Feinting - pls give

[Varrak]

I have 1.5k hours and my blocking is leaps and bounds away from "well"

Blocking feints? Are you talking about blocking basic attacks? I mean of course it also depends person's himself and his understanding and connection with the game style, maybe some people get used to the game in first 3 days, maybe some people in 50 days. Just, i pretty much think that 200 hours of multiplayer experience would be far way enough to get well in blocking and counter attack. I am not saying best of course, but it is highly possible.

About feinting, i have big hopes in Bannerlord. We possibly won't face with that thing being called as "feinting" in warband, which is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Grey_Warden]

An inexperienced player has no chance of beating an expert no matter the tactics he's using

Do you accept 200 hours of MP experience as "inexperienced player"? Nearly 20 mornings of playing there, which is pretty much enough to get well in blocking and counter attack feature.

Absolutely, 200 hours maybe enough to get the basics of blocking down, but it won't allow you to block the techniques that are created specifically to get around that level of blocking. Like feinting, but not only that, the expert in question has 4k hours for a reason. He'll nimbly combine feints with tons of other techniques to put enormous amounts of pressure on the somewhat decent, but still not rock solid blocking of the inexperienced player and will mercilessly avail himself of each and every small mistake the inexperienced player makes. And since 200 hours is hardly enough to get blocking alone to a decent level (at least in my opinion), the inexperienced player will also be inferior in terms of offense, which will get him overwhelmed in no time at all, so there'll be double the pressure that is already there looming over him. The pressure will be not only in terms of there being a lot of stuff going on around the inexperienced player, but also in terms of psychology, since at 200 hours the player hasn't done even 1\10th of duelling the experienced player has and is, therefore, more liable to get emotionally unstable due to worrying about the outcome, though I suppose the last part maybe irrelevant depending on the individual. There are more things that favour the experienced player, but this is already plenty for the inexperienced players' prospects of winning to become little to none. It's not that a player with 200 hours is bad, no, he'll destroy any player who only learnt how to fight in SP, but a player with 4000 hours is just superior at basically everything.

 

[aekilju]

We must have different definitions

I think that is an issue throughout this entire thread.

 

[Varrak]

Absolutely, 200 hours maybe enough to get the basics of blocking down, but it won't allow you to block the techniques that are created specifically to get around that level of blocking. Like feinting, but not only that, the expert in question has 4k hours for a reason. He'll nimbly combine feints with tons of other techniques to put enormous amounts of pressure

That is true, i really meant that "i agree with you" when i say that chance is a very small factor and being well enough to get basics of blocking won't be enough when enemy comes to him with feinting (i don't like to call it feinting in warband btw, just wanted to mention again. I want to see feinting in Bannerlord, but clearly not that thing in warband) and other fighting mechanics where he learned from others (or even he developed new things by himself) against that person, and it simply won't enough for that person to win. We don't disagree on this.

 

[Grey_Warden]

Absolutely, 200 hours maybe enough to get the basics of blocking down, but it won't allow you to block the techniques that are created specifically to get around that level of blocking. Like feinting, but not only that, the expert in question has 4k hours for a reason. He'll nimbly combine feints with tons of other techniques to put enormous amounts of pressure

That is true, i really meant that "i agree with you" when i say that chance is a very small factor and being well enough to get basics of blocking won't be enough when enemy comes to him with feinting (i don't like to call it feinting in warband btw, just wanted to mention again. I want to see feinting in Bannerlord, but clearly not that thing in warband) and other fighting mechanics where he learned from others (or even he developed new things by himself) against that person, and it simply won't enough for that person to win. We don't disagree on this.

Well, at least we agree on something, right?
Feints in Warband however, I wholeheartedly support and hold the same belief as Kern, that they were a lucky coincidence that has to stay. It may look really crappy in terms of visual appeal (no arguing here yet again) and is somewhat unapproachable to a newer player, but when you wrap your head around it, it becomes an extremely profound mechanic that can be countered in many ways and is therefore not broken but is very useful still. Exactly what a competitive game needs. If you can make it look good AND keep it as demanding in terms of skill (both on the receiving and delivering part), then I'll only applaud the change. However, if it stays the same as it was shown in the Bannerlord gameplay then I and many others who enjoyed the previous system for what it was will have some things to say about it. I guess we'll see then how it goes then. Thanks for the fun debate everyone x)

 

[578]

I dont really understand the reason why we use the 'top' players as examples here, there are countless unknown talents spread across many servers and different mods. I also laugh at those who suggest that many of us have no MP experience simply because we do not turn a blind eye to a totally non-intentional and stupid looking mechanic like Warband's feint. If you honestly believe that feinting in warband looked or played good then I think you simply have grown to using it too much, which is fine since its in the game, but that does not make it a proper mechanic. I have 1400 hours in Warband and about 1000 of them are in multiplayer. I never moaned about better players killing me by using feints because as said 1) its in the game, I can use it too and 2) There will always be someone better or he will be better under certain circumstances. I do not see a reason to turn a blind eye to something that clearly was not meant to work like that. What's next, we're going to glorify the totally retarded looking left head-to-toes swing that looks like you aim and hit at the ground?  I also respect the competitive community because they are a very big entertainment aspect for me, I watch streams and like certain players that I have watched and learn but warband is warband, bannerlord needs to have fleshed out mechanics that work. As I have also said, the video shown features the player using a heavily armored character. And he does feint, but the armor makes him slower. Which is a good advantage/disadvantage tradeoff. Wait untill we see a lightly/medium armored character do it. I bet it will look much closer to warband.

 

[Harmi]

If the fighting in Bannerlord will look like this. then.. I don't know. Maybe it's my time to find some other game.

 

[Silen]

I dont really understand the reason why we use the 'top' players as examples here, there are countless unknown talents spread across many servers and different mods. I also laugh at those who suggest that many of us have no MP experience simply because we do not turn a blind eye to a totally non-intentional and stupid looking mechanic like Warband's feint. If you honestly believe that feinting in warband looked or played good then I think you simply have grown to using it too much, which is fine since its in the game, but that does not make it a proper mechanic. I have 1400 hours in Warband and about 1000 of them are in multiplayer. I never moaned about better players killing me by using feints because as said 1) its in the game, I can use it too and 2) There will always be someone better or he will be better under certain circumstances. I do not see a reason to turn a blind eye to something that clearly was not meant to work like that. What's next, we're going to glorify the totally retarded looking left head-to-toes swing that looks like you aim and hit at the ground?  I also respect the competitive community because they are a very big entertainment aspect for me, I watch streams and like certain players that I have watched and learn but warband is warband, bannerlord needs to have fleshed out mechanics that work. As I have also said, the video shown features the player using a heavily armored character. And he does feint, but the armor makes him slower. Which is a good advantage/disadvantage tradeoff. Wait untill we see a lightly/medium armored character do it. I bet it will look much closer to warband.

Pretty similiar experience. 3850 hours, most of them in multiplayer, I can use feints as well but I dislike them because they are an exploited bug in my opinion, which looks extremely dumb, and I don't want it in Bannerlord. I'm not against normal feints, they were used historically as well, just not the stupid looking ones which are incredibly fast and make no sense.

 

[Varrak]

If the fighting in Bannerlord will look like this. then.. I don't know. Maybe it's my time to find some other game.

What are your thoughts about these?

隐藏

隐藏

 

[grimsight]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

 

[Harmi]

If the fighting in Bannerlord will look like this. then.. I don't know. Maybe it's my time to find some other game.

What are your thoughts about these?

隐藏

隐藏

Fighting in M&B has never been very realistic and will not be that even in Bannerlord, but I think I can live with it if they don't let that go completely out of hands like in Warband. What comes on those gifs, I can sense that new bugs will be revealed and people will start using them to "feint".

 

[Silen]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

 

[grimsight]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

You simply demand a dumbing down of existing mechanics and then postulate that there must be a better solution. Yet you will never be the one to provide that solution. Very helpful opinion

 

[Reapy]

If the fighting in Bannerlord will look like this. then.. I don't know. Maybe it's my time to find some other game.

What are your thoughts about these?

隐藏

隐藏

Yeah that is exactly fine imho. The result though is easily defended by most 'good' players and they will start to feel hamstrung with no way of pressing advantage.  This is the great question to be answered, right now the only supplied answer is 'combo slashes' and I don't think that's going to do it alone.  I do however strongly agree that the video Harmi linked also needs to be gone as well.

At least consider that originally we got a good 2 years out of warband multiplayer before we started seeing those insane feints. Problem being that the technique now exists and the skill level /understanding of mechanics are well beyond at release.

 

[578]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

You simply demand a dumbing down of existing mechanics and then postulate that there must be a better solution. Yet you will never be the one to provide that solution. Very helpful opinion

Stop talking **** already, feinting as it is in warband is not a mechanic. Its an animation cancelling sequence that mixes 2 other mechanics, attacking and blocking. Its not even fluid or fleshed out. And yes it looks ****ing dumb.

 

[Silen]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

You simply demand a dumbing down of existing mechanics and then postulate that there must be a better solution. Yet you will never be the one to provide that solution. Very helpful opinion

First of all, I don't demand anything. I ask that a bug, which is what it is, is fixed.
Apart from that, we're talking of a game that we haven't even played yet. Once a testing phase happens, we can verify whether the current system works well without spamfeint bugs already, or not. And in case we do need a way to confuse the enemy more, I'm certain everyone will start suggesting a lot of ideas on how to implement that.

Wait untill we can get our hands on the game, before crying about the lack of a bug. For each problem there is a solution, and if there is a lack of ways to confuse the opponent, the community, or the developers themselves, will come up with a solution. I will be happy to throw ideas as well, once I tested the game.

 

[grimsight]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

You simply demand a dumbing down of existing mechanics and then postulate that there must be a better solution. Yet you will never be the one to provide that solution. Very helpful opinion

First of all, I don't demand anything. I ask that a bug, which is what it is, is fixed.
Apart from that, we're talking of a game that we haven't even played yet. Once a testing phase happens, we can verify whether the current system works well without spamfeint bugs already, or not. And in case we do need a way to confuse the enemy more, I'm certain everyone will start suggesting a lot of ideas on how to implement that.

Wait untill we can get our hands on the game, before crying about the lack of a bug. For each problem there is a solution, and if there is a lack of ways to confuse the opponent, the community, or the developers themselves, will come up with a solution. I will be happy to throw ideas as well, once I tested the game.

Cry, cry, cry, accuse me of crying. **** off plain and frankly. You have no idea what you are talking about, yet you act like you do, so I have to come here to respond. Again, you provide no solution, and tell me to wait. I will wait. But in the meantime, I will respond when you post bad information and ideas.

 

[Silen]

Cry, cry, cry, accuse me of crying. **** off plain and frankly. You have no idea what you are talking about, yet you act like you do, so I have to come here to respond. Again, you provide no solution, and tell me to wait. I will wait. But in the meantime, I will respond when you post bad information and ideas.

I think you're getting a bit too altered over a mere discussion, however feel free to do so.

 

[HUMMAN]

It's so easy to solve: make feinting an option in servers. After a period it will be obvious if it is competitive in bannerlord or not.

 

[578]

I'm want to pull my hair out reading you guys. If your main reason for disliking feints includes the words "LOOKS DUMB", your opinion holds no weight in my eyes. You have no respect for the gameplay implications of what you are asking for.

There can be another properly animated way to confuse the enemy, and that possibly looks human to resemble what are human characters, and stand up to a standard quality level for this time, instead of having characters move unnaturally and yes, in a dumb way, just for the same purpose.

You simply demand a dumbing down of existing mechanics and then postulate that there must be a better solution. Yet you will never be the one to provide that solution. Very helpful opinion

First of all, I don't demand anything. I ask that a bug, which is what it is, is fixed.
Apart from that, we're talking of a game that we haven't even played yet. Once a testing phase happens, we can verify whether the current system works well without spamfeint bugs already, or not. And in case we do need a way to confuse the enemy more, I'm certain everyone will start suggesting a lot of ideas on how to implement that.

Wait untill we can get our hands on the game, before crying about the lack of a bug. For each problem there is a solution, and if there is a lack of ways to confuse the opponent, the community, or the developers themselves, will come up with a solution. I will be happy to throw ideas as well, once I tested the game.

Cry, cry, cry, accuse me of crying. **** off plain and frankly. You have no idea what you are talking about, yet you act like you do, so I have to come here to respond. Again, you provide no solution, and tell me to wait. I will wait. But in the meantime, I will respond when you post bad information and ideas.

Grim, get off your period. We can wait. The solution is already shown in the videos. Feinting is slower and has more fluid animation. And stop crying.