Feminism

[eddiemccandless]

Maybe you haven't seen the fat ones. The martyrs are all photogenic teens.
Just my sexist, and very non-creepy observation based on a fat feminist from Iran I know.

She'd probably smack for this comment, I based this evaluation of my sample of three Iranian ladies who I know. They're not fat, although one is pregnant (and she recently said "I hope people realize I am pregnant and don't think I am just getting fat").

Also, I am getting fat, but that's just the American dream.

 

[Grank]

Maybe you haven't seen the fat ones.

Perhaps he also included the fat ones when he said Persian female beauty. It would fit the spirit of this thread.

 

[Mad Vader]

Perhaps he also included the fat ones when he said Persian female beauty. It would fit the spirit of this thread.

It entirely fits the feminist spirit to love fat women for their big tits.

@eddiemccandless
Since we are competing who knows most Iranian women and are they really fat, let me remind you of the Iranian girlfriend of a dopey musician (Dryvus) who was an ancient TW forum dweller and totally didn't deserve such beauty. She was thicc, but not fat. Which is still fat in urban terms.

 

[Adorno]

* Thread about feminism
* Women in Iran protest against misogyni.
* Men debate their looks.
...

 

[Piconi]

There were a number of protests and revolts in Iran in the past 25 years or so, all failed for the most part of their requests.

Women of Iran were crucial for the islamic revolution as well, when all they and their men wanted is to practice islam freely and abolish the imperial hijab ban, among other things (the Shah spending then absurd amount of money on the 2,500-year celebration of the Persian Empire didn't help).

Then the new regime started taking their freedom away chunk by chunk.

While i do applaud them for their courage (of the 1979 generation as well as of this one), which i find to be order of magnitude greater compared to that of women from surrounding countries (especially south, south-west), these protests seem to have started on, to me, confusing pretenses, which is 'Mahsa Amini being beaten to a coma and eventually death by the morality police.'

However, later hospital images, and especially video reports from the police custody, apparently shows she was indeed NOT beaten, but with a clean face, clothes and a normal walk ,collapsed suddenly.
How she held her face beforhand seems to me like either a "regular" fainting episode or brain aneurism.

隐藏: Video

Protests were largely peacefull up untill Hadis Najafi was shot dead on the spot, for taking off hijab, tying her dyed blonde hair in a ponytail and shouting at the police, after which hell broke loose.
I think THAT was the breaking point, the regime thinking they can put down these protests as well as they did to all previous ones.

The reciprocal violence plus the energy of the crowds seem largely unmatched to the previous protests, thus i hope and think they might succeed this time.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

cut out the creepy neckbeard talk, people.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The reciprocal violence plus the energy of the crowds seem largely unmatched to the previous protests, thus i hope and think they might succeed this time.

Succeed in what? I don't think it's feasible that they'll overthrow the government, and that's unlikely to be what the majority of the (primarily urban middle class) protestors want anyway, and none of the major neighbouring countries would sit idly by a destabilised Iran. I think Iran is comparable to Syria which civilian riots failed to overthrow as well. I don't want to jump the gun but I think regime change from this alone is a pipe dream.

* Thread about feminism
* Women in Iran protest against misogyni.
* Men debate their looks.
...

Yeah, the lack of self awareness and basic decency is kind of astonishing.

 

[Piconi]

that's unlikely to be what the majority of the (primarily urban middle class) protestors want anyway

Protests turned from burning hijabs to riots chanting "death to dictator" in the very first days, so this gives very little free space in assuming what the protesters want.

As with the 1979 revolution, there are some overarching problems now, hijabs and morality police are just a part of their problems.
As i said at the start of my previous post, i remember some of the protests in Iran being shut down over the years, but they were never this vicious, lastex this long and had this many people and that is an indication it has more chances of actually doing something than any of the previous ones.
I wouldn't compare these riots to Syria, because when some minor riots broke out (syrian were very minor compared to Iran's), while the nation has an immediate common enemy it can gather arround, dictators last that bit longer, until the danger has passed.

Iran is not in the state of war with any other country atm, have no immediate danger looming that would help the people rally behind the regime and they have had a hard time convincing the public of who their enemies are and why.

 

[Grank]

[...]her dyed blonde hair[...]I think THAT was the breaking point

Yeah I think so too.

I'm finding an interesting parallel in that the Aceh province in Indonesia also has a morality police, and all it does is make the situation worse. The rest of Indonesia is pretty tame. You still have muslims everywhere and most wear hijab, but some don't. People are generally okay with it. The people who don't wear hijab are still very modest in their fashion, whether they're muslims or not. Because when you're surrounded by modestly-dressed people you would naturally follow it somewhat. People rarely wear skimpy clothing. In Aceh tho, the crackdown forces some people to go to the extreme to oppose the morality police. That's what I dislike about social movements like feminism. They always do outrageous things because they want to achieve results as fast as possible, and for attention. If you want to change a society you need to do it slowly. Have some patience. Don't trigger people. People will like you better if you're graceful. What's ironic is that more women here are dressing more modestly as time goes. Back when I was a kid, most girls didn't wear hijab. Now it's the other way around. Nobody was forcing them to. Social pressure slowly did the work, and better muslim fashion developed as a response. Natural compromise like this is the best. We have women dressed modestly with style, instead of blue haired naked paint or full body ninja burqa.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

[...]her dyed blonde hair[...]I think THAT was the breaking point

Yeah I think so too.

what a bizarrely edited quote. the point is the fact that she was shot, not her hair. i think one of those is a little more "outrageous", to use your word, than the other.

 

[Mad Vader]

Yeah, the lack of self awareness and basic decency is kind of astonishing.

Well, some people are passive aggressive pearl-clutching gwailou.

the point is [...] her hair [...] is a little more "outrageous"

Agreed, blonde hair is too sexy for traditional Muslim society and Iranian basij are predictably overwhelmed by murderous lust when they see it.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

behave

 

[Adorno]

According to Iran Human Rights (situated in Oslo) 201 protesters have been killed (incl. 23 children) since protests broke out.
AP reports demonstrations in 19 Iranian towns on Wednesday.
But it's especially in the western, Kurdish, parts of the country.
Also reports of riot police moving from house to house arresting dozens of young people.
Both men and women, and the protests are generally against the regime.
But there's no regime change in sight. At best the authorities might loosen the strict 'modesty' rules a bit to appease the crowds. (They already overlook minor violations).
Hard to tell what will happen. Iran has had economic problems for many years now, and it's getting worse, like everywhere else (inflation). It usually drives unrest.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Yeah I think so too.

I'm finding an interesting parallel in that the Aceh province in Indonesia also has a morality police, and all it does is make the situation worse. The rest of Indonesia is pretty tame. You still have muslims everywhere and most wear hijab, but some don't. People are generally okay with it. The people who don't wear hijab are still very modest in their fashion, whether they're muslims or not. Because when you're surrounded by modestly-dressed people you would naturally follow it somewhat. People rarely wear skimpy clothing. In Aceh tho, the crackdown forces some people to go to the extreme to oppose the morality police. That's what I dislike about social movements like feminism. They always do outrageous things because they want to achieve results as fast as possible, and for attention. If you want to change a society you need to do it slowly. Have some patience. Don't trigger people. People will like you better if you're graceful. What's ironic is that more women here are dressing more modestly as time goes. Back when I was a kid, most girls didn't wear hijab. Now it's the other way around. Nobody was forcing them to. Social pressure slowly did the work, and better muslim fashion developed as a response. Natural compromise like this is the best. We have women dressed modestly with style, instead of blue haired naked paint or full body ninja burqa.

What's the deal with Aceh? I always just assumed Java was the most Muslim Island, but recently I read about Aceh and it made my head scratch. You have 200 million people in Java who have managed to synthesise anime, heavy metal and berjilbab no problem, but Aceh has religious police like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Especially with smiling jokowi in charge it almost seems nonsensical.

I also heard that in Java people some wannabe imams were complaining about all the Chinese non-muslims wearing hijabs as a kind of fashion, even coupled with skimpy clothing, and the ulema just shrugged and said "good on them, live and let live". I find it baffling how the two main Islands can be so drastically different.

 

[Grank]

Yeah, Vader. Behave or your profile pic will become a reality.

What's the deal with Aceh? I always just assumed Java was the most Muslim Island[...]who have managed to synthesise anime, heavy metal and berjilbab[...]I find it baffling how the two main Islands can be so drastically different.

I can probably safely claim that Indonesia is the most diverse country in the world. We have so many islands, tribes and cultures that there are countless weird cultures if you look hard enough. Aceh is merely one of them, and the reason it's famous is because it aligns with the more famous "savage Muslim extremists" topic. Aceh is also just a single province, not an island. The rest of the Sumatra island is different from Aceh.

Java is the melting pot, because it's where the majority of industry is. People from other islands come to Java to work and study, and thus people are used to accepting differences like anime and heavy metal. The imam situation you mentioned is just a minority too. The majority are chill. As a matter of fact, Islamic extremism is one of the problems threatening Indonesia right now. Arab weebs, you can call it. Aceh is full of them.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Interesting, that makes more sense. I also wrongly assumed that Aceh was most of the island when it's just the tip.

 

[Mad Vader]

just the tip.

隐藏

I can probably safely claim that Indonesia is the most diverse country in the world. We have so many islands, tribes and cultures that there are countless weird cultures if you look hard enough.

Indonesia is the most underrated country in the world. It's 4th biggest by population and pretty high by GDP too, so not everyone there is useless.
It's a showcase how diversity is a strength and a proof that multiculturalism doesn't always have to lead to genocide and separatism. Except in East Timor.

 

[Adorno]

Calm down. Indonesia has some terrible laws and human rights violations.
Notably related to Islamism, such as harsh blasphemy laws and - on topic - child marriage and "viginity tests", as well as harsh sharia laws in some regions. Not to mention discriminatory dress codes in most of the country (like hijab), like in Iran.
Severe corruption, police brutality etc. Anyway, a long discussion. It's a big country and there are "areas" better than others.

 

[Grank]

a proof that multiculturalism doesn't always have to lead to genocide and separatism

If you don't force stuff to others, yeah. Indonesia is also a proof that a muslim population doesn't have to be science-denying savages that stomp on women. Our implementation of Islam is far from perfect, but I dare say it's better than full-blown muslim countries. The women issues Adorno mentioned only happened in areas with Islamic extremists.

Over here, marriage is something that everyone'd assume everyone do eventually. The main concern for girls is health for childbirth. Marrying too young is obviously not good for health, so people avoid that. It's only when people are too desperate that they marry their young kids off. You know to whom those desperate people are "selling" their kids to? The Arab weebs. Normally for girls it's at 22-27 years old. Above that is already considered risky.

As for feminism, the modern movement is not doing well in Indonesia because it already has its own old version of it. We're doing relatively fine. Women here like being housewives (can work too if they want to) and they like their hijabs. No kidding. Wearing a hijab means they don't have to care that much about their hair, and the modest non-tight fashion hide whatever insecurity-inducing features they might have. Of course many don't like hijab, but people won't beat them up for it like in Iran.

 

[Mad Vader]

We're doing relatively fine. Women here like being housewives (can work too if they want to) and they like their hijabs.

Women in the west liked being housewives in the 50s too. Until they figured out they didn't need to and could aspire to more fulfilling roles and a greater variety of roles that are suited to their personal capabilities and motivations.
You are basically saying "women here are backward and fine with it, they don't mind not fulfilling their potential". It's telling that you are fine with it, of course you don't want this to change and can rationalize it as good for them. Your prime concern was whether they are healthy for childbirth, and that's just like discussing breeding of cattle.