Female Relatives Are Worth Less Than Half As Much As Males

[Nodice83]

My partner plays. She is a woman. Which literally undermines that entire statement. You should adjust it to read "no woman I know cares"

Ironically, she prefers to play as male characters and I prefer female characters (last I checked female characters start younger so you can play them for longer). There's a whole gender studies or psychology first year university essay in there for someone.

And at the moment, men should be cheaper in the slave market. There's almost no women to sell. Supply and demand.

Hi,

I didn't say no single woman plays. I said in my opinion no single woman, cares. This is all based on my opinion which i think doesn't need to be backed up with scientific research and i don't think i am the wisest of all so there may be some error in my thinking, no doubt. Still.. didn't change my mind.

Example ? Despite the fact your reasons are clear (economy) - it is you who generally responded not her. I based my statement on the fact that without being summoned - there is no single thread started from - "i am woman i don't like it" - for whatever reason. I didn't make myself clear - but i mainly responded to certain part of comments which tend to be "femist no matter what". You made a valid point of supply and deman which i believe is of no discussion and must agree.

I terms of gender studies I am a big fan of Jordan Peterson essays, lectures and books myself, but if there is something worth reading feel free to cite. I would be more than happy to contradict my thoughts. I also like (wouldn't say i prefer) playing feemale characters for the reasons presented in a couple of posts before.

(Side note: By the way no single woman i know plays, ergo cares... including my partner who generally thinks i am wasting my time playing. So i need to say i envy you... I generally tend to think this might be cultural as my partners viewpoint does not vary to much from other woman i know. It is shifting towards the "woman playing games" side but still very slowly).

Peace !

 

[a_ver_est]

I kind of get what you mean. Honestly I wish marriage actually meant something. For example, in my current playthrough I am an Aserai lord that has two Southern Empire Cities under my control. The roleplayer in my decided marrying Ira, Rhaegea's daughter would make a whole lot of sense since it would cement my ties to the Southern Empire and give me legitimacy in my lordship over two Southern Empire Cities despite being Aserai but from a gameplay perspective, I got nothing but another companion. Further, now Ira has forgotten all loyalty to the Southern Empire and is more than willing to slaughter her family.

Honestly it would be nice to have it actually have meant something to marry her like none of her family members would ever attack my holdings or maybe being able to call members of her clan from the Southern Empire to my person banner when my faction, the Aserai went to war with the Khuzaits or something because marriage was about cementing alliances and getting power, not just another companion.

Fully agree, such kind of details will do the game a masterpiece.

 

[Gadheras]

I kind of get what you mean. Honestly I wish marriage actually meant something. For example, in my current playthrough I am an Aserai lord that has two Southern Empire Cities under my control. The roleplayer in my decided marrying Ira, Rhaegea's daughter would make a whole lot of sense since it would cement my ties to the Southern Empire and give me legitimacy in my lordship over two Southern Empire Cities despite being Aserai but from a gameplay perspective, I got nothing but another companion. Further, now Ira has forgotten all loyalty to the Southern Empire and is more than willing to slaughter her family.

Honestly it would be nice to have it actually have meant something to marry her like none of her family members would ever attack my holdings or maybe being able to call members of her clan from the Southern Empire to my person banner when my faction, the Aserai went to war with the Khuzaits or something because marriage was about cementing alliances and getting power, not just another companion.

Take a game such as CK3, daughters and close female relatives equals alliances. Now, once you die off and your heir take power. All those come back and bite you in the ass and want to overthrow you and take your throne :p

 

[Marbles20]

So back to OPs suggestions...

A much better mechanic would be to either (1) make the relationship gain from marriage extremely valuable (for instance, perhaps make it so that families won't marry off their women to you unless you return the favor) or (2) make it so that in a marriage, who leaves their family is not determined by sex (i.e. maybe you can bargain for who is joining whose family or maybe the more valuable character gets to stay in their family). That way, men and women have a chance of leaving their old family and joining the new one. Personally, I'd prefer the latter case because I think it's much easier to implement and is better for game balance purposes.

I honestly wouldn't mind if the marriage simply brought relations up to +100, gave renown to the husband's clan based on the renown level of the wife's original clan and vice versa (the wife's original clan would get 1.5x the renown bonus). The thing that would be necessary then would be a renown check with the leader of the wife's clan to make sure the husband was up to their standards (ie if man's clan is tier 2 then a tier 4 clan would refuse marriage, so you wouldn't just be marrying a king's daughter right off the street)

That renown check kind of ties into my longer courtship suggestion.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I terms of gender studies I am a big fan of Jordan Peterson essays, lectures and books myself,

 

[Midnitewolf]

The game is too politically correct, there is no need to have so many women with warrior attributes, both noble and wandarer.

I have mixed feelings on this. Overall I don't really mind female characters and I do think a game designed for the mass market should be designed to appeal to everyone within reason anyway.

On the other hand, if half my armies were very noticeably female, (unless I was using an army of Amazons or similar) it would totally break my immersion since I can't even recall any depiction of medieval or ancient warfare in any setting be it historical, fantasy, anime, novel, etc., where the armies weren't mostly made up of men.

It isn't about being sexist either, it is just that I want my game to feel realistic.

That being said, the game is set in ancient times when men dominated the society so I don't think it is wrong for someone, man or woman, to feel that the game should be accurate to its setting. In fact I would said that a female, playing a female character in a male dominant setting and still leading men into battle and becoming a lord or even a Queen, should feel more empowering than being a female character in a setting where woman are equal and/or hold more power than men or at least that would seem logical to me. That being the case, I wouldn't mind if the game was more historical accurate rather than politically correct.

 

[Nodice83]

Yup, i am aware Nobody is perfect.

On the other hand, if half my armies were very noticeably female, (unless I was using an army of Amazons or similar) it would totally break my immersion since I can't even recall any depiction of medieval or ancient warfare in any setting be it historical, fantasy, anime, novel, etc., where the armies weren't mostly made up of men.

Barbaric (by Romans standards) tribes like e.g. Iceni were famous from having Women fight alongside their Men. But most documented records show Norse people having strong equality in terms of fighting in armies. But nonetheless it is considered 'unique' in the history of mankind.

 

[Gadheras]

Barbaric (by Romans standards) tribes like e.g. Iceni were famous from having Women fight alongside their Men. But most documented records show Norse people having strong equality in terms of fighting in armies. But nonetheless it is considered 'unique' in the history of mankind.

Just because you see women fight commonly in shows such as Vikings, doesn't make that historical accurate... That women did pick up weapons and fight when needed to, sure. but that applied in a lot of cultures and races.

 

[Nodice83]

Just because you see women fight commonly in shows such as Vikings, doesn't make that historical accurate... That women did pick up weapons and fight when needed to, sure. but that applied in a lot of cultures and races.

I have not watched this show (i saw the last kingdom an love it though) but i am pretty sure recent findings report burial sites on modern day Normandy, England of heavily armored and well equipped Women inside. Nordic tribes did not form regular armies but their 'expeditions' were some sort of troops after all..

I could elaborate more but my point was not to say you weren't right, showing those as only 'possibly valid' reports of Woman present in regular ancient / middle ages - periods.

 

[Gadheras]

I have not watched this show (i saw the last kingdom an love it though) but i am pretty sure recent findings report burial sites on modern day Normandy, England of heavily armored and well equipped Women inside. Nordic tribes did not form regular armies but their 'expeditions' were some sort of troops after all..

I could elaborate more but my point was not to say you weren't right, showing those as only 'possibly valid' reports of Woman present in regular ancient / middle ages - periods.

I live in the middle of Norway, I'm well versed in my own past culture and Viking ancestry :p

 

[Antaeus]

Irrespective of whether women have fought any time any where, we're in a fantasy world only loosely based on historic precedent... The rules can be changed.

 

[Jaang]

Irrespective of whether women have fought any time any where, we're in a fantasy world only loosely based on historic precedent... The rules can be changed.

Arbitrary rules can be changed, but saying "Dude, Bro, it's like fantasy, man" isn't a magical encantation that lets you handwave away obvious contradictions and inconsistencies.


Every one of the cultures in Bannerlord is plainly and clearly based on historical analogs from the Migration Period in Europe and West Asia, and the in-game dialog and in-game lore clesrly and plainly lays out an in-game series of patriarchal and traditional societies where women warriors sometimes occur but are rare enough to be an oddity and to stand out from the norm.


Having set out that background and that lore... and then having half the field commanders be women is just plain ludicrous.

It's like setting a story in the Old West with six-guns and settlers and Commanche raids, and then putting a Starbucks Cafe with a laptop-charging station next to the Saloon.


No.

 

[Antaeus]

Arbitrary rules can be changed, but saying "Dude, Bro, it's like fantasy, man" isn't a magical encantation that lets you handwave away obvious contradictions and inconsistencies.

Other blather...

Actually, it is a magical incantation. And I just did hand wave away everything you said.

"Abra Cadabra... "

Contradictions gone. Now I have a woman character riding around the field with a 2 meter long glaive severing heads along the way.

Magic is awesome. You can go back to your grumbling now.

 

[Jaang]

Actually, it is

...with a 2 meter long glaive severing heads along the way.

No. You don't.


The metric system was invented in the 1700s in France.


You're in 1084 in Calradia. You've got a six foot long glaive.

 

[black_bulldog]

Ah the gender equality vs realism in a video game. It seems we swing back to this "discussion" about once a month or so and it always goes the same way each time, someone gets mad, someone getting muted or a warning and eventually the thread gets locked.

 

[Nodice83]

Ah the gender equality vs realism in a video game. It seems we swing back to this "discussion" about once a month or so and it always goes the same way each time, someone gets mad, someone getting muted or a warning and eventually the thread gets locked.

And still no single Woman cares

 

[Antaeus]

No. You don't.


The metric system was invented in the 1700s in France.


You're in 1084 in Calradia. You've got a six foot long glaive.

If I'm in 1084 Calradia, my glaive is 7.3 centiyards long.

 

[Gandamula]

Barbaric (by Romans standards) tribes like e.g. Iceni were famous from having Women fight alongside their Men. But most documented records show Norse people having strong equality in terms of fighting in armies. But nonetheless it is considered 'unique' in the history of mankind.

It is complete and totally unhistorical nonsense that half of the armies are commanded by women, it has no basis, except to try to follow the forced trend of gender equality that is not even real today, much less at the time represented in the game.
Using rare facts as common is a current trend that tries to rewrite history today, it is like watching current films or TVs shows portraying the mediaval era where you can place ethnicities that did not even exist in Europe.

 

[Nodice83]

is complete and totally unhistorical nonsense that half of the armies are commanded by women, it has no basis, except to try to follow the forced trend of gender equality that is not even real today, much less at the time represented in the game.
Using rare facts as common is a current trend that tries to rewrite history today, it is like watching current films or TVs shows portraying the mediaval era where you can place ethnicities that did not even exist in Europe.

"But nonetheless it is considered 'unique' in the history of mankind."

@Gandamula How many words did you put toghether from what i wrote ? Reading with understanding is so rare nowadays.

P.S. "Complete and totally unhistorical" - this is so scientific and methodological assumtion, "Half of armies" - Who in the name of God said that ? "TV shows" - don't judge other by your standards. "much less" - which is how much ?

Read the go**amn Wikipedia and see the literature below article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_warfare

It is a good starter. I was amazed by many notifications i wasn't aware. Stop populating thesis you cannot defend with at least one fact documented in a reliable source.

Once for all and i will say that for the last time - i agree Woman in the armies is a RARE fact. And i also believe it makes medieval setting such as Bannerlord a bit unrealistic.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Arbitrary rules can be changed, but saying "Dude, Bro, it's like fantasy, man" isn't a magical encantation that lets you handwave away obvious contradictions and inconsistencies.

Why not? The developers have been using this logic for years. I'm not even being facetious here, despite all the flavour text about how the aserai are historically accurate pre-islamic muslims or whatever, the company's internal "policy", if you can call it that, is to make things closer to generic medieval fantasy than history. This applies to mechanics and aesthetics.