Uh ok, how are your statements different from someone screeching at women to just "keep their legs closed" etc. "Just don't have sex lmao" is literally the hard core religious pro-lifer's ""advice"".
Surely not having sex as a man is not the equivalent of a woman having to ponder abortion. A man not having sex is the equivalent of a woman not having sex (and thus not having to ponder abortion; minus rape)
My point is that there is no equivalency. As a man the only part one has an active role in is having sex, we are not those whose body is being changed permanently by a pregnancy. Once the pregnancy has ended, the rights and responsibilities can and should be shared, but during the pregnancy clearly the man isn't really playing a role. And it's not like getting an abortion is a get out of jail free card. A woman also has to potentially deal with the consequences of having sex if she gets pregnant, whether that means becoming a mother or getting an abortion. You can drastically lower the chances of that happening by using birth control, but even that is not a guarantee. You roll the dice enough times, it's going to happen eventually.
??? There most definitely are laws that allow a mother all over the (developed) world to sue for paternity and the man is obliged to provide a DNA sample or face some form of legal consequences like perjury, contempt of court or something to that effect.
My bad, I had read somewhere that it was legal in the US to refuse a paternity test, but I went back and reread and they add that you can refuse, but will open yourself to further legal action (which in my book does not make it exactly legal so that was misleading from them I think, did not read carefully enough!). Still, if you are an only mother struggling to take care of your child you might not have the resources to push a lawsuit. And in some countries those take time. I just think that between the single mother and the father paying child support, the father is not the one picking up the short straw here.
To abort a prospective child just to spite the father takes a psycho, yes. But there are psychos among women. And while still a small minority in the grand scheme of things, there are also women who treat (early = pre-12 weeks) abortion as basically a form of contraception. I know several personally who have had double digits of those, both from my social circles and from my experience as an assistant DA (DAs oversee child and social services in CZ). Tbh knowing these women's life in general, one can't help but wonder if perhaps the children are better off not having been born to them.
Well, sounds like there's probably a lot that is not going great in those women's life. Even early abortion is not as much of a walk in the park as some people think (and at least according to Mayo Clinic you are not supposed to have medical abortion after the first 9, sometimes 7, weeks).
www.mayoclinic.org
I'm left of Sanders when it comes to (American) health care. I'm not anti-abortionist and I share you sentiment that there's a lot of hypocrisy and patting one's back in the American pro-life movement.
Good to know that there is something that we agree on
. Well, that and Dawn of Man being a good game at least. I do think that anyone who has experienced any other type of healthcare would agree that the US healthcare system is messed up. The Italian system is not perfect and you sometimes end up having to wait a lot for some procedures, but I'd rather deal with that than having to risk going bankrupt.
Dude, don't be dismissive. Don't be scared of the actual discussion.
I get it. You seem to imply that it is "moral" to allow a woman a choice while the child is still in her womb and disallow a man a choice once the baby is out.
What's problematic here is that unlike women, there is no point after conception where men have any choice. This is pretty damning.
I'm not buying into your conservative "morals" arguments. It is not self-evident to me that the child's best interests, however important they may be, should allow the stateto trample individual rights and force parents into bearing, raising and providing for it. And it really doesn't when it comes to women. Even if the mom does not go the abortion route, she can just sign the kid off after birth to be adopted if she feels like it and forget about it. So many options here for girls. Almost insulting that you believe irresponsible and loose men do not deserve any sort of leeway here too.
After child birth, the man and the woman have exactly the same responsibilities, as General Kenobi says. The only part where a man does not decide is choosing if the clump of cells will be allowed to become a full fledged child, if we want to continue putting it crudely. And the only reason why a woman gets a say in that is that it involves her body and affects her own well being. If instead of growing in a womb the fetus was put in a jar until it developed to completion (or if we were reptiles and laid fertilized eggs I guess) this wouldn't even be an issue people argue about.
I always end up saying the strangest things in this forum