badly armored\armed soldiers\archers based on size of fief.

Level 5: Palisade Wall II
Taller palisade wall, plus area for archers to stand on wall and small stairs. Designed to act as rudimentary walls that infantry\cavarly will have to find a way around and as firing platforms.

Level 6: Palisade Tower I
Small towers placed along the wall, with short staircases to the top for archers. Designed to act as rudimentary firing platforms.

Level 7: Palisade Gate I
Simple wood gate, must be either opened by lever within town or battered down by axes\battering ram.

Level 8: Palisade Tower II
More towers, better coverage of those inside. Designed to act as rudimentary firing platforms.

Level 9: Palisade Gate II
Stronger gate, must be either opened by lever within town or battered down by axes\battering ram.

Level 10: Town Guard
Average armored\armed soldiers\archers based on fief size.

Level 11: Stone Improvements I
Stone bases added to palisade & towers.

Level 12: Stone Improvements II
Palisades replaced by short stone walls with wooden firing platforms and stairs. Towers halfway built with stone, halfway with wood.

Level 13: Stone Improvements III
Stone walls with wooden platforms replaced with taller all stone walls and wood towers replaced with stone towers.

Level 14: Improved Gate
Gate made out of heavy wood and iron, must be breached with battering ram (or Siege Tower can be pushes up to walls).

Level 15: Fort
Stone Fort added to town. Serves as base for castle, and adds well armed and armored soldiers\archers to defense, units can be "stored" in town for defense.

Level 16: Castle I
Stone Fort, and all stone walls\towers, improved upon. Average level faction units can now be recruited from castle.

Level 17: Town I
All buildings significantly improved. Population\taxes greatly increased, now has shops: Blacksmith, Tavern.

Level 18: Castle II
All defenses significantly improved. Town defensive units armor\weapons improved significantly.

Level 19: Town II
All buildings significantly improved. Chance for trading caravans to leave and arrive, now has shops: Weaponsmith, Goods.

Level 20: City
Fief changes to "City". All buildings\defenses significantly improved. Recognized as city by all parties on map. Now has Arena.

... Yes, it's a long list, but it's designed to keep people playing for a long time and to reward them with a true city in the end.

 

[Nethoras]

perhaps there could be empty lots, that you copuld build whatever you wanted in them, and when you came back after a certain period of time you would see more prgress on the building, you would have to buy more lots from the lord or something and then once you wen to the "visit village center thing" there would be lots, with an invisible npc, (you would see a sign or something) when you talked to it you would see a menu of what to builld, I would help wiht models best I could...

 

[Fujiwara]

perhaps there could be empty lots, that you copuld build whatever you wanted in them, and when you came back after a certain period of time you would see more prgress on the building, you would have to buy more lots from the lord or something and then once you wen to the "visit village center thing" there would be lots, with an invisible npc, (you would see a sign or something) when you talked to it you would see a menu of what to builld, I would help wiht models best I could...

This is possible with .808. The only thing that really gets added, from a graphical standpoint, is the changing icons. Of course, all the faction AI I had to script in to Onin no Ran seems to come pre-packaged now for v.890, which I don't mind so much

 

[Nethoras]

even though it was possible with the last version, it'd still be cool, or something like this could happen at random, maybe depndings on the needs of the city, they would build something to accomadate in the lots, so if the village had almost no food they would build mills and farms, or if they needed housing they would build a bunch of hovels in a lot, or if your town was thriving they would build things like banks theatres statues, galleries, etc.

 

[triato]

But what if you have enough money and instead of buying the wooden towers want to jump to the stone ones, or to begin with a mixwd stone-wood wall. If you could aford it , why go through all those levels. Those things wont come cheap, I know, but by the time you get your 4th fief you may have the money to go in the order you want.

I think that instead of levels you should have a menu for your next building construction, if you can afford it and have the engenier skill (or someone on your party does), then you can build it.

Also, material availability may play a role, some places were to far for any stone and stone buildings there would be very expensive, but as many cultures show us not imposible.

 

[fisheye]

FYI Armagan said they'd be releasing new version faster after .89. So be careful of hasty wasted effort.

 

[bravesirknight]

Those things wont come cheap, I know, but by the time you get your 4th fief you may have the money to go in the order you want.

You can get more than 1 fief? (not counting castles which this mod isn't intended for yet)

As for levels I think they're more fun gameplay. If you could make a fortress in a day, it wouldn't be as cool to have to put up with fighting on the less complete levels first and later have the satisfaction of a better defense. It also would give different enemies a chance to attack you, for example smaller raiding parties early on.

I like the City building ideas and the trench but a lot of things will depend on complexity. I think this mod should start small and focused at any rate.,

 

[Llew2]

@Dvd: I like what you have there! But how are you thinking the player would actually upgrade, would he just pay a certain amount of gold for each one? I ask because I think it would be more realistic if the player had to get the recourses (somehow) to the village, say, hire caravans to carry the wood/stone/tools to the site before it actually gets built. Just an idea. 

 

[triato]

Those things wont come cheap, I know, but by the time you get your 4th fief you may have the money to go in the order you want.

You can get more than 1 fief? (not counting castles which this mod isn't intended for yet)

As for levels I think they're more fun gameplay. If you could make a fortress in a day, it wouldn't be as cool to have to put up with fighting on the less complete levels first and later have the satisfaction of a better defense. It also would give different enemies a chance to attack you, for example smaller raiding parties early on.

I like the City building ideas and the trench but a lot of things will depend on complexity. I think this mod should start small and focused at any rate.,

sorry, town.

And it would not be that way, you could only build faster once you are very rich, and if you build faster in one town, another may be left defenceless.

Also, before you own many towns, you would start from the begining, you can save money defending a town with no defence buildings for a while and then build some good buildings, or you can start building the cheap ones as soon as you can and then improove.

You would build what you think is better at the moment and what you can aford. For example, if your enemy has little cavalry, why would you build cavalry defence improvements at the begining?

 

[triato]

@Dvd: I like what you have there! But how are you thinking the player would actually upgrade, would he just pay a certain amount of gold for each one? I ask because I think it would be more realistic if the player had to get the recourses (somehow) to the village, say, hire caravans to carry the wood/stone/tools to the site before it actually gets built. Just an idea.   

That is what I would like too

 

[Fujiwara]

I think that instead of levels you should have a menu for your next building construction, if you can afford it and have the engenier skill (or someone on your party does), then you can build it.

I think the way to handle this would be to assign 'building points' to each level of fortifications, which each level costing more than the last. That way, if a player has the funds, they can go straight to mixed stone/wood, but would take longer than simple wood fortifications alone.

 

[bravesirknight]

Well I wonder if simultaneous building is possible. Then you could be putting up temp defenses that take a few weeks while working on big things that take much longer.

 

[triato]

I think that instead of levels you should have a menu for your next building construction, if you can afford it and have the engenier skill (or someone on your party does), then you can build it.

I think the way to handle this would be to assign 'building points' to each level of fortifications, which each level costing more than the last. That way, if a player has the funds, they can go straight to mixed stone/wood, but would take longer than simple wood fortifications alone.

That´s what I was trying tosay

 

[morgoth2005]

Reminds me of Dionisia.

 

[Dvd]

@Dvd: I like what you have there! But how are you thinking the player would actually upgrade, would he just pay a certain amount of gold for each one? I ask because I think it would be more realistic if the player had to get the recourses (somehow) to the village, say, hire caravans to carry the wood/stone/tools to the site before it actually gets built. Just an idea.   

I'm thinking that you would pay some "starter" gold and then caravans would start coming from the nearest town of your faction. If a certain number of caravans reaches the town, and a certain number of days pass, then the "level" will be finished. So basically, you pay your town people so that they can buy the needed goods from the caravan to finish the building of whatever improvement you wanted. The reason I suggested you go in "levels" was because it makes more sense to progress up a path that slowly gets harder, ie; most costly yet stronger. If you could just say "Eh, I've got 1000000000 denars, I'm gonna skip building all these things" it should ATLEAST take a lot longer to build a 1337 stone wall, because YOU DON'T HAVE A BASE FOR IT. Most times walls were built over old walls, adding on and on. The only time I can think of a medieval king going crazy and building castles left and right was that one guy who invaded England (?) or something and started making like 700 castles or something crazy.

Now, the reason I say caravans AND time AND gold, is because it makes sense. First you pay the gold for the work to get started. Then you'll either need to protect the caravans along the route or just hope enough reach the town (ie; 3 out of 5 caravans sent) for construction to begin, then you wait for the building to finish.

As you progress up the levels, upgrades take more time, more gold, and perhaps more caravans. HOWEVER, it's a linear route that way. If you go the otherway and spend 10000000000000000 denars to jump instantly from no defenses to 1337 stone walls it should be exponential and cost you a ton of gold (much more than upgrading a stone\wood wall to full stone), a ton of caravans (need more resources, you're not building off an existing structure), and much more time (see previous reasons).