Ferguson Riots

[Krik]

I never said his death was unwarranted, I'm just saying it's kind of a prick thing to call a dead person you've never met a ****ty person, when you know next to nothing about them. I mean given that day's events alone, he was a ****ty guy, but he had an entire life leading up to that point that you and I know nothing about. The only fault I have with his death is that the cop chose to leave his taser at home because it wasn't comfortable, because he's literally putting his comfort over someone's life in several not-unlikely scenarios.

 

[Austupaio]

he's literally putting his comfort over someone's life in several not-unlikely scenarios.

Correction, someone else was putting their lives at risk when they attacked a cop, more so because the cop was feeling a little lazy that day.

Also, even if he had it, he probably wouldn't have used nor been expected to.

Tazers are unreliable and are for pairs of cops to use. Wilson was alone, and in fear for his life. He still would have been justified to shoot, just as any civilian would have been.

 

[Krik]

Still, it's kind of inexcusable. A mentally ill person might attack a lone cop and they would have no choice but to shoot him. Then it's not just a thug it's practically an innocent person. I know that's not what happened but it easily could happen and if Wilson was responding by himself it'd be a dead mentally ill person.

 

[Austupaio]

You do understand how a Tazer is used right? One person cannot effectively or safely incapacitate and cuff someone without a partner.

 

[Tibertus]

They're also extremely unreliable. Larger individuals tend to be unphased by them.

 

[Cernunos]

A mentally ill person might attack a lone cop and they would have no choice but to shoot him. Then it's not just a thug it's practically an innocent person.

And how do you tell if he is mentally ill ? You wait for him to kill you ? And then, what if that person agresses another unarmed person, even a kid ? Da****.

We have very big self-defense issues in France. Basically, if you are not killed by the assaulter, you will go to a judge. Bull****s. The result is that crimes robbery and stuff, are rising in France, "good" citizens feel unprotected, a vast majority of the assaults are from african/eastern immigrants, "good" citizens are mad that someone defending himself is considered the exact same as a criminal, and so they vote for the party clearly saying that there is a problem that should be taken care of, that is, in France, FN.

From what I see, lying on the ground and shuting your mouth up should be a basic Citizen skill when dealing with US cops. Well, some people still don't seem to understand that...

Would it have made to the news if martin had been white ? Of course not, This is anti white racism.

I don't think good/behaving people in the US have much to fear from their cops...

I, for one, wouldn't want to see the "right take over" in place of "the left." Rather, I'd like to see something more akin to moderation and power-sharing so that neither extreme dominates any particular domain of life.

Of course, me too. I wasn't BORN racist. (Actually, the first (I was really kiddy, maybe 6-7yo. Still remembers it) interaction I remember with an arab was when he tricked me into giving him toys I never got back...) My family definitely is not, we even have blacks in our family. I became racist. I think myself into racism and anti immigrants, using arguments. Some stuff that are going on in France are intolerable, on a "freedom" of speech (if people can be charlie, why on earth some dumb piece of muslim **** CAN'T be charlie ? THAT would be freedom of speech. Yes, Freedom of speech can hurt.) point of view, security, moral...

 

[rebelknight]

I for one, wouldn't want to see the "right take over" in place of "the left." Rather, I'd like to see something more akin to moderation and power-sharing so that neither extreme dominates any particular domain of life.

+1

 

[Kobrag]

They're also extremely unreliable. Larger individuals tend to be unphased by them.

...
Do you know any human biology?
Muscles painfully contract in response to electric shocks.
No matter what size you are.
And one particularly major organ is controlled by a semi-autonomous electric current...which is very prone to failing due to external electric stimuli.

The only way to resist is to have thick, loose clothing or the pins to miss or not penetrate.

Do you know how mind-bendingly painful it is to suffer from complete or targeted muscular seizures? Particularly in law cases to the chest? No? That's what I thought. 

 

[Austupaio]

...
Do you know any human biology?
Muscles painfully contract in response to electric shocks.
No matter what size you are.
And one particularly major organ is controlled by a semi-autonomous electric current...which is very prone to failing due to external electric stimuli.

Except larger people give the pins most room for error, as hitting someone in body fat or particularly thick areas of skin will cause them to fail to penetrate or deliver the current. Larger people have more chance to resist Tazers. Period. Tazer, the company, says so themselves.

Do you know how mind-bendingly painful it is to suffer from complete or targeted muscular seizures? Particularly in law cases to the chest? No? That's what I thought. 

Does Tibertus? I don't know. Do I? Yes, I do. Just because you like to talk about everything as if you're an expert when you truly have no clue, doesn't mean that all of us do.

As much as people like to cling to it, Darren Wilson's choice not to carry a less-than-lethal device, while wrong and worthy of minor occupational discipline, would not have significantly affected the situation that led to Brown's death.

This has all been discussed to death, none of the protesters ever have anything to say afterwords, and it has been settled in the courts. Back on the matter of the current shootings, as much as I dislike the militarization going on in Ferguson, I hope SWAT or the NG are able take down the shooters, and that they do so harshly.

 

[Kobrag]

...
Do you know any human biology?
Muscles painfully contract in response to electric shocks.
No matter what size you are.
And one particularly major organ is controlled by a semi-autonomous electric current...which is very prone to failing due to external electric stimuli.

Except larger people give the pins most room for error, as hitting someone in body fat or particularly thick areas of skin will cause them to fail to penetrate or deliver the current. Larger people have more chance to resist Tazers. Period. Tazer, the company, says so themselves.

Do you know how mind-bendingly painful it is to suffer from complete or targeted muscular seizures? Particularly in law cases to the chest? No? That's what I thought. 

Does Tibertus? I don't know. Do I? Yes, I do. Just because you like to talk about everything as if you're an expert when you truly have no clue, doesn't mean that all of us do.

As much as people like to cling to it, Darren Wilson's choice not to carry a less-than-lethal device, while wrong and worthy of minor occupational discipline, would not have significantly affected the situation that led to Brown's death.

This has all been discussed to death, none of the protesters ever have anything to say afterwords, and it has been settled in the courts. Back on the matter of the current shootings, as much as I dislike the militarization going on in Ferguson, I hope SWAT or the NG are able take down the shooters, and that they do so harshly.

...
Dude, I have posted hundreds of times that I suffer from seizing. 
And you don;t know if it wouldn't have changed anything, that is speculation. And to be balanced, saying that carrying a tazer would have definatly changed things, would also be speculation. However it would have opened up a chance that M.B wouldn't be shot, unarmed, like a sick dog.

As a firm proponent of the legal system, any ability the police have to pursue lethal means outside terrorism, raiding gang related facilities and specifically responding to firearms offences is a direct drenching of the spirit of the legal system in foul urine.

 

[Austupaio]

... Dude, I have posted hundreds of times that I suffer from seizing. 

I haven't seen that, but even if I had there's two reasons that doesn't hold up.
You've got a really old reputation of saying **** of really questionable validity.
I don't really see how seizures of... basically any variety could compare to a Tazer, at least nothing that I'm aware of.

And you don;t know if it wouldn't have changed anything, that is speculation. And to be balanced, saying that carrying a tazer would have definatly changed things, would also be speculation. However it would have opened up a chance that M.B wouldn't be shot, unarmed, like a sick dog.

Yes, I do, because I know that if Wilson had tazed him, it would have only dissuaded the attacker for up to a minute or two, which would not have given Wilson time to receive back up. If Brown had attacked him again, and he would have, it would have been the exact same situation there was now, Brown went for the gun.

Also 'unarmed, like a sick dog'... are you kidding me? He was a giant robber who was actively attempting to arm himself.

As a firm proponent of the legal system, any ability the police have to pursue lethal means outside terrorism, raiding drugs gangs and specifically responding to firearms offences is a direct drenching of the spirit of the legal system in foul urine.

Said someone with no experience nor education regarding criminal justice.

 

[Kobrag]

... Dude, I have posted hundreds of times that I suffer from seizing. 

I haven't seen that, but even if I had there's two reasons that doesn't hold up.
You've got a really old reputation of saying **** of really questionable validity.
I don't really see how seizures of... basically any variety could compare to a Tazer, at least nothing that I'm aware of.

And you don't know if it wouldn't have changed anything, that is speculation. And to be balanced, saying that carrying a tazer would have definatly changed things, would also be speculation. However it would have opened up a chance that M.B wouldn't be shot, unarmed, like a sick dog.

Yes, I do, because I know that if Wilson had tazed him, it would have only dissuaded the attacker for up to a minute or two, which would not have given Wilson time to receive back up. If Brown had attacked him again, and he would have, it would have been the exact same situation there was now, Brown went for the gun.

Also 'unarmed, like a sick dog'... are you kidding me? He was a giant robber who was actively attempting to arm himself.

As a firm proponent of the legal system, any ability the police have to pursue lethal means outside terrorism, raiding drugs gangs and specifically responding to firearms offences is a direct drenching of the spirit of the legal system in foul urine.

Said someone with no experience nor education regarding criminal justice.

Whilst it's incorrect to compare my seizing to that of a tazer, due to false equivalence, but it's hard to not project the pain from my own experiences.

Second, M.B was recklessly pursued by this man, despite having video evidence of him, having facial description and  Brown being already known to the police.

He could have disengaged and M.B coud have been arrested fairly peacefully at any other time, however, the police officer instead deliberately put himself into danger so that in the end he felt  had no other option but to shoot Brown.

Third, Not the American one no, though I am reading up on it. But I do have some small experience and knowledge with, and have preference for, the UK police procedures in accordance to firearm use.

 

[Austupaio]

Whilst it's incorrect to compare my seizing to that of a tazer, due to false equivalence, but it;s hard to not project the pain from my own experiences.

Kinda is, because if you knew much about them... Tazer shocks aren't really painful. A Tazer uses the electrical current to lock up your muscles and stop them from communicating properly. That's why a Tazer can affect someone regardless of their personal endurance, even if they are not always successful at doing so. Once you've regained motor control, a Tazer's effect mainly makes you feel stiff and sore, as if you just exhausted yourself straining your muscles... 'cause you did.

A stun gun is pain based, and also a completely inefficient method of incapacitation.

Second, M.B was recklessly pursued by this man, despite having video evidence of him, having facial description and  Brown being already known to the police.

Pursued after committing a crime?! By the police?! Unthinkable!

He could have disengaged and M.B coud have been arrested fairly peacefully at any other time, the police officer deliberately put himself into danger so that he had no other option but to shoot Brown.

He could have left the violent criminal to retreat, and that criminal could have gone on to steal or destroy more property, and possibly harm or kill other people. There is no guarantee he could have been arrested 'peacefully' later or even caught at all. The police deliberately pursued Brown so that he could arrest him, because that's what police officers do, you stupid ****. It's their job.

Third, Not the American one no, though I am reading up on it, but I do have some small experience and knowledge with and have preference for the UK police procedures in accordance to firearm use.

Well, neither Brown nor Wilson were from the U.K, so kindly **** off. We actually arrest criminals here, not give them a cookie for their good deed.

 

[Kobrag]

Whilst it's incorrect to compare my seizing to that of a tazer, due to false equivalence, but it;s hard to not project the pain from my own experiences.

Kinda is, because if you knew much about them... Tazer shocks aren't really painful. A Tazer uses the electrical current to lock up your muscles and stop them from communicating properly. That's why a Tazer can affect someone regardless of their personal endurance, even if they are not always successful at doing so. Once you've regained motor control, a Tazer's effect mainly makes you feel stiff and sore, as if you just exhausted yourself straining your muscles... 'cause you did.

A stun gun is pain based, and also a completely inefficient method of incapacitation.

Second, M.B was recklessly pursued by this man, despite having video evidence of him, having facial description and  Brown being already known to the police.

Pursued after committing a crime?! By the police?! Unthinkable!

He could have disengaged and M.B coud have been arrested fairly peacefully at any other time, the police officer deliberately put himself into danger so that he had no other option but to shoot Brown.

He could have left the violent criminal to retreat, and that criminal could have gone on to steal or destroy more property, and possibly harm or kill other people. There is no guarantee he could have been arrested 'peacefully' later or even caught at all. The police deliberately pursued Brown so that he could arrest him, because that's what police officers do, you stupid ****. It's their job.

Third, Not the American one no, though I am reading up on it, but I do have some small experience and knowledge with and have preference for the UK police procedures in accordance to firearm use.

Well, neither Brown nor Wilson were from the U.K, so kindly **** off. We actually arrest criminals here, not give them a cookie for their good deed.

I don't appreciate your tone.
And you fell into my trap 
The police chief himself  stated with the release of the robbery footage that the officer responsible was not in contact and had no idea Brown had committed a robbery or any crimes at all.
He was initially confronted because 'he was blocking traffic.'

You obviously read nothing of this case and blindly supported the officer based on partisan lines.

Edit, inserting quote

 

[Austupaio]

I don't appreciate your tone.

I don't appreciate your sappy emotional bull**** about how innocent and sweet someone you've never met is, while simultaneously going on about how you can't judge someone you've never met.

And you fell into my trap 

Not much of a trap, nothing I said hinges on my statements of...

Pursued after committing a crime?! By the police?! Unthinkable!

e could have left the violent criminal to retreat, and that criminal could have gone on to steal or destroy more property, and possibly harm or kill other people. There is no guarantee he could have been arrested 'peacefully' later or even caught at all. The police deliberately pursued Brown so that he could arrest him, because that's what police officers do, you stupid ****. It's their job.

...both of those stand on their own, independently, with no relevance required.

You obviously read nothing of this case and blindly supported the officer based on partisan lines.

No, I didn't recall the exact details because I've also been looking at the cases in New York and L.A, and it happened months ago, further I didn't realize you were going to stoop to out-right lying in this fashion to make your point. Thanks for fully confirming it though, I've known you were full of **** since I first started posting.

Partisan lines? I've actively demonized the NYPD officers who strangled, murdered, the big black tax-evading cigarette seller. You know, one of over nine-thousand on-going cases of police abuse, each of which I've been attempting to follow, because they have unique details that make me decide whether or not to support them. I'm not partisan, that's clearly you, demonizing all Americans and police with nothing to back it up.

...but okay, you go on ahead thinking you won because you pulled a fast one, Mr. Transgender-Quaker-Jew-with-Rare-Illness.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

The officer also alleged that Brown reached into his car and fought with him, with Brown's blood in the car to support. Obstructing traffic might not have been a major offence, but laying your hands on a police officer in a violent manner is going to escalate things a lot. I have a hard time picturing the police not chasing after someone who disobeyed a summon for a traffic infringement, I have an even harder time imagining a police officer not giving chase after someone has assaulted them.

 

[Kobrag]

I don't appreciate your tone.

I don't appreciate your sappy emotional bull**** about how innocent and sweet someone you've never met is, while simultaneously going on about how you can't judge someone you've never met.

And you fell into my trap 

Not much of a trap, nothing I said hinges on my statements of...

Pursued after committing a crime?! By the police?! Unthinkable!

e could have left the violent criminal to retreat, and that criminal could have gone on to steal or destroy more property, and possibly harm or kill other people. There is no guarantee he could have been arrested 'peacefully' later or even caught at all. The police deliberately pursued Brown so that he could arrest him, because that's what police officers do, you stupid ****. It's their job.

...both of those stand on their own, independently, with no relevance required.

You obviously read nothing of this case and blindly supported the officer based on partisan lines.

No, I didn't recall the exact details because I've also been looking at the cases in New York and L.A, and it happened months ago, further I didn't realize you were going to stoop to out-right lying in this fashion to make your point. Thanks for fully confirming it though, I've known you were full of **** since I first started posting.

Partisan lines? I've actively demonized the NYPD officers who strangled, murdered, the big black tax-evading cigarette seller. You know, one of over nine-thousand on-going cases of police abuse, each of which I've been attempting to follow, because they have unique details that make me decide whether or not to support them. I'm not partisan, that's clearly you, demonizing all Americans and police with nothing to back it up.

...but okay, you go on ahead thinking you won because you pulled a fast one, Mr. Transgender-Quaker-Jew-with-Rare-Illness.

You are cranky and sweary this morning, which is why I thought this was a purely political issue with you.
Brown was an arsehole, a possibly irredeemable one. A criminal, a thug, a lowlife, a god damn despicable person.
Arseholes don't usually get shot.
Yes I claim to try not to judge people, but I have a thing for people being sloppy when doing their jobs.

The officer also alleged that Brown reached into his car and fought with him, with Brown's blood in the car to support. Obstructing traffic might not have been a major offence, but laying your hands on a police officer in a violent manner is going to escalate things a lot. I have a hard time picturing the police not chasing after someone who disobeyed a summon for a traffic infringement, I have an even harder time imagining a police officer not giving chase after someone has assaulted them.

Whilst it is fluid evidence that they fought, other than the officers statement, there is no other evidence to support brown was attempting to lethally engage Wilson or retrieve his firearm.
I really don;t se how assaulting a police officer is a requisite for lethal force rather than further imprisonment.
They are Police officers, equal as citizens under the law, not the bloody inquisition or the president.

 

[Splintert]

You don't see how assaulting a police officer is grounds for that police officer to respond in kind? What if Wilson wasn't a cop, just a citizen who happened to be carrying a gun? Is it okay then?

 

[Austupaio]

They are Police officers, equal as citizens under the law, not the bloody inquisition or the president.

Yes, they are equal to citizens.

A citizen would have the right to engage in lethal self-defense if a situation were so escalated that an attacker was taking their firearm, and they had reasonable fear that the attacker would be able to successfully take the firearm from them, such as the attacker being significantly larger and on top of them.

A civilian in Wilson's situation would have been justified to shoot in self-defense. Therefore, so was Wilson.

I really don;t se how assaulting a police officer is a requisite fore lethal force rather than further imprisonment.

As stated again and again, but you people are too thick to see it, Wilson did not prescribe lethal force to punish Brown, he used lethal force in self-defense which resulted in Brown's death.

You are cranky and sweary this morning,

Yeah, that happens when the people continuing this stupid, off-topic discussion also happen to be blatantly spewing out-right lies.

 

[Kobrag]

I fully admit that I failed to engage an argument properly. Being willfully ignorant of some of your more objectionable cultural customs.
However I am annoyed to to be labeled as a liar in this instance.