Feedback on the Athletic Skill

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@SadShogun , @Dejan

Hey guys, i just wanna give a feedback regarding the speed change of Athletics in 1.5.10. Though I appreciate that I´m no longer a "Speedy Gonzales" on foot, it has also it downsides.

1. Because of the Reduction you will gain less Athletics XP
Speed Bonus from movement is, atm, essential to level up athletics. Since the speed was reduced your bonus from speed gets also reduced, which makes Athletics nearly not worthy to level up. The only thing you can do is chasing fleeing looters(because of their fleeing speed, jawwal tier 2 troops are even better because of 180 Athletics(LOL)) by horse, dismount, and use their fleeing speed to actually get a averrage amount of "speed bonus" to gain XP. This is just ......

2.A Footsoldier Playthrough is nearly impossible
Because of the speed reduction, you cant hunt down looters on foot(Xp loss), or even get out of their weapon range(though you are already "naked" with just a sword/bow and 50points in athletic). Please take into account that you can charge only once(so 1 time a speed bonus) atm, because you cant get out of range fast enough for a second charge, which is ok, but it makes leveling this skill even harder.

3.A suggestion
Since the reduction results in a less XP gain I would be happy if you would at least change/add factors for gain XP. Athletics xp gain(Method spoiled below) should be changed in a way like the riding xp gain. Why?
1. On foot you are more vulnerable
2. On foot you are no longer a flexible fighter(Hit and Run, well with no Armour and a skill of 180 i guess, but reach that....hahhaha)
3. You can´t reposition yourself on foot(until a certan amount in Athletics)

If you want a video example to show this extreme differnce between Riding/Archery and Athletics/Archery, well just ask.


Edit: Just that everybody understand, im ok with the speed reduction. Im not ok with the XP gain/loss through it.


Code:
public static void OnCombatHit(CharacterObject affectorCharacter, CharacterObject affectedCharacter, CharacterObject captain, Hero commander, float speedBonusFromMovement, float shotDifficulty, WeaponComponentData affectorWeapon, float hitPointRatio, CombatXpModel.MissionTypeEnum missionType, bool isAffectorMounted, bool isTeamKill, bool isAffectorUnderCommand, float damageAmount, bool isFatal)
        {
            float num = 1f;
            if (!isTeamKill)
            {
                if (affectorCharacter.IsHero)
                {
                    Hero heroObject = affectorCharacter.HeroObject;
                    CombatXpModel combatXpModel = Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel;
                    CharacterObject characterObject = heroObject.CharacterObject;
                    MobileParty partyBelongedTo = heroObject.PartyBelongedTo;
                    int num2;
                    combatXpModel.GetXpFromHit(characterObject, captain, affectedCharacter, (partyBelongedTo != null) ? partyBelongedTo.Party : null, (int)damageAmount, isFatal, missionType, out num2);
                    num = (float)num2;
                    if (affectorWeapon != null)
                    {
                        SkillObject skillForWeapon = Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel.GetSkillForWeapon(affectorWeapon);
                        float num3 = (skillForWeapon == DefaultSkills.Bow) ? 0.5f : 1f;
                        if (shotDifficulty > 0f)
                        {
                            num += (float)MBMath.Floor(num * num3 * Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel.GetXpMultiplierFromShotDifficulty(shotDifficulty));
                        }
                        heroObject.AddSkillXp(skillForWeapon, (float)MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num));
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Athletics, (float)MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num));
                    }
                    if (isAffectorMounted)
                    {
                        float num4 = 0.1f;
                        if (speedBonusFromMovement > 0f)
                        {
                            num4 *= 1f + speedBonusFromMovement;
                        }
                        else if (shotDifficulty - 1f > 0f)
                        {
                            int num5 = MathF.Round(shotDifficulty - 1f);
                            if (num5 > 0)
                            {
                                num4 += (float)num5;
                            }
                        }
                        if (num4 > 0f)
                        {
                            heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Riding, (float)MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num4 * num));
                        }
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        float num6 = 0.2f;
                        if (speedBonusFromMovement > 0f)
                        {
                            num6 += 1.5f * speedBonusFromMovement;
                        }
                        if (num6 > 0f)
                        {
                            heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Athletics, (float)MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num6 * num));
                        }
                    }
                }
                if (commander != null && commander != affectorCharacter.HeroObject && commander.PartyBelongedTo != null)
                {
                    SkillLevelingManager.OnTacticsUsed(commander.PartyBelongedTo, (float)MathF.Ceiling(0.02f * num));
                }
            }
        }
 
Last edited:

BigFat

Regular
I would have understood if they reduced athletics skill effect OR reduced the %speed increase of certain perks but both was definitely overkill. Considering that infantry are the weakest units right now in many cases, this really didn't do much to help them.
 

LyonExodus

Recruit
to put it simply. "Overnerfed" . even at 250 you feel sluggish.
Slower units is fine, they were a bit too nimble previously.
I don't get why they had to nerf every single speed related perk too.
2H were fun to use in 1.5.9. now i resorted to a Mace and the 1st shield i can find on the ground for protection.
1H ain't bad but it's just not that fun.

I think keeping the skill increase as it is right now is fine but the PERKS should get back to what they were previously, if not even buffed a little.
 

tlowey

Sergeant at Arms
Yes not sure why they nerfed athletics so hard. Maybe a slight decrease in the perks would have been fine. I had a character who could catch anyone on foot now even looters out run me. Athletics to me are a fun way of playing but not sure TW like you having fun.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
That's not surprising. TW's habit when it comes to adjustments is to nerf with a sledgehammer and buff with a feather duster.
 
1. Because of the Reduction you will gain less Athletics XP
Speed Bonus from movement is, atm, essential to level up athletics. Since the speed was reduced your bonus from speed gets also reduced, which makes Athletics nearly not worthy to level up. The only thing you can do is chasing fleeing looters(because of their fleeing speed, jawwal tier 2 troops are even better because of 180 Athletics(LOL)) by horse, dismount, and use their fleeing speed to actually get a averrage amount of "speed bonus" to gain XP. This is just ......
Yeah this is big. Personally the speed it's self is fine, but the slower rate of skill exp and practical gaining of it (can't catch looters for easy skill) is bad.
Has TW ever addressed why it's designed to give much more skill for thrusting hits?
 
2.A Footsoldier Playthrough is nearly impossible
Because of the speed reduction, you cant hunt down looters on foot(Xp loss), or even get out of their weapon range(though you are already "naked" with just a sword/bow and 50points in athletic). Please take into account that you can charge only once(so 1 time a speed bonus) atm, because you cant get out of range fast enough for a second charge, which is ok, but it makes leveling this skill even harder.

3.A suggestion
Since the reduction results in a less XP gain I would be happy if you would at least change/add factors for gain XP. Athletics xp gain(Method spoiled below) should be changed in a way like the riding xp gain. Why?
1. On foot you are more vulnerable
2. On foot you are no longer a flexible fighter(Hit and Run, well with no Armour and a skill of 180 i guess, but reach that....hahhaha)
3. You can´t reposition yourself on foot(until a certan amount in Athletics)

A good helpfull solution for footsoldier playthrough would be that when enemies flee disorderly they have the chance of falling down or tripping, thus giving footsoldiers a chance to "catch up" to them like cav does.
 
A good helpfull solution for footsoldier playthrough would be that when enemies flee disorderly they have the chance of falling down or tripping, thus giving footsoldiers a chance to "catch up" to them like cav does.
Yeah this would be good. Also I think looter/bandits should just have slow speed when they rout thier current speed and eagerness to rout makes training infantry very annoying. It's only an annoyance to the player since all AI parties fight them with auto calc so they can't rout.
Yes-yes the player can auto calc too but NO. No thank you. Nope. Unless you have ONLY low level troops in your party, but even them they seem to get less exp then live battle.
 
Yeah this would be good. Also I think looter/bandits should just have slow speed when they rout thier current speed and eagerness to rout makes training infantry very annoying. It's only an annoyance to the player since all AI parties fight them with auto calc so they can't rout.
Yes-yes the player can auto calc too but NO. No thank you. Nope. Unless you have ONLY low level troops in your party, but even them they seem to get less exp then live battle.
+1
 
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