Fallout 4

Users who are viewing this thread

N0body said:
Most crashing in Bethsoft games on google will be related to modding. Missing masters, corrupt installations and outright incompatible mods will cause issues. Just go on Bethsoft forums and look up the word crash and what it is related to. Just about every instance of the word will be related to idiots not installing mods correctly.
Right. So you actually looked at the hundreds of thousands of hits that Google brought up and figured that?

N0body said:
Bethesda games are pretty stable in my experience

Wikipedia] At the launch of Skyrim said:
I don't think Bethesda did the QA for F: NV, as the people listed in the credits (Anthony Rogers, Ashley Betters, Casey Kwock) worked for Obsidian at the time and there's no mention of Bethesda anywhere in their resume.
That's Obsidian's internal QA that works hand-in-hand with the programmers as the game is being made. Bethesda, as all publishers do, performs additional QA as no developer is big enough to have a large enough QA department.
 
krik said:
The only time I used tgm is when I would quicksave then scale the player up to King Kong sizes, and exterminate towns.
I only ever used it in the when I was carrying to much but it was vital to my characters weapons collection. Because in all these games since the days of Morrowind I horde at last one of every weapons/armor set I can find. It was nicer in Morrowind since I could reliably set all of it out on tables and shelves.
 
Jhessail said:
N0body said:
Most crashing in Bethsoft games on google will be related to modding. Missing masters, corrupt installations and outright incompatible mods will cause issues. Just go on Bethsoft forums and look up the word crash and what it is related to. Just about every instance of the word will be related to idiots not installing mods correctly.
Right. So you actually looked at the hundreds of thousands of hits that Google brought up and figured that?

Have you? I'm just basing my stance and comments off what I've seen and experienced. I went through Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout without a single crash. I moaned about how easy the games were all, and how poorly written the games were and the lack of depth in the mechanics. I ran into countless bugs, such as side quests not finishing properly or weird ragdoll related issues (ragdolls stretching strangely). Heck I ran into floating objects in the world and all that, yet I ran into nothing gamebreaking, nor crashes in my playthroughs. I liked the games but I didn't like them that much - comparably to games like ArmA, Mount and Blade and Warband, I put very little time into Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout.

I used to be a regular on both the Bethesda forums and the Nexus forums, so I saw countless bug reports and people crying for help when they crashed. Yet most of the time the issues were related to people making dangerous ini changes, such as increasing ugrids to load IIRC, or just outright installing hundreds of mods and hoping it'd work out fine for them. Missing master files, improperly cleaned mods - you name it. Modding is huge in that scene, and the vast majority of reports will be related to people incorrectly installing mods.

But what I've experienced may not be as it is, I admit. But I'm arguing based on my experiences - I'll concede without a moment's notice if evidence at hand dictates otherwise. Claiming they are outright broken is something I disagree with though. They've been stable for me. Sloppy as I've said and lacking depth, and all round not that great. So especially after Skyrim, I'm very cynical about Fallout 4. Bethesda has a track record of being sloppy in my eyes. They remove features and try to streamline their games, making changes for the sake of change.

Though reading over my post, I realize I wrote my previous post a little too 'matter-of-fact' though.

Jhessail said:
N0body said:
Bethesda games are pretty stable in my experience

[quote author=Wikipedia]
At the launch of Skyrim, a multitude of technical issues ranging from small to large in scale were being reported. Some examples include a texture down-scaling issue on the Xbox 360 version when the game was run from the hard drive;[67] crashes, slowdown and frame rate issues on the PlayStation 3 version when save files exceeded 6 MB,[68] commonly occurring due to extended game play times;[69] and various crashes and slowdowns on the Windows version. According to Skyrim's director Todd Howard the misconception of 'restrictive RAM'[70] is incorrect, "It's literally the things you've done in what order and what's running."[71]

[quote author=Wikipedia]
Shortly before the game's release, IGN posted a review of the game citing numerous bugs and crashes in the PlayStation 3 release.[110] The game also contained a bug causing the game to freeze and the screen to blur when friends signed out of and into the PlayStation Network.[110] The IGN review was edited shortly thereafter, removing all references to the PS3 version's bugs, causing controversy in the PlayStation communities.[110][111] Reviewing PlayStation 3 Game of the Year edition, Digital Chumps and Spawn Kill confirmed that most bugs remained, citing occasional freezes, several animation and scripting issues, along with other bugs requiring a restart of the game.[112][113] Even IGN retroactively cited bugs with the original release, as well as the Game of the Year edition, calling it "a fantastic game", but warning players to "be aware that you might have to deal with some crashes and bugs".[114][/quote]

And that's Wikipedia, meaning that those issues were brought up by games media, notorious for giving big name games a free pass.
[/quote]

Never played on the consoles (let alone ever owned one since the PS2), so I've been unaware of any issues relating to the consoles. Waste of money, in my opinion.
 
N0body said:
Never played on the consoles (let alone ever owned one since the PS2), so I've been unaware of any issues relating to the consoles. Waste of money, in my opinion.

Ouch! :shock:
 
N0body said:
Never played on the consoles (let alone ever owned one since the PS2), so I've been unaware of any issues relating to the consoles. Waste of money, in my opinion.
Thing is, PC version usually shares most of the bugs (PS3/Xbox360 exclusive bugs are quite rare if you go into the wikis and read the list of bugs on the entries), but the PC version gets patched a lot quicker than the consoles.

Basically Jhess be saying "You're trying to justify something after the fact it's been fixed, rather than the fact that it even happened at all". Note how the wiki entry does have "Various slowdowns and crashes on Windows" along with Todd blaming load orders.
 
Oh, I know why people hate him. I just think he has a nice face that renders me unable to dislike him too much. If you go to /r/Fallout, literally every other post is a meme about how great he is since E3, which is hilariously stupid.
 
To be fair, he's the only E3 presenter who didn't look like he was about to **** his pants up on stage, and actually showed legit in-engine gameplay rather than pre-rendered garbage.
 
DoctorPainkiller said:
To be fair, he's the only E3 presenter who didn't look like he was about to **** his pants up on stage, and actually showed legit in-engine gameplay rather than pre-rendered garbage.

Kind of sad that we've reached this point, isn't it?
 
Cookie Eating Huskarl said:
People hate him because every installment of TES, he promises that they are adding stuff, not subtracting. The net value however always ends up a negative.

How hard have you looked though? Maybe it's there and maybe you haven't looked hard enough. I mean there are a lot of chests behind waterfalls in Skyrim, perhaps your dreams are in one of them?
 
Ladders. Don't forget ladders. Too hard for Oblivion, F3 and Skyrim.

"We're going to have the most amazing visuals for you, the Imperial City, the capital of the entire Empire, is here for you to explore!"

Maybe twenty houses with ten NPCs. Changed Cyrodiil from jungle/swamp/tropical zone to Ye Olde English Countryside. Because jungle/swamp/tropical stuff is too hard.

Oh hell, I'll just repost portions of the RPGCodex review of Oblivion which had collected many of the lies Bethesda sprouted:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

"However, with Morrowind I think we saw that our kind of game appeals to a wider audience, given the game's success among more casual gamers who are neither "hardcore" nor "RPG geeks".
Gavin Carter​

That quote is probably the best and most honest description of Oblivion I've ever seen. It's a game for casual players. Hardcore fans of the series or RPG geeks need not apply. You shall not find depth or challenge in Oblivion.

"I think it's fair to say that a game involving a demonic horde invasion qualifies as a dark game."
Gavin Carter

While that may be true in theory, Oblivion is not such a game. First, there is no demonic horde invasion going on there. The demons did open portals all over the place, but instead of invading, they are patiently waiting for you to show up and close all those portals in not very timely manner. Second, the rest of the world doesn't seem to care much and if they do, they hide it well.

"I even ran into a gate to Oblivion and decided to enter and see what lay within."
Gavin Carter

Our friend Gavin was surely jesting with us, because every gate is more or less the same... If you recall, the Oblivion plane was a tightly guarded secret and the reviewers, who were invited to Bethesda, were prevented from entering Oblivion gates. Now you know why. Uninspiring would be a good word, which is disappointing, because a lot could have been done there.

"There are fewer skills, but they'll be better balanced."
Gavin Carter

some skills have been merged - one Blade skill for all bladed weapons, one Blunt skill for all non-bladed weapons, some skills have been dropped, some concepts have been changed - enchanting is no longer a skill, but a service, staffs are "rocket launchers" and can't be used as melee weapons, crossbows are gone again, etc.

While Bethesda tried to invite people to play straight classes with extra bonuses, I don't really see a reason for a fighter to pick Blade, Blunt, and Hand to Hand skills and spend time raising all three, considering that these skills are practically the same and have the same perks. I don't think that many thieves would agree with Bethesda's suggestion to use bows for stealth kills and blocking (yes, blocking), and I don't think that pure mages' problems have been fixed by the rocket launchers because every character can use them, so in the end, the most viable option is still the fighter/mage/thief character, mainly due to the poorly developed & supported concepts of straight fighters, mages, thieves.

"The magic system has so much more in it, that it would take me 100 pages to answer it all."
Todd Howard

I'd really like to read at least the first 10 pages, because all I can think of are the newly added cast-n-fight feature, the staffs (a.k.a. rocket launchers), the recharge stones as an alternative to soul gems, and the above mentioned portal stones for enchanting. I can't believe that Todd wasted 100 pages for what I fit in one sentence.

"Well, most good RPGs have action."
Pete Hines

Of course, they do and since Oblivion is a good RPG, it has plenty of action. It seems to me that all problems in Tamriel are solved through violence (which causes more problems down the road, but that's a different story for another Elder Scrolls game). I can't really blame them considering how awful the persuasion mini-game is. I mean, if I had to choose between trying to quickly admire, boast, coerce, joke (yes, all of them at the same time) and hitting someone in the face with a hammer, I'll probably pick the hammer.

"So even though we have this really deep RPG, we recognized that no matter how many parts the game has -- combat is the number one thing people do a lot of, so we need to make it great."
Todd Howard

From the role-playing point of view, Oblivion combat sucks. You always hit to please the action crowd and your skill determines damage to please the smaller RPG camp. Needless to say, 15 points of damage are more then 8 points of damage but when you always hit, it's only a matter of time (and health potions).

"But let's face it - when you talk about ranged combat in an RPG, you're talking about bows."
Gavin Carter

If you recall, there was a huge uproar when Todd announced that crossbows and throwing weapons have been axed (or blunted), but - BUT! - bows will be done in a grand, never-seen-before, I-can't-believe-it's-not-a-crossbow way. Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss was all about. Other than "look, my arrow is sticking out of that guy's ass, isn't that cool?" wow factor, I can't say that this "grand" way is much better than, say, what I've seen in Interplay's Stonekeep 10 or so years ago or what Painkiller's crossbow had to offer a few years ago.

"The player needs a certain size and a large number of choices to really make role-playing feel meaningful"
Todd Howard

Well, hopefully one day Todd will make such a game, but let's talk about Oblivion for now...  Even people with zero imagination would find that dialogue options are incredibly limiting, and that even the most basic and logical options are not there. You can't talk to hundreds of bandits and marauders you will find in ruins, caves, and forts. You can't handle such encounters peacefully by persuading them, fooling them, bribing them, and not to mention joining them. Once they see you, it's fight to the death, and considering that everything is scaled down to your level, the outcome is predictable and rarely challenging.

"We track that on a faction basis, as well as every individual. You can make friends anywhere in the game, it's just harder with enemy factions."
Todd Howard

No kidding. When enemy factions such as the Necromancers cult and the Mythic Dawn cult see your friendly face, they tell you how they gonna own your ass (I guess they haven't been told that enemies are tied to your level, ensuring their untimely death), and, without giving you a chance to say something positive, they attack.

"The political landscape of the game world is highly fractured following the emperor's assassination, and you will have to be cautious of the motives of those who would befriend you."
Gavin Carter

You wouldn't be lying to your old pals, Gavin, would you? You shouldn't be cautious of the motives of those who would befriend you because a) you don't have a choice and even if you suspect something there is not a damn thing you can do about it, and b) Ken Rolston has this "no betrayal" rule (Douglas Goodall: ""No betrayal" meant that key NPCs couldn't turn on the player, lie to the player if they were honest in the past, nor could an NPC steal an item from the player, etc.").

"I'd say the "Radiant AI" system, and the NPC life. It's something no one has ever tried on this scale, and we're just starting to see how powerful it is, and how we can translate those NPC behaviors into meaningful gameplay."
Todd Howard

Sounds cool, too bad it sucks. To review briefly for people with link-clicking phobias: NPCs walk around, go to work, to taverns, back home, to sleep, etc. They stop and chat throwing random lines at each other. It was supposed to add a degree of realism, but somehow Gothic games did a MUCH better job there. Maybe the devil was in the details. I've never seen an Oblivion blacksmith doing something, he/she was just standing there, while a Gothic blacksmith was actually making swords, going through the full sword-making cycle, forging, cooling, sharpening blades. There are ships in Oblivion and sailors walk to and from ships, but they never DO anything, but fake activities. Overall, 5-year old Gothic did a much better job creating an immersive world with seemingly alive people than what Bethesda did today, so sadly RAI is neither revolutionary nor evolutionary.

:party:
 
BenKenobi said:
Bringing Gothic anywhere near TES is like comparing Millenium Falcon to Wright's Flyer.
Nope. The subject used here is fully applicable. TES claims a proper use of AI with their own daily schedule and needs, but still fall short of what Gothic did more than a decade before Skyrim came out (I think skyrim is the first TES with true idle AI, given that I only remember skyrim having labourers actually working). Gothic was ironically one of those RPG that was fun as hell to play with its clunky, but RP wise fair combat system that got worse when they casualized it.
 
Back
Top Bottom