Alright. Thanks to Orion's gross misinterpretation of my arguments, I will make my stance very clear by presenting them in easy-to-read bullet points:
- Trans people are obviously humans. They just have gender dysphoria. It's such an obvious fact that I didn't feel the need to mention that, but here we are.
- Trans people are just like other people. They don't need to, and shouldn't, make their gender dysphoria their entire identity.
- Trans people should, and already are, just live their lives instead of focusing on their gender dysphoria.
- This method has already been proven effective to make various minority groups (homosexuals, muslims, black people) accepted by groups that originally refused them.
- Gender dysphoria is a real condition that makes trans people suffer, and they need actual, proper research and effective treatments to cope with that condition.
- The LGBT movement is not the same as LGBT people.
- The LGBT movement is chalking the suffering from gender dysphoria to mistreatment from transphobic people, putting attention away from what's truly important.
- The aggressiveness with which the LGBT movement is "promoting" LGBT lifestyles actually makes people hate trans people.
I will also bold some words to make sure the mods don't misinterpret my arguments again.
What is your stance on equal representation of the sexes in areas like politics, religion, finance, and in management positions in society in general, like universities etc.? Are those not valid goals? Along with equal pay for equal work, not being forced to wear specific (religious) clothing and such.
I think that idea is rather outdated and obsolete. As five bucks has pointed out, that goal is pretty much already accomplished in the western world. Right now people should be evaluating the current progress and deal with whatever is still lacking in society. Remaining to insist on equal representation will take your attention away from focusing on the real issues. As it turns out, people aren't absolutely equal, and they don't have to be. It's okay to be different
. Women and men have some differences, but that's not a problem. It's only a problem when someone decides to act badly upon differences
. These are very case-by-case
and thus need proper work to solve, instead of just shoving it up as misogyny etc. There are other factors that need to be looked at, like economic pressure and general lack of moral. That's why I think the feminism movement is outdated and obsolete, at least in the western world.
I had held back on answering this out of courtesy towards you being muted, but given that that's a thing you seem to enjoy I am going to go ahead and answer now: concentration camps were an atrocity and did unspeakable damage, but also utterly failed at changing society, at least in the way that they intended.
Thank you for the courtesy. I really appreciate it. I hope you don't take offense to this as I really couldn't find a better way to put it, but the holocaust did change
the German society during
the period it was happening. The thing is, WW2 was an even bigger event that, with force, changed that society yet again
. You're conveniently leaving out that period during the holocaust to fit your argument, but I know that's not because your intention is bad or anything like that. I will address the reason why along with the following:
@Adorno @Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James
And I don't doubt that there are people who "disagree with the LGBT movement" as you put it (disagree on what? On the right of LGBT people to have a free life? Cause that sure sounds like homophobia/transphobia to me)
Keep in mind that the LGBT movement is not the same as the LGBT people
, and neither is feminism the same as women, or the CCP = the Chinese people. Criticizing the movement or ideology doesn't mean you hate the people.
That is the trap of obsessing over an ideology. It makes you biased and jump to conclusions
when someone disagree with your ideology. It's a dangerous thing. No movement/idea is perfect, and you're bound to find flaws in it, and people who disagree with it. If you're obsessed with your ideology, your line of thinking is no longer on how to improve life. It's about us vs them
, causing outrage and hatred that prevent real discussions and advancement in humanity.
Continuing that, people disagreeing with the LGBT movement
. Remember, the movement
. The act of promoting the LGBT lifestyles, not the people. I can't go into details because it will get me muted again, but you can see the outrage around this movement, from both sides
. People don't like that. DestructoRama brought up a good point about nations. In Indonesia at the very least, we really don't like what we see going on in the US around this subject. We don't want those problems to spread here. We already have other problems to deal with like the economy. Again, no offense intended, but I suggest you to talk more with people from other countries openly and respectfully to hear why they disagree with this movement, because I can't speak my mind freely here.
The Chinese aren't stupid, of course they knew there would be demographic issues down the line. They did it to solve a demographic crisis in the present. They weren't the first country in east asia to implement family limits either, Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore was the first, and a handful of other countries followed suit. It's silly to act as if nobody in the gigantic CPC bureaucracy ever noticed that imposing child limits would cause fewer children.
The Chinese people aren't stupid, yes, but that decision was. Reproduction is such a vital thing in a society, and they were in too much hurry and rush to solve their past population issue, which was also caused by another stupid decision by the way. The rest of the people, including the lower ranking members of the CCP, couldn't resist the atrocities because it's a brutal regime, not because they're stupid. The CCP is very reactionary in making policies, and their various failures are good examples of my point about why you shouldn't rush certain things.
It's the same with the lgbt movement. The reason you have American-style lgbt organizations in basically every country on earth is because they work. "Native" feminist and civil rights movements are slow to act because they work within the culture they came from. There has been an islamic feminist movement for about 200 years that has achieved very little.
I wouldn't say they work. More like they're very persistent. The reason those native movements fail is because they're doing it wrong. They're trying to push a different idea but limit themselves with the existing tradition, instead of trying to understand the tradition and use it in the direction that they want. In Islam for example, you can push for feminism by saying that Islam actually tells men to treat women kindly and respectfully. Many Muslims don't actually know Islam enough to understand these. Religion can be interpreted for good and bad. Teach them the good. If you want an ancient example of this, is how religious myths blended with local myths to ease assimilation. Different religion was a much more radical and sudden change, but people made it work. Granted sometimes it's by war, but the lone priests and monks travelling around did it without fighting.
In case I get muted again or even banned, I'll end this post by saying that I stand corrected. None of the insults and censors thrown at me has convinced me that my ideas are wrong. This treatment only proved my points.