Feinting - pls give

[vonbalt]

Cry, cry, cry, accuse me of crying. **** off plain and frankly. You have no idea what you are talking about, yet you act like you do, so I have to come here to respond. Again, you provide no solution, and tell me to wait. I will wait. But in the meantime, I will respond when you post bad information and ideas.

I'm not part of the discussion and i hope to keep this civil but isn't the "solution" to play the game the way it was intended instead on relying on an animation cancelling bug to be a "pro"? In bannerlord, 4 attack and block directions with kick and shieldbash as special mechanics looks like a good balance already between realism and gameplay. They are quick to learn but take a long time to master, add in multiple players or AI enemies and only a "pro" will be able to master it regardless of that "feinting" bug that wasn't entirely removed, just made slower and looks much better now.

 

[๖Kern]

This discussion will go nowhere if we continue the way we are now. If you feel triggered by the posts, the best thing you can do is to settle your thoughts down and respond in a day or so. Though I don't see a reason to argue anymore, what was need to say was said, it's on TW what they do once it's released.

 

[CaptainLee]

Some real douches in favour of feinting, so I'd be against it's inclusion in Bannerlord even if it curtails their 1337 multiplayer skillset. I guess they'll just have to get good without glitching.

 

[CIIGES of the low lands]

I think a lot of the feints that are effective in duelling are effective partly because the animations break in multiplayer. When people were playing on LAN at Bucharest feintings effectiveness nosedived and people started playing differently.

However I don't think lolfeint type attacks are remotely necessary for a deep and interesting game. I don't use many feints myself but still have tons of moves and attacks I can call on. A lot of misdirection attacks rely on moving the weapon in certain ways too, rather than changing attack direction itself (for instance swinging the sword right as you stab to make it mimic a right swing), these shouldn't be affected as far as I know.

In my opinion they should allow cancelling late into the animation as now in warband, they should however apply a cooldown based on what attack direction you are following up with, if you use the same direction the cooldown is less, switching directions should have a greater cost. The rapid 10X a second feints are a bit much, but feinting is useful for applying pressure on an opponent actively compared to the more passive hold.

So I would say overall yes, cool the feints down a bit and make it so the net code/animations can keep up but don't remove them.

You all got to stop ignoring these posts

 

[SeánC]

Arni: ThePurzelblume1 день назад
That was our first impression too -, especially with heavy armored inf. However, when we talked afterward with someone from TaleWorlds Entertainment - he seemed deeply taken by surprise, cause for him Bannerlords is supposed to have faster fighting than Warband.... But don't forget that we played this at GamesCom, while the footage was recorded... so the setup was not perfect, fps were limited to max. 60 fps. The TW guy said we should send him a detailed Email with our impressions and he will test it, playing Warband and bannerlord side-by-side checking if the swings are faster or not. Still... it is possible that a swing itself is faster, but to me it felt that just the movement and the time between blocking and being ready to hit again... that felt slower, as if u are a dismounted Cav or a nerfed vaegir archer ;D In conclusion - I am very happy that TW is still testing and yet nothing is finally decided about the fight mechanics .

This should shed some light on the matter - nothing is final.

 

[Shakalis]

Just hoping in there, no one probably cares about my opinion but eh.

If the feints are too slow, I'm already seeing people smashing at each others for ages because no one can go through the other's block, what i always enjoyed in warband is the learning curve, at lower levels, you win your fights, at higher levels, you don't win them anymore, you or the other guy lose it, its all about who will do a mistake and die, of course there is a lot of mechanics involved to force the said mistake, and I've always considered feinting to be one of them.

I honestly hope that if they reduce the feints speed to what we have seen, they will add something else to balance it all, else enjoy your never ending duels, but I guess I'll wait and see.

 

[SeánC]

Just hoping in there, no one probably cares about my opinion but eh.

Hey, don't say that you made some nice points. But read the quote above ^

 

[Footbeard]

I don't really know what I trawled through 9 pages of fuss for. Feinting was a high tier mechanic in Warband because animations could be abused. The mechanic hasn't been removed, just toned down so there aren't super jenky looking animations in high level play.

The addition of combo swings, shield bashes, jumps retaining momentum after landing and mightily improved kicks combined with proper spacing will allow for satisfying high level play. I believe once people get the timing down, combo swing feints are going to be pretty dominant. The alternate windup animation when cancelled could add a different level of depth to gameplay without being overwhelmingly spammy.

To wish for the meta to be the same as in Warband is limiting both your vision as a player and the devs vision for a better game. Of course there will be mechanics for skilled players to get an edge over eachother, Taleworlds has just decided that they want to replace super speed feint spam, no big deal

Edit: Grammar

 

[KhergitLancer80]

I dont have 3000-4000 hours in WB but I played mostly in MP and ı played single in 111% difficulty therefore I needed to master combat system a bit.

While it is obvious that nerfing it will contribute some to the realism I dont know if wiping feinting out or just nerfing it or letting it be will contribute a lot to the gameplay.
I saw some suggested that removing it will destroy the games competiveness(too busy to take quote )
I disagree
Aside from the fact that I havent seen anyone in DM, Battle, Siege, Invasion etc. using feints only some in duels,
there are still a lot of things that a decent player has to play hundreds of hours to master in WB multi
For cav mastering killing archers without getting shot with lances or swords. For example I need to charge some good playing archers in an angle that although I am not holding right click my shield can still block the arrows vice versa for the archers they can master using that one moment to headshot the cav.
Or 2 cav trying to kill each other or dismount each other with lances they need to master when to back up and when to go for it.

İnf still has to master block and as I heard now using shields also require some focus if not skill.

There are still some stuff we didnt see in combat for example before this gamescom we didnt know this new lance using type(above the shoulder) there are probably still some stuff that require mastering so lets wait and see what have they done at final work

Edit:spelling

 

[the Ol Knight Heat]

Grim, get off your period. We can wait. The solution is already shown in the videos. Feinting is slower and has more fluid animation. And stop crying.

stop typing nerd

Some real douches in favour of feinting, so I'd be against it's inclusion in Bannerlord even if it curtails their 1337 multiplayer skillset. I guess they'll just have to get good without glitching.

u will always be bad at mab

 

[Harmi]

Aside from the fact that I havent seen anyone in DM, Battle, Siege, Invasion etc. using feints only some in duels,

I've seen that happening in DM very much. But very often they are too busy to feint that you can just single swing to kill them and they don't have time to block, cause they are feinting so much. Happened many times out there.

In duels, the situation is always so different because you are focusing only one enemy and in other servers, you might be surrounded by multiple enemies. So on duel you are feinting of course more. But in other servers, you also need to jump and try to avoid with foot work the axes and spears and stuff that is trying to kill you. It's very funny when you sometimes successfully can beat multiple enemies at the same time.

First, you avoid the first swing which came too early, then you swing back and kill the first enemy and he probably is not aware of that, because he trusts that you have no chance, cause you are alone. Now you need to jump, because his friend is trying to revenge. And because of your jump, his swing goes to the head of the other enemy and now you can kill that one while he is trying to figure out what is going on. Now you have only 1 enemy left and you can kill him by beating him in the duel.

 

[The Bowman]

Grim, get off your period. We can wait. The solution is already shown in the videos. Feinting is slower and has more fluid animation. And stop crying.

stop typing nerd

Some real douches in favour of feinting, so I'd be against it's inclusion in Bannerlord even if it curtails their 1337 multiplayer skillset. I guess they'll just have to get good without glitching.

u will always be bad at mab

That's a nice probation period you have on your shoulders.

 

[CaptainLee]

u will always be bad at mab

Careful Princess, you might hurt my feelings.

I need to set up my own desalinisation plant. I could irrigate the Sahara with all these salty tears.

 

[SeánC]

Careful Princess, you might hurt my feelings.

I need to set up my own desalinisation plant. I could irrigate the Sahara with all these salty tears.

Stop posting here, thanks.

 

[CaptainLee]

Careful Princess, you might hurt my feelings.

I need to set up my own desalinisation plant. I could irrigate the Sahara with all these salty tears.

Stop posting here, thanks.

Get lost. You don't like it? Go to the Steam forums.

 

[Gibby Jr]

Feinting in warband reaches a point where it's fairly useless at the top level anyway. As I see it, it's usefulness is primarily against players who can't counter it, the better your opponents are the more of a waste of time it is. Feinting at the top level is mainly bait. You are trying to bait the other person into spamming it so that they get hit, or trying to make them think you're doing one of your pre-determined feints and then switching it into something else. I have a fairly short roster of feints with really only 2 or 3 of them having any use against top duellists and the rest just being placeholders to bait spam.

Take this duel between me and Peter - https://youtu.be/_Dxlg37XR08

How many times does anyone die to a feint? Once. How many times does spamming a feint kill someone? Three times. Here's a spoiler with all the causes of death:

隐藏

Hold
2

Feint
1

Spam
3

Kick
2

Behind Opponent
1

Fast Stab
1

This is the only feint kill and the cause of death isn't really the feint itself, it's Peter suddenly changing his stylised hold catching me off-guard.

SO WHAT'S MY POINT? Well feinting is cool but it's not the end of the world if it's reduced. It will mean duels will be less skilled and they will take far longer but people will find a way to get kills - holds are already massively undervalued despite being much better than feints on a risk/reward basis so maybe they'll become more prominent. Ultimately feints are only good for killing noobs and baiting spams - at the highest level - so while I will miss my cool inverse feints it's not as big a deal as some people are making out, especially since as we've already seen there are feints already in the game. I didn't see Peter look to the ground and try to do one of his main feints so I don't know if he attempted that or was just looking at the direction switches.

A lot of people here are saying they want the game to be more about movement and timing but that's all top duels are. Feints are already pretty useless for kills but they're totally worthless in warband if you don't use movement to put yourself in the right position. Warband already has movement as the most important part of being a good player. Timing is also just as crucial, since you need to be on the ball to interrupt feints. By removing feints in Bannerlord it will make these things less important and will make duels more about patience. Now a lot of people might like that but those aren't the people who've done hour long first-to-sevens with the existing system; I can't imagine how mind-numbingly boring the game will be if the combat is as slow as in the video. We'll have to see to what extent combat speed can be changed and whether or not they take Peter's advice into account.

 

[Harmi]

A lot of people here are saying they want the game to be more about movement and timing but that's all top duels are. Feints are already pretty useless for kills but they're totally worthless in warband if you don't use movement to put yourself in the right position. Warband already has movement as the most important part of being a good player. Timing is also just as crucial, since you need to be on the ball to interrupt feints. By removing feints in Bannerlord it will make these things less important and will make duels more about patience. Now a lot of people might like that but those aren't the people who've done hour long first-to-sevens with the existing system; I can't imagine how mind-numbingly boring the game will be if the combat is as slow as in the video. We'll have to see to what extent combat speed can be changed and whether or not they take Peter's advice into account.

Now compared to you, here talks a complete noob, but I think the fight mechanism needs to be evolved. I am now talking from the point of view of a designer.

Feints, like they are now, are kind of buggy and scary feature (been said like 100 times here, but it's true), they just need to design something that is not as weird as feints in a way how they are in Warband. They can't make a mistake when they release the game. If someone like PewDiePie or similar big YouTuber test the game and says "the game looks stupid and overall the gaming mechanism sucks because there are so many bugs" it would be the worst situation of Taleworlds. It would possibly be the end of Taleworlds. This kind of small things really matter.

The new generation of M&B series can't just lay on the 100% same mechanism, they need to keep designing it. Kind of adding features and removing the old ones which seem not to be anymore very wise. I know this sounds little bad, but they should make all of us noobs for some time. New heroes will rise and new tactics will be designed when people learn the game. I have some trust in them, that they will design and fine-tune the game until there is something for all of us. Maybe there will be some sort of public beta period where everyone can say their final words. Idk.

 

[Fietta]

I don't really care if feinting has been cut down and I don't think anyone should care too much.

 

[SeánC]

I don't really care if feinting has been cut down and I don't think anyone should care too much.

I think the same about inverse tbh

 

[Silen]

I don't really care if feinting has been cut down and I don't think anyone should care too much.

I think the same about inverse tbh

Well, luckily inverse is still there though.