Feint spam survival tips for beginners

[battanianbard]

Ah well said other than the fact that it is complete bull**** though. You can get counter-kicked, can't block down with a weapon and cannot block at all with a shield. #REMOVEKICKS

Ah yeah, sorry, to be clear I am talking only about fighting without a shield. And you're absolutely right about thrusts. I just edited my video to reflect that. Still, against axes, hammers, rhompaias and other swing-only weapons, it seems to me you can almost kick with impunity, so I get the hate lol #removekicks

I've never been counter kicked, to my knowledge... would that involve dodging my kick, then kicking me (obviously, I guess, because you can't beat me to the kick on reaction time alone if I start first)?

Even with a proper understanding of bashing, there is not much added value to using it (except that it might annoy some players who will then play more reckless)

I agree up to a point; it's better to be a good blocker. Still, bashing is sometimes useful as a space-maker (which, as has been mentioned, is an important part of countering feinters at a higher level), and definitely valuable in a group-fight situation.

 

[Einarcf]

Counter kicking has become pretty viable now

 

[battanianbard]

Counter kicking has become pretty viable now

teach me, mighty warrior!

 

[Sigaretovic]

This is devolving into some sort of pissing contest.

Here's my observation : battanianbard has tried to teach other players what he knows. It's obviously not what everyone agrees is best. Other methods that have come forward have been explained to be some along the lines of:
-get good
-git gud
-just swang

My conclusion is that battanianbard has encountered some people (not all but mostly) who have been having a bad day for a long time. Maybe instead of giving him ****, they could make a video demonstrating how its done, complete with explanation and the works.

 

[[OSOD] Imperator]

This is devolving into some sort of pissing contest.

Here's my observation : battanianbard has tried to teach other players what he knows. It's obviously not what everyone agrees is best. Other methods that have come forward have been explained to be some along the lines of:
-get good
-git gud
-just swang

My conclusion is that battanianbard has encountered some people (not all but mostly) who have been having a bad day for a long time. Maybe instead of giving him ****, they could make a video demonstrating how its done, complete with explanation and the works.

Well said

 

[Gibkiy_Rafik]

This video is great, I learned something and I had fun, I think it's enough. And this would be really useful for me when I started playing, because I had to discover most of that mechanics by myself through a decent number of ragequits.
This content was obviously made for new and average players, not skirmish 10000k hours sweats.

 

[Horatius]

#removekicks

.... It was a joke, kicks are very much a necessity in the game. Otherwise 1v1s will be endless if both players can properly block, kicks are a great way to quickly deal with someone. It's fairly risky, especially with a shield.
Standing still if you miss your kick is worse than you make it out to be.

They could maybe get some kind of adjustment though, as currently I find the combat getting a bit boring as kicks are becoming a necessity so it turns into a kick game.

 

[battanianbard]

.... It was a joke, kicks are very much a necessity in the game. Otherwise 1v1s will be endless if both players can properly block, kicks are a great way to quickly deal with someone. It's fairly risky, especially with a shield.
Standing still if you miss your kick is worse than you make it out to be.

They could maybe get some kind of adjustment though, as currently I find the combat getting a bit boring as kicks are becoming a necessity so it turns into a kick game.

...and I laughed! I'm not actually hoping they remove the technique I just made a video recommending...

I don't mean to downplay the risks of standing still after a miss, either. Just saying it's the only way you're really exposed against swing weapons.
How would you change kicks? I'm genuinely interested if you want to humour me, but maybe that's for another thread

 

[Dextrus]

teach me, mighty warrior!

Don’t ask Einar. He will only teach you to run away and draw your bow!!!

 

[FearSpear]

Kicking doesn't expose you to anything, other than to glue you to the spot for a split second. Advanced technique = pressing E and maintaining all block options?

In regards to turn-blocking, the muscle memory is very close to what you use for proper blocking—a slight turn in the direction of the incoming attack.

If you don't know how kicking exposes you, you shouldn't be kicking. It opens you up for both an attack and a counter kick. Your second point is nonsense, you are describing different inputs. If turn blocking is ingrained as muscle memory, and then you also try to opposite side block the swing coming toward you, you are going to get hit as now you have turned into the swing. It's two completely different inputs which are mutually exclusive if you want to block an attack.

It's obviously not what everyone agrees is best

This entire thread is about 10 experienced players trying to explain the same points of why these are not good tips to two noobs. If you look at the points stated by most of the players here, we all are pointing out the same issues with each tip, yet in different words. There is not much disagreement here, as there is not much animosity, we are just pointing out the reality of the issue which is that these tips are greatly flawed, and counterintuitive to learning how to play properly at a high skill level.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Wanna know the ultimate feint and how to dodge all attacks?
Que up for some multiplayer but then exit out and don't ?
ultimate feint, all attacks avoided

 

[battanianbard]

If you don't know how kicking exposes you, you shouldn't be kicking. It opens you up for both an attack and a counter kick.

Kicking against swinging weapons doesn't expose you to an attack (you can block left, right and up without a shield), and you can often land the kick faster than a thrusting weapon, even when the thrust started first. This is featured in the video, and I think it's worth talking about in the thrust thread too, 'cause damn they're slow.

The counter kick still hasn't been explained to me so I'm working off the idea that it involves dodging the kick and then kicking yourself?

Search yields nothing.

You do come off pretty hostile. And if you don't see that then... "Sad!"

And of course turn blocking and blocking are mutually exclusive in the moment you commit to either. But you can switch block inputs while turning just fine. And getting newbs to start turning into defense isn't a bad thing in my eyes. Suppose I am blocking left and you attack my right side. I can either turn block, moving my mouse to the right, or I can standard block, drop my guard and... move my mouse to the right... this time while pressing RMB. You don't see the potential carryover?

But let's just agree to disagree. Your way is best okay?

 

[Krisee]

teach me, mighty warrior!

Kicking against swinging weapons doesn't expose automatically you to an attack (you can block left, right and up without a shield), and you can often land the kick faster than a thrusting weapon, even when the thrust started first. This is featured in the video, and I think it's worth talking about in the thrust thread too, 'cause damn they're slow.

The counter kick still hasn't been explained to me so I'm working off the idea that it involves dodging the kick and then kicking yourself?

Search yields nothing.

You do come off pretty hostile. And if you don't see that then... "Sad!"

press E after opponent misses kick.

 

[battanianbard]

press E after opponent misses kick.

Thanks. So in this situation the opponent has bailed on the feint spam to dodge and kick me. I don't really see that as reason enough to stop my kick katas.

 

[FearSpear]

"Sad!"

 

[battanianbard]

Hahaha.

"How do I swim?"

"Git gud!!!!!!"

 

[Sikkimoto]

1. Turn blocking is not only good 1v1. I use it in group fights throughout the video. It also doesn't really **** footwork—it actually works better with footwork, since you can control the strike angle and you're not at all prevented from moving.

2. Bashing isn't useless, but I guess we can agree to disagree? It's a situational tool that's saved my noob ass against plenty of better feinters, and it's "easier" than changing block direction for beginners, who suck at blocking, because you just have to hit E with your bad block up, instead of getting the right inputs under stress...

3. Everything you suggested — feint spamming, controlling distance, and working on blocking — needs training to be properly done. I don't think that invalidates kicking. I also don't think it's too much to ask beginners to hit E occasionally, especially when it doesn't disrupt your blocks at all... why not start training this early on? You won't unless you know that it exists, and that it doesn't eliminate your block.

Above all, I think you're mistaking these beginner tips/additions as substitutions for the three advanced tips you shared—spamming feints, controlling distance, and getting very comfortable with blocking, all of which take quite a lot of time to develop.

Just for clarification:

1. I didnt say turnblock was any good in a 1vs1 situation. I meant turnblocks can be helpfull when fighting multiple opponents. What you call "footwork" is in fact the absence of footwork. What you really want after blocking your opponents attack is to counter attack. You can't counter attack when you look at way from your opponent. Sure, you can turn your swing towards him, but these are very obvious attacks and easy to block. You need your footwork for more important tasks: Outranging and outcircling enemies, dodge attacks and kicks, provoke enemy teamhits.

2. Maybe "useless" is too harsh. You might benefit using bashing to some degree. You just would benefit more if you improved your blocking skill.

3. I didn't suggest feint spam. I said spam. Spamming means to break up the attack-block-attack-block exchange. When you see an opponentent feinting before every attack just attack-attack instead of preparing to block. Spam is very succesfull when you improve your speed and footwork. You can spam inexperienced players to death without having to block a single time. This is why everyone and their mother tells you to work on footwork and spam instead.

Most feinters do their feint patterns absolutly blind. Especially those you will encounter in tdm or siege. You overestimate their power. Feinter does not equal experienced player. In fact many noobs overfeint. These ppl you are trying to beat with your creative methods are just 1 or 2 steps ahead of you in a very steep learning curve.
There are ofc feinters who don't feint blind. But these are rare unicorns. You don't need to work on strategies how to beat those bc you won't succeed anyway.

You said learning to block would take quite a long time to develop. This is a misconception. You don't just "learn" blocking once. You keep learning and keep improving as long as you play M&B. And you don't need to be an expert in blocking to have more success. Every little step of improvement will pay off. If you want to learn fast, search for a mentor. Many ppl will gladly teach interested newbes. Ofc only if you accept what they tell you instead of claiming "iT wOrKs FoR mE!".

I don't disrepect you. I encourage you to keep playing this game. This game desperatly needs new players. The reason we disagree so vehement on your video is because it teaches newbes wrong. This will only lead to frustration.

 

[battanianbard]

Just for clarification:

1. I didnt say turnblock was any good in a 1vs1 situation. I meant turnblocks can be helpfull when fighting multiple opponents. What you call "footwork" is in fact the absence of footwork. What you really want after blocking your opponents attack is to counter attack. You can't counter attack when you look at way from your opponent. Sure, you can turn your swing towards him, but these are very obvious attacks and easy to block. You need your footwork for more important tasks: Outranging and outcircling enemies, dodge attacks and kicks, provoke enemy teamhits.

2. Maybe "useless" is too harsh. You might benefit using bashing to some degree. You just would benefit more if you improved your blocking skill.

3. I didn't suggest feint spam. I said spam. Spamming means to break up the attack-block-attack-block exchange. When you see an opponentent feinting before every attack just attack-attack instead of preparing to block. Spam is very succesfull when you improve your speed and footwork. You can spam inexperienced players to death without having to block a single time. This is why everyone and their mother tells you to work on footwork and spam instead.

Most feinters do their feint patterns absolutly blind. Especially those you will encounter in tdm or siege. You overestimate their power. Feinter does not equal experienced player. In fact many noobs overfeint. These ppl you are trying to beat with your creative methods are just 1 or 2 steps ahead of you in a very steep learning curve.
There are ofc feinters who don't feint blind. But these are rare unicorns. You don't need to work on strategies how to beat those bc you won't succeed anyway.

You said learning to block would take quite a long time to develop. This is a misconception. You don't just "learn" blocking once. You keep learning and keep improving as long as you play M&B. And you don't need to be an expert in blocking to have more success. Every little step of improvement will pay off. If you want to learn fast, search for a mentor. Many ppl will gladly teach interested newbes. Ofc only if you accept what they tell you instead of claiming "iT wOrKs FoR mE!".

I don't disrepect you. I encourage you to keep playing this game. This game desperatly needs new players. The reason we disagree so vehement on your video is because it teaches newbes wrong. This will only lead to frustration.

I don't feel disrespected! I came here to talk about how to counter feints and I got a (mostly) constructive discussion. I'm thrilled.

Thanks for the clarification. I misread "1vsX" at-a-glance, so we agree about turn-blocking being viable in group fights, and I see what you mean re: spamming attacks now (although doesn't this come with many of the same issues/liabilities as using a kick or bash against a feinter? If you miss, you'll be punished just the same, and it's taking time away from your block practice ). Tongue firmly wedged in cheek here.

I just don't quite understand this idea that I'm actively discouraging people from using fundamentals, or making newbs worse lol. Also the idea that I would benefit "more from blocking" than using a bash to create space is kind of apples to oranges, no? What if I want space? Why not develop both?

My video just presents a few fun survival tools newbs can try out, some stuff to experiment with in big game modes where most will cut their teeth... I can't overstate that. It's not a meta gaming guide for skirmish mastery, presenting the BEST and ONLY way to fight. I thought that was pretty clear from the tone of the video and the rather pedestrian tips, most of which just encourage experimenting with basic combat mechanics that many newbs don't even know exist... and almost ALL of which are presented as a desperate plan B, to be used when the fundamentals fail (i.e. your footwork attempts went awry and now they're hugging you; your active block input went the wrong way and you're panicking, etc)... In those "fail" situations, you know you ****ed up, but now you have a chance to recover and get the fundamentals right this time around.

One thing I can say for certain: turn-blocks, kicks, and bashes make fighting more fun for me, both because they keep me in the fight for awhile longer when I badly **** up, and because they add a bit of variety to exchanges. They're also especially useful to me in group fights.

You don't have to use any of my dumb ideas, but I'm glad they got some people talking about the "correct" approach, at the very least.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Thought it was a fun video and good for newbies. Also think you could probably become pretty consistent using the "wrong" block especially with 2 handers, it's annoyingly reliable; most of us experienced players just don't use it because it's counter-intuitive to us. Don't agree it ruins your footwork right now because the attack reset is so huge you don't really need good footwork, just counter attacking you have the advantage.

You could probably expand on the kicks by letting people know how to successfully land a hit after kicking (you must release the attack whilst in the kick animation, it's bugged), and you should learn that a missed kick leaves you very vulnerable thus the counter kick. So "kick all the time" probably not viable, much to the chagrin of DM.