SP - Battles & Sieges Fallback order does not work properly

[Terco_Viejo]

The "fallback" order is executed unsatisfactorily.

It is not conceivable that in an action to push back the position of the unit, that unit is turning its back on the enemy when carrying it out.
These days its action of fallback (backpedal) and retreat (rout) is exactly the same; and it should not be like that.

As I understand it (maybe other users share other opinions) this order must perform going back in block so that unit never turn it back on a potential enemy, making use of the backpedal all members of the group.

On the other hand, the retreat itself establishes an escape from the action to carry out a real escape or pretend a "tactical" feigned retreat.

We should be able to retrieve the procedure (my opinion) of the classic order "fall back 10 paces" for this occasion.

 

[Fortnight]

This is likely a bug or an oversight, I can't imagine that TW would consciously removing the 'fall back' command.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This is likely a bug or an oversight, I can't imagine that TW would consciously removing the 'fall back' command.

It is curious, because if we review the first videos we find that by back-positioning the unit manually, the bots always do it without losing the facing towards the enemy.

 

[Nordous]

b0.3.4

Retreat command didn’t work properly for me many times, especially when being pincered - my troops just ran straight into the embrace of death amidst one of the pincering squads.

There is also a distance when there seems to be no point of retreating. The troops closest to the enemy turn and fight valiantly, seemingly covering the retreat of their comrades. It often feels like a failed retreat since most of the squad simply gets caught and slaughtered. This is debatable, but most of the light infantry, I think, would survive better if they expose their backs to the risk of getting hit and just ran, since their movement speed is superior. As for the heavy infantry, I’d rather left this mechanic as is though.

 

[brkhnzn]

Good analyze. I hope Taleworlds solution it. We don't want to see useless command.

 

[Nordous]

In b0.5.2 it's still kind of wierd. Will try to test for more details.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

The "fallback" order is STILL executed unsatisfactorily.

 

[panicFire]

Sorry for dredging it up again but I feel this should be brought to attention yet again.
You're right fallback and retreat are very similar(heck it's so useless you can get the same effect with move to position command), so at least for fallback command they shouldn't show their back to the enemies. In case of square and circle they should face outwards of the formation while retreating.
@Dejan any possibility of bringing this up?

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Sorry for dredging it up again but I feel this should be brought to attention yet again.
You're right fallback and retreat are very similar(heck it's so useless you can get the same effect with move to position command), so at least for fallback command they shouldn't show their back to the enemies. In case of square and circle they should face outwards of the formation while retreating.
@Dejan any possibility of bringing this up?

I really appreciate the necro ?.

Recently in another thread I shared a comparative video in which I made reference to this problem that still exists nowadays. I guess it's legitimate for me to share it here...

 

[panicFire]

Looks like a few of them fallback properly but then again it must be the combat ai in effect.
Btw love your ultimate mounts and feel the hit mod!

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Looks like a few of them fallback properly but then again it must be the combat ai in effect.
Btw love your ultimate mounts and feel the hit mod!

It is curious that being Warband a title with a much less powerful engine than Bannerlord, the bots act much more efficiently in these situations (imho) than those of Bannerlord. No doubt, Ai problem... I don't know if it's a design issue or a bug; I personally hope™ it's the latter.

Thank you very much for testing my little tweaks, much appreciated .

 

[panicFire]

It is curious that being Warband a title with a much less powerful engine than Bannerlord, the bots act much more efficiently in these situations (imho) than those of Bannerlord. No doubt, Ai problem... I don't know if it's a design issue or a bug; I personally hope™ it's the latter.

True. If it wasn't for the combat, I would rather play warband with some native enhancer mods than bannerlord if it wasn't for the combat. Bannerlord should have been way better than warband+ native plus mods but at the current state, it's not.Lets just hope it gets better by the end of EA.
Back on topic, I hope any Dev or community manager gives some confirmation that they're aware of this issue and clarify if it's a bug or intended design.

Thank you very much for testing my little tweaks, much appreciated .

Very amusing how a few tweaks can improve combat so much!
Those camels finally look like something the horses will be terrified of.(Wish someone added a horse scare mechanic xD)

 

[Terco_Viejo]

True. If it wasn't for the combat, I would rather play warband with some native enhancer mods than bannerlord if it wasn't for the combat. Bannerlord should have been way better than warband+ native plus mods but at the current state, it's not.Lets just hope it gets better by the end of EA.
Back on topic, I hope any Dev or community manager gives some confirmation that they're aware of this issue and clarify if it's a bug or intended design.


Very amusing how a few tweaks can improve combat so much!
Those camels finally look like something the horses will be terrified of.(Wish someone added a horse scare mechanic xD)

Technically they are aware of this because I am sure that M. Arda communicated it to the team back in 2019 (alfa-beta closed period) and Iirc that with Dejan I have also discussed this in post release period.

A few small tweaks can definitely do a lot... yes, that's true. To give you an example... although today it would have been more polished if Taleworlds had been willing to continue testing, mainly Silen together with a reduced number of players improved MP combat with a battery of small tweaks that nowadays in my eyes and in the eyes of many made a real difference and became a milestone within the Community.

I'm really glad you enjoy these mounted combat tweaks. Thank you once again .