Feminism
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rektasaurus
Squire
Feminism is good mkay.
But that wasn’t the prompt posed in the OP. It would be silly and pointless for me to call myself a proponent of the women’s liberation movement, a women’s rights activist, or a suffragette although by definition that is what I am... It’d be easier to convince someone on the other side, a necessary step in a democratic process, if a movement is called, for example, “civil rights” vs “coloredism”.
Put feminism and mra under the umbrella of “gender rights” or “gender equality”. I’m a “gender equality activist”. It doesn’t mean losing or betraying the original cause. Anyways a futuristic society which achieves equity and equality will have less of a need for label elitism and so called identity politics.
Unless we’re driven instead by a vengeful, malicious, and primeval urge to punish and make someone alive today suffer for the sins of those long dead and gone. There’s no end in sight to that rabbit hole and it doesn’t stop it from happening again in the future...
But that wasn’t the prompt posed in the OP. It would be silly and pointless for me to call myself a proponent of the women’s liberation movement, a women’s rights activist, or a suffragette although by definition that is what I am... It’d be easier to convince someone on the other side, a necessary step in a democratic process, if a movement is called, for example, “civil rights” vs “coloredism”.
Put feminism and mra under the umbrella of “gender rights” or “gender equality”. I’m a “gender equality activist”. It doesn’t mean losing or betraying the original cause. Anyways a futuristic society which achieves equity and equality will have less of a need for label elitism and so called identity politics.
Unless we’re driven instead by a vengeful, malicious, and primeval urge to punish and make someone alive today suffer for the sins of those long dead and gone. There’s no end in sight to that rabbit hole and it doesn’t stop it from happening again in the future...
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i'm not sure if you've considered this but maybe the scope of the discussion has evolved in the 7 years since then...
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rektasaurus
Squire
I really didn’t. 400 pages man I can only read so many before trying to get back on topic of the post
That being said, his post would then fall under that umbrella. You just don't particularly like what he's saying.
Oh no, I'm not disputing that his post was topical - it is, just that that question isn't the sole purpose of this thread like he seems to believe is all. That said, as far as the matter of the name goes, it does sorta make sense that one might read the earlier conversation about the subject.
The name is supposedly awkward. But who cares? It's been long established; people who are being honest know what feminism stands for and they know when the good name of feminism is being abused. Changing it now would not further the cause. Besides, what would you replace feminism with?
Egalitarianism? Already taken.
Humanism ? Sooorry, reserved by another movement.
If we look at it realistically, renaming feminism because of the perceived inherent discriminatory nature of its name, we'd end up with some long name which would not sound too great. Like I don't know, Gender Equality Movement or something else unimpressive like that.
To me, it looks like options are non-existent, so let us stick with feminism then.
By the way, as a man, I don't feel at all being discriminated against by feminism, feminists and their name. And to me, the name makes sense, women are not on equal footing with men, so naturally, from a feminist P.O.V., we'd be focusing our thoughts and efforts on the situation of women. If your goal is to better the feminine situation, then it makes sense that your movement is called feminist.
Egalitarianism? Already taken.
Humanism ? Sooorry, reserved by another movement.
If we look at it realistically, renaming feminism because of the perceived inherent discriminatory nature of its name, we'd end up with some long name which would not sound too great. Like I don't know, Gender Equality Movement or something else unimpressive like that.
To me, it looks like options are non-existent, so let us stick with feminism then.
By the way, as a man, I don't feel at all being discriminated against by feminism, feminists and their name. And to me, the name makes sense, women are not on equal footing with men, so naturally, from a feminist P.O.V., we'd be focusing our thoughts and efforts on the situation of women. If your goal is to better the feminine situation, then it makes sense that your movement is called feminist.
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That's not how it works. The kids of today won't identify feminism with suffragettes, voting rights, equality or sexual revolution, but with screeching blue-pink haired balloons, because that's the strongest memory they'll have about the word.
rektasaurus
Squire
But then we could all be GEMs! To your point, a thing could be called anything and anyone can pervert its meaning so given enough time names and labels are meaningless. But better names and labels can prevent surface level problems from occurring and not require people to start doing mental backflips to understand what is being said.
This is exactly the problem however. Currently, in an attempt to evolve, there is quite a strong effort to ensure that it is known the feminist movement seeks equal rights for men and women. It can’t be ignored that some may come to the slightly incorrect conclusion you just have. Inherent in its name it is seeking to elevate women to the same position as men and that is a paradigm which is discriminatory. Here is a ted talk where the speaker far more eloquently explains the problems than I can. It’s 15 minutes but I urge anyone to at least quickly skip through it.
Do you actually read what you write?
rektasaurus
Squire
Yes, I do. To think that women are behind men in every possible category is wrong and it’s exactly the right way to ensure people not jumping aboard the equality train.
Please at least consider the ted talk which I linked. The way things are it’s like men and women compete over who is the bigger victim, and both can be right at the same time while remaining at odds, I don’t understand how anyone wouldn’t see a problem with this.
On the one hand I’m the friggen idiot, why would I engage with someone who clearly isn’t making an effort to understand what I’m writing...
Please at least consider the ted talk which I linked. The way things are it’s like men and women compete over who is the bigger victim, and both can be right at the same time while remaining at odds, I don’t understand how anyone wouldn’t see a problem with this.
On the one hand I’m the friggen idiot, why would I engage with someone who clearly isn’t making an effort to understand what I’m writing...
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Sort of. From what I understand, a couple of men in the US have founded such a movement. However, any good intent that came with the founding of it quickly went away to let openly misogynistic men lead the movement. In a way, that movement could be seen as a response to the more radical feminists.
You can learn more here for a general perspective:
Masculism - Wikipedia
Men's rights movement
The men's rights movement (MRM), also known as men's rights activism (MRA), masculism, or "The Men's Human Rights Movement",[2] is a fringe movement which espouses the view that social, legal, and economic discrimination against men is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves...
What makes you think that?
In academic circles 'men's studies' is the male version of women's studies.
As such it's not explicitly political like feminism, but deals with many of the same things.
It's mainly social research, but also about health and psychology (gender, sexuality etc.).
(Meninism sounds retarded - both linguistically, academically and politically).
Researchers on men's studies point out many of the troubles men face in society have been in the shadow (academically) of feminism that early on focussed on women's issues - and improved many things. There's a long list of issues that men face in society, that they deal with.
A typical critique of feminism is the misunderstood notion that it proclaims women's lives in general are worse than men's.
A feminist might point out women's mental issues, and someone will point out how men more often commit suicide (i.e. succeed).
But hopefully down the line most people will see that women's rights is about improving society as a whole.
(Radical feminism can't be avoided, though, and sadly anti-feminists see them as representing feminism in general).
As such it's not explicitly political like feminism, but deals with many of the same things.
It's mainly social research, but also about health and psychology (gender, sexuality etc.).
(Meninism sounds retarded - both linguistically, academically and politically).
Researchers on men's studies point out many of the troubles men face in society have been in the shadow (academically) of feminism that early on focussed on women's issues - and improved many things. There's a long list of issues that men face in society, that they deal with.
Men are
more violent,
more often victims of violent crimes and murder,
more often in jail,
slow to seek a doctor,
more often die from suicide,
more lonely
poorer at handling divorce,
less educated than women (some places. The gender gap in education is slowly reversing)
etc.
And of course focus is also on specific male issues like impotence.
more violent,
more often victims of violent crimes and murder,
more often in jail,
slow to seek a doctor,
more often die from suicide,
more lonely
poorer at handling divorce,
less educated than women (some places. The gender gap in education is slowly reversing)
etc.
And of course focus is also on specific male issues like impotence.
A typical critique of feminism is the misunderstood notion that it proclaims women's lives in general are worse than men's.
A feminist might point out women's mental issues, and someone will point out how men more often commit suicide (i.e. succeed).
But hopefully down the line most people will see that women's rights is about improving society as a whole.
(Radical feminism can't be avoided, though, and sadly anti-feminists see them as representing feminism in general).
rektasaurus
Squire
The fact that these two movements exist in as unhealthy and pathetic a form that they do is the singular and utter failure of gender studies departments everywhere. To think that the phds who come up with the theories we’re currently talking about as well as the people who attempt to utilize them aren’t also fallible is a gigantic mistake.
I don’t believe men are more likely to succeed at suicide, I think they’re more likely to be suicided, e.g. lynched or two to the back of the head. In the ted talk I linked above the speaker describes increased anxiety women feel when facing men and the whole victim-disadvantaged paradigm is a problem that is not only prone to abuse but also can negatively impact mental health.
Anyone who thinks gender relations isn’t a broken house with two ends divorced from each other is deluded or blind and our society is suffering for it.
I don’t believe men are more likely to succeed at suicide, I think they’re more likely to be suicided, e.g. lynched or two to the back of the head. In the ted talk I linked above the speaker describes increased anxiety women feel when facing men and the whole victim-disadvantaged paradigm is a problem that is not only prone to abuse but also can negatively impact mental health.
Anyone who thinks gender relations isn’t a broken house with two ends divorced from each other is deluded or blind and our society is suffering for it.
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Bruh ****ing moment, lmao. You've just shot dead every last ounce of your credibility. That is conspiracy theory grade bull. This is literally one of the first things you learn in gender studies, social issues, or psych. The statistics are as such: Women attempt suicide more often, men attempt suicide less often, but succeed disproportionately, due to the usage of more violent methods of suicide than women.
