Feinting - pls give

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I don't think warband's feints were particularly intentional, they were just a "happy accident" - Bob Ross

If implemented in Bannerlord, I would certainly hope they make actual animation corrections for feints. Looking at how they did chain attacks, I'm sure they're capable of making a functional and well animated feinting mechanic.

More importantly, if we really want Bannerlord to reach any degree of being a spectator sport, the combat does need to be more visually appealing. Visually, warband's feints really are repugnant, especially anything mixed with stab feints. 
 
hëat said:
that was the most ridiculous garbag ive ever seen good riddance

The implemention of feinting was wrong in Warband, that doesn't mean feinting would be bad in any form in Bannerlord. They could just implement it in a different way.. I don't know how that could be done very well, but i agree it sometimes seems ridiculous in warband  :mrgreen: It doesnt mean it is bad. They could put one limit for fienting, or maybe they could slow down the animation after fienting number increased. There would be different solutions to implement it in a good way.

Yeah, warband's one isn't the best one.
 
For one it needs to do less damage if your constantly change swing directions and not able to put much power into your strike vs a held down single direction strike, and slow the motions of rapid swing changes to prevent impossible swing changes like the above video where the player was forced to basically hold block, it doesn't make for exciting gameplay to watch a spasming player in front of you while you hold down lmb. It doesn't need to go entirely, but it can be changed.
 
It seems slower, not completely removed. Which makes sence because feint spam was a cancer in warband, especially against very low ping players.
 
For those of you who know who i am, im sure ive *****ed at no end how much bull**** i think there is in warband with some of the ridiculous lolfeints and such, and i do stand by those opinions. Im more of an advocate for fights relying more on the seizing of openings your opponent makes, spacing, timing and trying to throw them off their game with misdirection. Ive always wanted the brute force method of throwing out 6 feints in half a second to be gone. Despite the fact it may take more "Skill" to do it, and i know an awfully large percentage of this game aspires to play that way, it really feels like a cancer on warband.

So if its getting toned down in bannerlord, yeah - im pretty happy about it.
But no, feinting shouldnt be removed, and i do think the janky-ness of warband is an important part of what makes it so enjoyable. Im sure many of you have experienced what i like to called elastic swings - where someone presses a bunch of buttons and their character kind of stalls, then you find out your dead and *then* they swing. I dont know if its a ping issue, or a server side thing or whatever - but smoothing out and slowing down the animations a little might fix that kind of ****.

But still, feinting shouldnt go away. Hell, implement unique animations for it if someone throws out 6 feints in half a second, but they have to stay.

M&B Has always been the game where i could go into someone, and know what i should have done to come out of top. Everything can be countered, everything can be stopped. You face up against 10 guys? Yeah, you are probably ****ed - but it still feels possible to win. Even if you know *you* cant do it, it still feels like if you could just practice it a little bit more, you would be able to.

I love that about this game, and yeah, however much i hate alot of the bull**** in warband, it still has to stay.

Im have faith in taleworlds to know what makes this game good, what everyone has loved about it all these years - theres no way they cant realise that, right?

Also, if we could get some more attention paid to how animations look in first person and get less like - hands blocking your face and stuff. Makes it a **** nightmare to use polearms and two handers. Also those bow animations felt like they kept clipping horribly into the camera. Tweak them a little Taleworlds. I know not many people use it, but its been my life for almost 8 years now.

EDIT: I would much rather have all the flaws and jankiness of warband stay, than a more "improved" and streamlined experience in Bannerlord. Even if i hate them, they are a part of this game.
 
I hope they will keep the feinting in bannerlored but as i saw in the video it seemes unachievable to feint :???:
 
grimsight said:
Pros of removing feinting: Letting some new player role play as Braveheart a little bit easier. Or am I missing some amazing gameplay implication?

They can just learn, in a month with enough practice you learn to block and feint. Those two are almost the basics and you are done to face an skilled player.
 
So instead of fixing feinting animations, they decided to completely remove it. :facepalm: . And it was not the feinting that caused unrealistic attack animations as much as it was the possibility to attack from unnatural spinebreaking angles.
 
Looter said:
For one it needs to do less damage if your constantly change swing directions and not able to put much power into your strike vs a held down single direction strike
Warband has exactly that already. You inflict bonus damage on swings that are held, and this bonus increases quickly to a maximum and then decreases to a point between an un-held attack and an optimal held attack.

Ron Burgundy said:
If there were actual animations for transitions between strikes it would look clean and feel more real while still having a decent skill cap. This would likely slow down the speed of feints a bit, but if the time to attack/block is properly paired I think it would work well. The chaining attacks look like an effort in this direction, though they aren't quite the same.
Bingo. The sacrifice for making it look better is to make it slower, but if the speed of other things like blocking are adjusted then it will feel natural and remain a meaningful skill mechanic.
 
ZeroxTheGrim said:
So instead of fixing feinting animations, they decided to completely remove it. :facepalm: . And it was not the feinting that caused unrealistic attack animations as much as it was the possibility to attack from unnatural spinebreaking angles.
Exactly!
 
Last night i saw DanAngleland's post

DanAngleland said:
If you look at the video, at the time they talk about it (8:27), he is feinting.
and watched the video again. He is right.

Feinting still does exist in Bannerlord and did not removed. It seems like they made it slower and now it doesnt seem ridiculous as before. I pretty much like the feinting in Bannerlord.
 
SeánC said:
grimsight said:
can I get a source where they say no feinting?
My apologies: https://youtu.be/9kcwGFWTxpc?t=8m25s

Honestly it doesn't look that far removed from Warband, he's still cancelling animations and able to switch direction after a swing. We have no idea about the combat speed of the server or the infantry stats of the characters, or if these even work the same in Bannerlord (perhaps there are other variables). Remember also this was likely played on LAN rather than on a server like Warband usually is - Bucharest felt very different for everyone.

Having the ability to cancel animations is the basics of feinting, everything else is just a balance of speed and clarity and so easily changed via server settings or mods. Don't see the need for doom and gloom.
 
Also if you keep watching their footage, if you see them talking about doing the '360' attack, what we're actually seeing are animation transitions from blocks / swings into other swings. In their case i think it was doing something like an overhead into a left block/attack. I'll admit the shoulders and arm bent really unnatural. 

Anyway about 1 week of testing with good players will let us know if their feinting is too slow and/or there isn't an opportunity to break defensive players. We don't really know much about shield bash/kicking and how offensive or not it is yet.

I'm not really worried, for anyone who did the beta they were not afraid to endlessly adjust stats and mechanics as needed each patch, they simply ran out of time and stopped where they were is the reason it was left as is because it was good enough.

Here is the timestamp for that, it's the footage in the upper left.
https://youtu.be/9kcwGFWTxpc?t=10m28s

Actually that might be the combo system in place. Was overhead, left swing, left swing. The second left swing added a "smooth" motion from one to the next. It was a bit awkward looking honestly.

13:45ish has feinting also.

15:45 for the '360' it appears as though that movement is the signal to start a combo after a hit.  I don't know why adding extra initiative after you land a hit helps unless there is some downside to having your combo blocked/chambered so there is some risk to it.
 
https://youtu.be/9kcwGFWTxpc?t=13m45s
There is something that resembles feinting you're right.

And I think what the "360" thing you're talking about is when you're swinging a heavy weapon around you want to keep up the momentum of the weapon because suddenly stopping the weapon would wreck your wrists. You do make a couple of good points though.
 
I'm for feinting as long as it has fluid transitions and is understandable for the opponent in cause. The problem with Warband is that ridiculous feints are achieved by exploiting the non-animated actions the player makes, an thus quickly becomes an annoyance during a fight.

Even if Bannerlord happens to be exploitable in this area, you don't need to forget that we now have shield bashing as a standard game mechanic, which can essentially become a natural counter to feinters. While kicking takes too long and renders you exposed, a bash&slash approach might be the new way of dealing with the phenomenon.
 
This image shows the value of fainting. :smile:

 
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Tssssk Guys see the video until the end you can see that in the penultimate round when the guys plays a two handed agile class feinting is still possible
 
Can an experienced player see themselves being fooled by the feints at 13:45? Doubt Peter was actually trying to feint fast, but regardless if that is the speed limit, it will be a useless mechanic
 
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