Feature Request: Dynamic changing settlement cultures

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DennyWiseau

Veteran
In bannerlord it seems a greater emphasis has been put on longevity and connectivity between features. People reproduce grow old and die, towns prospers or stagnate depending on varies events such as wars and caravans imports/export.
All these features are in essence dynamic and give the game a sense of change as times passes. However the culture of settlements is totally static, despite of being conqured by different cultures for over 50+ years with old generations long dead. It feels like a missed oportunity by TW to bring more interesting dynamics to the game.
I know that devs are focused on resolving current issues and flesh out features already in the game but I really think this should be implemented before release.

There is a great mod call Dynaculture that besically does this very well already with loads of customizable features such as gradual assimilation (https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/639?tab=description)
Here is a breif summery from the mod page description:
To put it simply, this mod adds a dynamic simulation of settlement culture and influence based on the owning kingdom or clan and surrounding environmental factors. The primary effect is that expanding a kingdom's territory will expand their influence, affecting neighboring settlements and eventually causing them to flip to the kingdom's culture.

While the mod sadly is abandoned at the moment and may or may not be picked up again, I still feel like dynamically shifting settlement cultures/assimilation should be vanilla at least to some extend.
 
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Ironking

Sergeant at Arms
WBVC
How long would it take for an entire settlement to switch culture though? One persons lifetime or two or three?
The time frame of the game might allow for one switch per game but having settlements switch back and forth would be pretty unrealistic imho.
 

Magello

Sergeant
I like it and it makes sense. For the game I would say fifteen to twenty years so you could see the change. It may not be the most realistic but it would add a fun dynamic. What would be best if you could see a blending of the two first, such as 50/50 change, hard to do but would be fun to see mixed buildings, banners, clothing, and colors. Higher rebellion chances too.
 

DennyWiseau

Veteran
How long would it take for an entire settlement to switch culture though? One persons lifetime or two or three?
The time frame of the game might allow for one switch per game but having settlements switch back and forth would be pretty unrealistic imho.
That is simply a question of balance like everything else in the game, right now high tier armors cost almost 1 mil for chest piece which is pretty unrealistic :lol:.

But you are right about switching back and fourth too quickly between culture would be not only realistic but also annoying.
I think the gradual assmilation option in the dynaculture mod seems pretty convinent/realistic solution for this;
Gradual Assimilation:
This allows you to control whether settlements should assimilate gradually. By default, settlements will take some time to shift to a new stable state based on surrounding influence factors.

That being said, maybe a safeguard/timer script should be set in place to make sure that at least a decade or two(or more) pass before a culture switch is performed.

Its a compromise between gameplay/realism like so many other things
 
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DennyWiseau

Veteran
I like it and it makes sense. For the game I would say fifteen to twenty years so you could see the change. It may not be the most realistic but it would add a fun dynamic. What would be best if you could see a blending of the two first, such as 50/50 change, hard to do but would be fun to see mixed buildings, banners, clothing, and colors. Higher rebellion chances too.

There would be so much potential for this feature dependent on the time and effort put in to it, for a start just simply changing troop rousters seems the most straight forward change, then like you said loyalty change/rebellion change factors.
All these features I assume could be easily implemented by TW when you consider that the dynaculture mod already does much of this and is made by just 1 person.

It would be cool to see the gradual change of structures and towns people too but this might be more complex/harder and not worth it to implement in TW eyes(have no clue really just assumption).

All this is speculation of cause
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Definitely for this too. Let the “culture changing back and forth too often” worry be tempered by an ever increasing chance of uprising or “purging” of cultures possibly having you hesitate to impose your culture on these people
 
FWIW irl without compulsory education the culture of areas often took hundreds and hundreds of years to shift to that of their overlords
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
FWIW irl without compulsory education the culture of areas often took hundreds and hundreds of years to shift to that of their overlords
Obviously in a game things are artificially accelerated- look at the sheer amount of wars happening - normally that amount would be drawn out over generations
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Not sure if that's some sort of jab: it means "for what it's worth". Available via google and all that.

Take it easy dude - just because you prequalify your assertion with FWIW -doesnt mean others cant point out an inconsistency in the statement

PS: That Does Make All The Difference
 
Take it easy dude - just because you prequalify your assertion with FWIW -doesnt mean others cant point out an inconsistency in the statement

PS: That Does Make All The Difference
..huh? I am taking it easy. There's nothing at stake here lol, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out what you had said

It wasn't an inconsistency, just a mitigating factor to the "worth", which is why I mentioned that in my reply
 

84Slashes

Veteran
I've posted this in 2 other threads already, hopefully not crossing some spammy line :oops: but I have a suggestion on this front.

Town owners should be able to build ethnic enclaves that unlock troop recruitment from different cultures than the settlement, and provide trade goods from that culture.

For example if I own Tyal but decide I'd like some Khuzait flavor in the town, I can spend denars to build a 'Khuzait quarter' which once completed could have the following effects:

  • Adds 1-2 new Khuzait notables providing Khuzait troops for recruitment
  • Adds a small selection of Khuzait armor, weapons, and trade goods (e.g. steppe horses) to the town's inventory
Further considerations to flesh this idea out:

  • A town can only have 1 ethnic enclave -- so players have to choose carefully if they value Imperial armor and trade goods, or Vlandian soldiers, in their decision of whether to build an Imperial quarter or a Vlandian district
  • Adding an ethnic enclave should reduce settlement loyalty and security, both to make it a meaningful trade-off (otherwise no reason not to build one in every town) and to reflect the sad historical reality that xenophobia and ethnic conflict was (and remains) a thing
  • Town owners should also be able to demolish or change the culture an ethnic enclave if they decide they must -- but it should come at a severe temporary malus to settlement security and loyalty. Effectively you are purging an entire community that was previously invited to the town. This may be a choice particularly when a town changes hands and the new owners (including the player) prefer one culture over another.
I think this would give players a meaningful new way to invest in their towns, and enable them to unlock access to non-settlement culture troops in towns within reasonable limits.
 
I just posted something similar before reading this thread:

Does anyone know if changing culture after conquest is planned / announced by TW?

For me it's such an important feature in a sandbox. And it's not just that, current features like rebellions, loyalty or recruitment very much rely on culture, so if changing culture becomes a thing these features need to be balanced around it plus additional mechanics. For me it would be one of the top priorities.

Generally, if you conquer a settlement there should be a way to change culture over time. This process could be accelerated with building projects, perks and skills, governors and policies. Until conversion is finished, you face a higher risk of rebellions because people don't identify themselves with their leaders (lower loyalty). The other obvious effect would be the ability to recruit troops of your own culture.
You could also add all sorts of other side effects, for example that your kingdom policies are more efficient when the settlement has your culture.

If party speed penalties get applied when you are in enemy / neutral territory this should be affected by culture as well:

Example: You conquer a settlement you get -20 speed penalty in that territory because it's not your culture. This also means that the former owner of the settlement has an advantage in these lands until culture changes and the speed penalty no longer applies to you.

I think it should also be possible to play completely different though. Maybe you don't want to assimilate but prefer cultural diversity. This could also have benefits like a larger pool of troop types. If you allow people to keep their cultural identity it could also mean they rebel less. At the same time it might be a better target for the former owner because they already share their culture.

Or you mix both, assimilate settlements at your border but allow people to remain their culture in a settlement far away.


Obviously it's not realistic that culture of a settlement changes within a few years, but for gameplay reasons the whole campaign speed is already increased anyway so I guess it would fit the pace of the game.

 

DennyWiseau

Veteran
Current features like rebellions, loyalty or recruitment very much rely on culture, so if changing culture becomes a thing these features need to be balanced around it plus additional mechanics. For me it would be one of the top priorities.
This really is the crux of the issue, it would make these feature even more meaningful and the loyalty tied to culture might actually give you an incentive to defend settlements you conquered along time ago because the shift in culture is further on its way to be beneficial for you(increased loyalty, faction troops, less likely to rebel etc).

Right now I couldent care less about settlemtents I conquered and held for a long time in my campagins. I just plop a random nobody companion with no skills but same culture as governour to keep it them from rebelling/loyality going to low, and then forget about it. In fact I often sacrifice those settlement later in my campaign to focus on recently conqured settelments without the hassles of different cultures.
 

Magello

Sergeant
These are all very good ideas. I really like the idea of cultural influence being pushed on the map to "infecting" villages, towns, and castles on your borders and having policy over accepting other cultures in your city, such as the Mongols did, to suppressing and forcing them to change. Even the post further up mentioning
Town owners should be able to build ethnic enclaves that unlock troop recruitment from different cultures than the settlement, and provide trade goods from that culture.
Is a big step in the right direction. I would actually really like it if we could focus on pushing our culture into rival cities with the influence of caravans and our workshops, kind of like in Civilization were you could culturally capture a city I would like to see you being able to use your Rogue skill or rogue companions to sow dissent in a city struggling with loyalty
 

84Slashes

Veteran
Yes! Caravans are criminally underused right now. A simple example: let town owners build a new settlement building: the caravanserai, which will reduce the trade penalty for arriving caravans and add +1 to the prosperity of the settlement, but decreases security and adds 1 merchant notable from a random culture.
 

shades_o_grey

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Playing as Battania, I struggle to get fiefs of my culture. When I take a fief belonging to an enemy of my people, I'd like to run the usurpers out and resettle the land with good Battanian stock.

Make there be a hit to prosperity and relations, fine, but this a game set in the medieval period. That is a thing that was done.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
If something like this is ever implemented it would have to be extremely difficult and take a very long time to achieve and would require some sort of population mechanic if there was active colonisation. If changing the architecture of cities was a part of it there'd have to be new scenes for mixed culture cities, like the western Roman cities under the barbarian kingdoms, so you don't get Battanian or Khuzait city models in the middle of imperial lands. One of the things I hated about the way this was done in Total War was that a city like Rome could be transformed into a barbarian hill fort in a couple of years.
 
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