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Feint spam survival tips for beginners

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FearSpear

Squire
Great news: this isn't a work-around, and none of these techniques need to REPLACE gittin' gud. Imagine knowing how to defend "properly" (whatever that means), but ALSO knowing how to bash, kick, and turn block? Glorious.
People on siege and TDM have used similar tricks when encountered with good players, and after a year of practice on siege and TDM they are still such jokes that ANY competitive skirmish player, even the WORST competitive skirmish player can go on their server and dumpster them. Sure they get a bash, extend the fight for one more swing, but they NEVER have learned how to block. These tips ARE a work around. You are negatively affecting everyone that watches and applies knowledge from your video.

The only way to improve is to play competitive games comprised of higher skill individuals. You will adjust to their level quickly or not at all. This is how everyone good has ever learned how to play the game, and it is a 500 hour struggle or longer.
 
Sure they get a bash, extend the fight for one more swing, but they NEVER have learned how to block. These tips ARE a work around. You are negatively affecting everyone that watches and applies knowledge from your video.
If my bash extends the exchange by one beat, and then I try to block on the next swing... what have I lost?
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
they NEVER have learned how to block
I'm being sincere here. What kind of "how to block" do you want people to learn? I'd like to understand why the blocking tips in the video prevents people from learning the "real block".
 

FearSpear

Squire
If my bash extends the exchange by one beat, and then I try to block on the next swing... what have I lost?
Bashing is risky against good players who will react to it after 1-2 bashes and turn their camera away to narrowly miss it. A bash leaves you open to an attack whereas a block does not. You would know this if you were a better player.
 

FearSpear

Squire
I'm being sincere here. What kind of "how to block" do you want people to learn? I'd like to understand why the blocking tips in the video prevents people from learning the "real block".
Bashing and kicking are both advanced techniques which can be punished and should not be attempted without a good understanding of movement and footwork which comes well after learning basic blocking. "Turn-Blocking" instills an incorrect muscle memory reaction to an opposite side swing, when the first reaction that should be instilled is simply blocking in that direction. You shouldn't let an opposite side swing dictate your footwork, you should be reacting to an opposite side swing by an opposite side block as opposed to doing a 180 with your camera.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Bashing and kicking are both advanced techniques which can be punished
I somewhat agree with this. The one-handed bash especially has shorter range and smaller hitbox than other bashes. Easy to make a mistake with them, especially when you overuse them. However I still think using bash as a counter to feint to be a valid move. Of course, just like with every technique, we need to learn to use them properly.

You shouldn't let an opposite side swing dictate your footwork, you should be reacting to an opposite side swing by an opposite side block as opposed to doing a 180 with your camera.
Okay but when the feint is too fast for you to go block to the opposite direction, the turn-block is a valid saving move. I agree that getting used to normal blocks is important, but there are times when it would be too late to do that, especially when fighting multiple opponents. The turn-block is a useful technique in those situations. The video even says it's an alternative to a last-second panic block switch.

What I'm personally having difficulty with is those jerking feints that are stupidly hard to read, with the feinter sticking to you at zero distance. If you have any advice on how to deal with them that's better than turn-block I'd love to hear it. Again, I'm being sincere here.
 

Horked

Veteran
WBNWVC
If you have any advice on how to deal with them that's better than turn-block I'd love to hear it. Again, I'm being sincere here.
Footwork.

Strafe and circle. Be out of range when defending and hugging when attacking. The window of opportunity you have when enemy misses is bigger than when he feints. Some players are really good feinters, its like rock-paper-scissors, if two equally skilled feinters face eachother its pretty much random outcome, the player who see the opponents pattern first, and/or have superior footwork will win. Feinting is a great tool but dont overestimate it. Be sure to initiate the engagement, be the first to attack if you know opponent is a feinter. Hold your swings - not just for more damage but to confuse opponent
 

Krisee

Regular
2. Bashing isn't useless, but I guess we can agree to disagree? It's a situational tool that's saved my noob ass against plenty of better feinters, and it's "easier" than changing block direction for beginners, who suck at blocking, because you just have to hit E with your bad block up, instead of getting the right inputs under stress...
If people rely on bashing to escape a feinter they will never learn. Only way to learn is to get your butt handed to you every time until it no longer happens. But I can see why not everyone might like that. You can suffer through it though. That is what I did and I never played the boomers' game.
I don't think the tips are bad per se, but maybe they take the focus away from the skills you should get, mainly knowing your space and blocking, learning proper attack direction in a situation. All combined with footwork of course.
 
Good tips and discussion here, thanks again.

If people rely on bashing to escape a feinter they will never learn. Only way to learn is to get your butt handed to you every time until it no longer happens. But I can see why not everyone might like that. You can suffer through it though. That is what I did and I never played the boomers' game.
I don't think the tips are bad per se, but maybe they take the focus away from the skills you should get, mainly knowing your space and blocking, learning proper attack direction in a situation. All combined with footwork of course.
Fair enough! In my mind, keeping the beginner in the fight for one more beat after ****ing up is worth it, both for fun and for learning (especially the latter). I'm not suggesting anyone abandon the fundamentals, the stuff that really matters, for any of these, though. And in the case of the kick AND the turn block, you're still totally free to block properly. The turn block even gets you used to the idea of "turning" the mouse in the direction of the attack as you would for a block, albeit a little more aggressively than you would normally, so I think there's some skill carryover there that might help beginners pick up basic block mechanics faster, too.

If someone is going to die because they got out-feinted, I'd rather they die after they get an ACTUAL rep of practice in, with an attempt to block or manage distance. If someone is already too close to me, like:
hugging when attacking
(i.e. close enough to kick or bash), I've already screwed up my distance management. So when it comes to learning the game and improving, is it better to die here, or have a way to reset the exchange and try again?

At that point, I'm not managing distance properly anyways, and if I'm getting hypnotized by feints, it might be best to reset the exchange and start over so I can actually learn something, instead of just getting cut down. And by start over, I mean using the "skills you should get" mentioned above.

Bashing and kicking are both advanced techniques which can be punished and should not be attempted without a good understanding of movement and footwork which comes well after learning basic blocking. "Turn-Blocking" instills an incorrect muscle memory reaction to an opposite side swing, when the first reaction that should be instilled is simply blocking in that direction. You shouldn't let an opposite side swing dictate your footwork, you should be reacting to an opposite side swing by an opposite side block as opposed to doing a 180 with your camera.
In regards to turn-blocking, the muscle memory is very close to what you use for proper blocking—a slight turn in the direction of the incoming attack. This video clearly isn't for you so I won't ask you to watch it, but I will say there is plenty of "turn blocking" footage and the amount of actual turning is negligible... it's certainly not a 180 degree camera swing lol. Turn blocking also does not dictate your footwork in any way; it's a reactive, last second move you make when already committed to a foot position, and it leaves you free to move throughout.
 
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Qwezz

Sergeant at Arms
"Here's how you should play the game. Noooo MY WAY is how you play the game" discussions belong on a duel server not the forums. Diffrent playstyles exist for diffrent modes and diffrent pepole. Your way to play isn't end all be all,
unless your playstyle is the fabled, legendary
git gud
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Bashing and kicking are both advanced techniques which can be punished and should not be attempted without a good understanding of movement and footwork which comes well after learning basic blocking. "Turn-Blocking" instills an incorrect muscle memory reaction to an opposite side swing, when the first reaction that should be instilled is simply blocking in that direction. You shouldn't let an opposite side swing dictate your footwork, you should be reacting to an opposite side swing by an opposite side block as opposed to doing a 180 with your camera.
Even with a proper understanding of bashing, there is not much added value to using it (except that it might annoy some players who will then play more reckless)
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Play styles becomes relevant after reaching a certain skill level. Before that point, you should master the basics.


You have enough confidence to break basic principles of play and understand why.
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
Kicking doesn't expose you to anything, other than to glue you to the spot for a split second. Advanced technique = pressing E and maintaining all block options?
Ah well said other than the fact that it is complete bull**** though. You can get counter-kicked, can't block down with a weapon and cannot block at all with a shield. #REMOVEKICKS
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Be out of range when defending and hugging when attacking. [...] Be sure to initiate the engagement, be the first to attack if you know opponent is a feinter. Hold your swings - not just for more damage but to confuse opponent
Hmmm. I see. Defending is harder when they're up in your face, yes. That's why I have a problem with those feinters. I realize that I indeed don't put enough pressure on my opponents. I'll try to be more aggressive to have more control over our distance. Ah yes. They won't be able to do that supersonic jerking if I don't let them anyway. Thanks for the tips.
 
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