Dodes said:
Being a switch i like both Femdom and naughty little school girl.
Feminism
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Being a switch i like both Femdom and naughty little school girl.
Dodes
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lrn 2 readMage246 said:
Of those that want to ban porn, I would assume the majority have a stance that applies to all pornography based on what I've learned of the rhetoric. I'm sure you could find someone and even a sizable amount enough to be noteworthy whom wants to ban all porn but femdom.Weaver said:
Mage246
I did read. If I'm the one initiating, I am therefore also placing her in a subordinate position vis a vis my desires.
Lrn2cmprehend
Lrn2cmprehend
Mrs. Dryvus
Master Knight
Another feminist here who doesn't want porn banned, whether I watched it or not, and whether I found particular types tasteful or not. And I do watch porn. "The Feminism" that is spoken of here--the monolithic beast that is out to humiliate all men, pulling down their pants and laughing at their genitalia--hasn't implanted a chip in my head that gives me my talking points. I've found my own way to social libertarianism.
Persian FemDom Goddess!
Who has done that? The video isn't making any claim about the relative amounts of victimisation. I don't really think that's even relevant.Mrs. Dryvus said:
I think this is pretty unfair. You're taking a legitimate problem faced by men and saying that it is just another example of negative stereotypes about women. Obviously there is a complementary stereotype about men and in this case the effect is harmful to men.
Mage246
Dodes said:
It was a sarcastic remark that was a critique, but not about anything you were advocating. People make comments on a topic that aren't about you. Deal with it.
Mrs. Dryvus
Master Knight
The video was a very good one in that it highlighted the fact that a man being hit by a woman is a subject of ridicule. It's an issue that deserves attention. This issue, however, is often wrongly co-opted by opportunistic MRAs for their package message that holds that there is a shift in power from men to women in the form of educational discrimination, economic discrimination, and now domestic violence. The package message is a load of unsubstantiated horse****.Papa Lazarou said:
My comment is simply an aside targeted to those in this thread and elsewhere who are intellectually dishonest enough to pretend that males are the new downtrodden. It's the same reactionist backlash against the gains in equality for black people and gays; the same claims are being made that white heterosexual men and women are now the target of discrimination and that the pendulum has swung too far the other way; that white heterosexual rights are being encroached upon by the blacks, the gays, the rabid feminazis, the immigrants. The language is virtually the same, whether they are discussing the coming gender war or race wars. It's tiresome, but not really worrisome, because the tide has already turned. So sorry. These fearful, insecure, quite pathetic creatures are in the minority of the new generation. So, I applaud the message of the video, while making an aside to those who will use it to pronounce that male victimization by females even comes close. If we are talking about physical violence by one gender upon another--injury, murder, and rape--it does not come close in frequency or severity. Men are disproportionately the victimizers of both men and women.
It's not at all unfair. I'm not de-legitimizing a problem faced by men or saying that the effect is not harmful to men. I'm saying that the ridicule that a man faces in being beaten down by a woman is a product of gender stereotypes regarding which of the two is the stronger and more dominant. And that this stereotype is incidentally harmful to men. I find it strange that you can't see that. What would those laughing idiots say of that man? They'd likely say that he was a *****. That he was letting himself be beaten by a girl. If it were not for the gender stereotype that women are weak (hence the equivalence of the word for our genitalia with weakness), there would be nothing ridiculous in a man being beaten down by his supposed equal. I can only conclude that you're being deliberately obtuse and pretending not to understand.Papa Lazarou said:
Now, I have to stop procrastinating and get back to my reports. Let the bull**** flow.
I'd prefer to deal with that when it occurs than pre-empt it, but fair enough. As I said before, I'm not convinced it's relevant which group is more downtrodden overall. Assessing the net position of the two groups overall would be extremely difficult and not all that helpful as far as I can imagine.Mrs. Dryvus said:
I think it's a shame that men's issues tend to be framed in terms of sexism against women, even when men are clearly the ones suffering from the sexism. I don't think sex roles are universally advantageous to men and so I don't see why every issue needs to be framed as if they are.
You're again being willfully obtuse.
The average male pornstar in America is 27 pounds lighter than your average regular Joe, and the average female pornstar in America is 49 pounds lighter than your average Jane. I'm pretty sure that 87% of the regular females do not take facials, or that 62% would do anal.
With those facts done with, I personally don't see porn as singularly evil. It has a lot of bad practices, that Internet&piracy has made even worse, but sexual liberation of women is, IMHO, one of the cornerstones of feminism, and there porn does play a major part.
Because the problem would not even exist if women had not been seen as the inferior, weaker, dumber, useless-aside-from-reproduction(and working low paid menial jobs of course)-gender for a long, long time. Mrs D isn't downplaying the seriousness of the topic of the video, or the subject in general - she's pointing out, rightfully, that it's not the fault of feminism that a man being beaten by a woman is seen as a joke, but of the very sexism that feminism combats.
If you cared to browse this thread far enough back, you would find several sexist ******* who acted just the way she described. I'm not at all convinced that that wasn't the ulterior motive for MadocComadrin to post it. He has a tendency to think that it's a zero-sum game and that there can only be one winner.
Pretty much. The hatred towards porn in some feminist circles stems from the fact that most porn reduces a woman to a mere sex object, to be toyed with and tossed aside. Even in femdom, the woman is still a sex object and her "dominance" is a mere illusion. Furthermore, porn perpetuates harmful role models to teenagers, who might falsely assume that porn is all that there is to sex, and that if your sex life isn't as awesome as porn makes it look like, you're doing something wrong. Furthermore, porn actresses do not accurately reflect reality - warning, massive picture, best to open in a separate tab, SFW:Dodes said:
With those facts done with, I personally don't see porn as singularly evil. It has a lot of bad practices, that Internet&piracy has made even worse, but sexual liberation of women is, IMHO, one of the cornerstones of feminism, and there porn does play a major part.
user1324865215
People in general, Americans especially, try to commercialize everything. I don't see porn going away anytime soon, no matter how much noise is made about it.
Mage246
Jhessail said:
What's the difference between amateur porn and commercialized porn? Slap a price tag on it and it's commercialized.
Please be civil.Jhessail said:
I don't understand how that follows. Are you suggesting that the best way to solve mens issues is to talk about them in terms of sexism against women even though men are suffering and there is a sexual stereotype about men involved?
I don't know what others have said but I'm not suggesting it's the fault of feminism. I just don't think framing the issue in terms of sexism against women is necessarily the best approach.
Violence against men is not taken as seriously as violence against women. Is that because women are considered weak, because men are considered expendable, or some mixture? Does anyone know?
Understandable.
While the stereotypes of men and women definitely fed off each other while developing, you don't necessarily erase both by killing off one. There's evidence to support this*, but you really only need to take a quick look at the still existing male stereotypes to see that its true. Feminism has mostly been about bringing females to equality by focusing much more on the female stereotypes. It's really only been recently that some people join feminism for things other than equality for women (I'm thinking of the various males holding I need feminism signs and such as a good example, despite my belief that they shouldn't be using feminism for it, but we've been over the Egalitarianism vs. Feminism debate a thousand times before). All in all, it may not be the fault of feminism that a men being beaten by a woman is considered laughable by some, but it hasn't done anything directly significant to solve the issue either. So seeing everything in feminists glasses isn't the fairest way to consider the issue.Jhessail said:
*On piece of evidence that I find very interesting (rather than definitive) is transvestism (the strict definition that is, which is non-transgender/gender-queer people dressing in clothing intended for the opposite sex for (often sexual) pleasure). The overwhelming amount of transvestites are male (and straight, but that's another discussion entirely), and part of the issue comes from the fact that feminism made it okay for women to dress in male clothing, but the opposite never happened. The source of this information, by the way, is a well seasoned human sexuality professor, so he knows his stuff.
Even more amusing are those incredibly beacons of knowledge and logic that want to ban gay porn as well because it's demeaning to women. You know, because the guy taking it in the arse is made into a woman. Apparently.RabbleKnight said:Wait... feminists want to outlaw porn?
What about WOMEN who LIKE porn?
What are they gonna do?
****ing extremists.
To hell with Swedish nationalists and to hell with their feminists.
I'm starting to be glad our feminists here in Canada are sane.
And masculinity and something, I stopped reading there, no idea what other **** there was.
Swissky
Be a nice Canadian and share!RabbleKnight said:Wait... feminists want to outlaw porn?Wismar said:
What about WOMEN who LIKE porn?
What are they gonna do?
****ing extremists.
To hell with Swedish nationalists and to hell with their feminists.
I'm starting to be glad our feminists here in Canada are sane.
EDIT : Speaking of Swedish feminism. Feministiskt Initiativ (F!) congress in 2005. (As I said before, I don't even think Jhessail would agree with these lunatics)
I hate you, you ****ing man!
You think you know, you think you can,
all about women, all about our lives,
you know nothing so take a ****ing step!
Dude, geezer, ****ing man!
You'd better start running because here you see a woman who hates you so much we'll tear you into pieces!
You think you know, you think you can,
all about women, all about our lives,
you know nothing so take a ****ing step!
Dude, geezer, ****ing man!
You'd better start running because here you see a woman who hates you so much we'll tear you into pieces!
