[Feedback] New Singleplayer starter quest is very good

CtrlAltDe1337

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
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I just wanted to give a little feedback here over the singleplayer starter quest.  IMO its pretty well done and very fun.  It really gives the new players some direction and helps them get into the game.  I know that when I first started playing after Zendar was removed, I was like "well what am I supposed to do now?"  This corrects that and gets people into the game very well.  I'd love to see more of these type things, either for starting out, or for more fleshed out quests (or both).  And dare I say it, a storyline would be a great addition.
 

A_Mustang

Baron
WBM&BVC
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I also love the descriptions each part of the world gets in the intro... I would like a option "Tell me about Land X" at the traveler's dialogs that also fleshes out the lands of each of the fractions. 
 

Adorno

Bedroom Assassin
Duke
WBNWM&BVC
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I think they perfectly introduce you to the game and gives you some action right from the start.
Just what was needed.
 

Emciel

Sergeant at Arms
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now that we have this wonderful starting quest, i think the training fields need some editing.
as they were the old starting locations, they have some message boxes and stuff which is to help new players that are no longer necessary.
 

Wheem

Grandmaster Knight
WF&SVCWB
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I actually meant to post some feedback about this the other day, but got distracted with playing the game :oops:.

Overall I think the quest is excellent. It does a good job of introducing the player to the game, gives a nice amount of denars for an entry level character, and I found it to be pretty entertaining as well.

I think it'd be good idea to put in some dialogue (or a popup box) with some instructions on ordering your soldiers around. Maybe something along the lines of the merchant suggesting that once you recruit your 5 men, that it'd be a good idea for all of you to stick together to avoid being isolated and taken out piecemeal (which is what happened to my recruits when I didn't give orders :razz:). After this, the player could get a popup box describing the use of the army commands; it might even be good to suggest the alternate use of "Follow Me," "Hold Position," and "Charge". Perhaps telling the player that it's a good idea to use Follow or Hold commands if his soldiers are getting a little too eager and spreading out on the charge. Once his men are back together and the enemy is closing, issuing another Charge order will be effective; after all, an army requires discipline :cool:.

My only suggestions for improving the quest itself, would be:
1) Either have the Looter spawn points at their hideout be a little closer together, or have the enemies be more proactive in seeking out the player's forces. I had a few cases where I'd "cleared" the camp, only to have one or two enemies relaxing back near the entry region. New players might be confused as to why the quest isn't ending, especially in cases where terrain blocks their sight and their NPCs are all dead or unconscious.

2) When starting at Sargoth, the Looter hideout was near an inland village, but the battle map was at a sea coast - complete with anchored/tethered ships in the water. A river coast would have fit with the geography of where the camp was, but the sea didn't :wink:.

3) Maybe we should see/fight the guard captain at the final stage of the quest? We fight his bandit henchmen there, but I've not seen the ringleader. Perhaps just having him spawn and run up to the player and initiate dialogue (like the merchant and merchant's brother do at various points) would be good? Maybe he could curse us and vow revenge or something, before surrendering. Having him attack might be neat too, but in that case I don't think he should spawn in after his henchmen are dead, but rather be there from the get go (otherwise he's going to get taken out before the player really gets a chance to fight him).

A third but more involved option could be having us enter a building after the street battle, and facing the guard captain there (sort of like what happens at the final stage of some siege battles). It could either be he and a few henchmen against the player and townspeople, or the captain alone - facing the player 1v1. I think this would provide a neat ending for the quest, though it might not be doable in the couple days that are left before release.

One other thing to add - the quest text says that the volunteer "militia" army of townspeople have knives and clubs, but I really only see them using their fists. Not sure if this is a bug or what, but clubs and butcher knives usually defeat bare knuckles pretty easily :wink:. Though once the townspeople get their weapons, I think it might be best if the streets didn't have guards hanging around that helped out.
 

Makh

Following the vein of Wheem's post, bandit hideouts need a) less crazy terrain, and b) less people. I've only seen the steppe bandit lair (in .802 it was just Dashbigha) and the desert bandit lair (a well-done version in .860), along with the starter-quest lair that's a little messed up. Bandits spawn way ahead of you in the cave by the water, and the house (those are fine) but then they spawn way behind you on the cliff. It'd be okay if that was the logical next destination, but you're already at the house... even if you go back towards the cliff, they'll spawn at the house and water again too. Which brings me to my other point, they just have too many people. Killing bandits is fun, but it gets really tedious after the 40th one, especially when they're so spread out, and you have no horse.
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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I quite enjoyed it and thought it's the perfect little mini-drama to start the game. I started in Sarranid (sp?) and thought the thieves hideout looked quite stunning - a nice oasis feel to it. I trained my 7 recruits at the training field for about 8-10 sessions beforehand and we had no problem dealing with those robbers.
 

Kazzan

Count
M&BWBNW
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The swadian bandit camp was nice, so was the Rhodokian. Have yet to witness the vaegir and Nord ones though, i tried nords but there didn't seem to spawn and robber party outside the town.
 

Adorno

Bedroom Assassin
Duke
WBNWM&BVC
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Kazzan said:
I tried nords but there didn't seem to spawn and robber party outside the town.
I just tried that one and it worked fine, although the robbers spawned on the town icon so I didn't see them at first.
The kidnapper's hideout is beautiful.
 

Kronic

Duke
M&BWB
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Not sure if it's a bug or I've merely gone completely blind, but I seem unable to find the party of bandits in the Saranid start. :/
 

Krogan

Veteran
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This quest seems to sometimes cause a bug however, making all characters in the game just thank you for your help.
 

Adorno

Bedroom Assassin
Duke
WBNWM&BVC
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Just tried the Sarranid starting quest and it works also. I think the problem is the robbers can spawn far away from the town,
or at least out of your spotting range.

Krogan said:
This quest seems to sometimes cause a bug however, making all characters in the game just thank you for your help.
That's been reported and should be fixed. Don't do the final dialogue with the merchant until then.
 

Kronic

Duke
M&BWB
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I've circled the town at a fair distance: I'll check even further out then.

EDIT: Found them by Yalibe in the end. :/

EDIT 2: Thrown up an interesting bug; every time I talk to the Merchant, it re-completes the "Find 5 people" quest. As a result, I have about 20 robber parties out there, and if I re-kill them I get a new hideout....despite having completed the hideout quest and been told to return to the merchant.
 

alh_p

Sergeant at Arms
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I agree with others here that the starting quest is a refreshing and wholely positive addition to starting a new game. Good job guys!

I would also echo Wheem and others' suggestions here, there are a few rough edges that could be polished.

On a Wheem's 3rd suggestion, although I agree that not involving the player in the climax of the quest -dealing with the guard captain might be missing something, I'm not so sure that a complete noob player facing a guard captain is a great idea. The bandits quest is ok for a starting character because the bandits themselves are as easy prey as Looters. How could the player face the guard captain on an equal footing? Perhaps by having the player and his party break in to the captain's quarters, in sufficient numbers to mob him?
 

Marcus Brutus

Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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My game keeps freezing up when I try to leave the merchant of praven's home, not on any of the others I have tried.
 

Wheem

Grandmaster Knight
WF&SVCWB
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Bandits spawn way ahead of you in the cave by the water, and the house (those are fine) but then they spawn way behind you on the cliff. It'd be okay if that was the logical next destination, but you're already at the house... even if you go back towards the cliff, they'll spawn at the house and water again too.
Agreed.

Which brings me to my other point, they just have too many people. Killing bandits is fun, but it gets really tedious after the 40th one, especially when they're so spread out, and you have no horse.
I don't think I ever had to kill anywhere near 40, though the camps might indeed be a tad too spread out for being on foot, especially since some early players are going to have little if any athletics. However, I think this is only a "problem" because of the continual spawns at the various locations; if the player cleared one area, then moved deeper into the camp without spawns happening behind him, I think it'd be fine.

How could the player face the guard captain on an equal footing? Perhaps by having the player and his party break in to the captain's quarters, in sufficient numbers to mob him?
A Guard Captain wouldn't necessarily have to be an amazing fighter. A modern day police chief isn't necessarily the strongest, fastest, or sharpest shooting policeman on the force. Plus, it's quite possible that he achieved the position through political connections and/or corruption, rather than his own merits.
 

Berserker Pride

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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Kocken said:
My game keeps freezing up when I try to leave the merchant of praven's home, not on any of the others I have tried.
I had the merchant of jelaka's house freeze up when pressing tab to leave too!  Then I tried again starting in nord territory and it worked.

You should probably post that in the bugtracker though.  Nothing worse than the game crashing for a new person at the very beginning.
 

Wheem

Grandmaster Knight
WF&SVCWB
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If you're freezing up when trying to exit the merchant's house, make sure you wait for the "Hit tab to leave" dialogue box to appear. I forget which merchant's house I was in at the time, but I had it freeze up on me once when I tried to leave immediately after talking to him. I haven't had any issue when I waited for the box to appear (not that I'm saying the issue shouldn't be corrected, just that there appears to be a way around it).