Failing at Melee from horseback

[Honved]

I recently picked up Warband, after well over 1000 hours of original M&B, and probably close to the same time spend with a handful of overhaul mods for it (TLD, Star Wars Conquest, 1257: Middle Europe, etc.).  No problems with ranged combat in either game, but my reflexes aren't what they were 40 years ago, so I've never been great at melee combat in M&B.  Now, with Warband, I'm running into the problem that I have NO control over my melee attacks while riding.  The character is randomly swinging a sword to the right, left, or overhead, pivoting back and forth randomly in the seat, even though I've got the sword drawn back for an attack to the one side and am riding straight ahead.  Basically, 2/3 of my attacks are in completely different directions than the one the target is in.  How do you control the attack direction for more than a second or two as you approach the target?

Lance attacks aren't going any better.  My character rides toward the target at full speed over slightly undulating terrain, then abruptly raises the lance to an upright position about 5-10 feet short of the target.  Do I need higher polearm skills, better riding skills, a stronger horse, or a perfectly flat plain?

While I loved M&B, so far Warband has been more of an annoyance than a form of entertainment.  If not for all of the added kingdom management features, I'd abandon it immediately and stick with the older game.

 

[theDonut]

2 reasons as for your couch not working:

-The couched lance always cancels in about 8 seconds since you lower the weapon.
-If your speed goes low enough your couch will be cancelled.

 

[Muzzle C]

Just in case check your settings. There are two options which might give you headache.
Those are:
-Control attack direction
-Lance control

 

[Honved]

-The couched lance always cancels in about 8 seconds since you lower the weapon.

That would explain it, with me typically setting the lance about 10 seconds before impact.  There was no time limit in original M&B, so you could couch the lance as soon as you built up speed, and maintain it all the way to the target.  I was well aware of the speed cutoff, but found it frustrating that my character would raise the lance right before impact on practically any type of terrain.

The sword issues are a different problem.

 

[Shemaforash]

-The couched lance always cancels in about 8 seconds since you lower the weapon.

That would explain it, with me typically setting the lance about 10 seconds before impact.  There was no time limit in original M&B, so you could couch the lance as soon as you built up speed, and maintain it all the way to the target.  I was well aware of the speed cutoff, but found it frustrating that my character would raise the lance right before impact on practically any type of terrain.

The sword issues are a different problem.

Not sure how to interpret your sword situation, but generally you want to use side swings while on horseback

Changing your couch lance setting in gameplay from Automatic to Manual is how you take control of it yourself, that way you can couch it closer to targets.
Cool tip: Couch lance damage slowly deteriorates during the length of the couch lance, and damage is strongest in the beginning. This can be the difference between you killing or not killing that high tier target

 

[Roccoflipside]

-The couched lance always cancels in about 8 seconds since you lower the weapon.

That would explain it, with me typically setting the lance about 10 seconds before impact.  There was no time limit in original M&B, so you could couch the lance as soon as you built up speed, and maintain it all the way to the target.  I was well aware of the speed cutoff, but found it frustrating that my character would raise the lance right before impact on practically any type of terrain.

The sword issues are a different problem.

When you start your swing, obviously you move mouse left/right/etc. to start the attack. Let's say you move the mouse right, so you prepare a swing from the right, but then move the mouse slightly back to the left (to look straight as you said). At this point the strike is still coming from the right, but your character will transfer the strike to the left side of the horse. So basically, if you want to swing from the right towards the right side of your horse, you have to make sure that the camera angle is still on the "right" side of the horse. I believe there is some sort of "manual melee control" while on horseback in the options, but I can't quite remember how it actually effects the game.  Hope that helped.

-The couched lance always cancels in about 8 seconds since you lower the weapon.

That would explain it, with me typically setting the lance about 10 seconds before impact.  There was no time limit in original M&B, so you could couch the lance as soon as you built up speed, and maintain it all the way to the target.  I was well aware of the speed cutoff, but found it frustrating that my character would raise the lance right before impact on practically any type of terrain.

The sword issues are a different problem.

Not sure how to interpret your sword situation, but generally you want to use side swings while on horseback

Changing your couch lance setting in gameplay from Automatic to Manual is how you take control of it yourself, that way you can couch it closer to targets.
Cool tip: Couch lance damage slowly deteriorates during the length of the couch lance, and damage is strongest in the beginning. This can be the difference between you killing or not killing that high tier target

I never knew that, that's quite important

 

[Orion]

When you start your swing, obviously you move mouse left/right/etc. to start the attack. Let's say you move the mouse right, so you prepare a swing from the right, but then move the mouse slightly back to the left (to look straight as you said). At this point the strike is still coming from the right, but your character will transfer the strike to the left side of the horse. So basically, if you want to swing from the right towards the right side of your horse, you have to make sure that the camera angle is still on the "right" side of the horse. I believe there is some sort of "manual melee control" while on horseback in the options, but I can't quite remember how it actually effects the game.  Hope that helped.

This sounds like the problem you're having, Honved. If you ready an attack by holding left-click and move your mouse on horseback, your character will switch the side of the horse they're swinging on to the side that the camera is looking towards. If you ready a swing (any direction) and look to the right of your horse, then your character will attempt to make that swing on the right side of your horse. If you're looking straight ahead and slightly wiggle your mess left and right while holding a swing, you'll get the behavior you initially described.

Selecting your swing direction should be the same as on foot, and governed by your attack direction control scheme (mouse, inverse mouse, or movement keys).

 

[Honved]

The problem is not in choosing which side of the horse to attack toward, but of maintaining that direction for more than a few seconds.  This might be solvable by not drawing back for a swing quite so far in advance.  In original M&B, you could pull back your sword or mace for a strike, and ride half way across the map before releasing the swing.  Apparently not so in Warband, as your character will quickly begin turning left and right in the saddle with every bump and vibration of the mouse (probably considering them "swings").  By the time I reach the opponent, my character has changed facing at least 5-10 times, even though I'm TRYING to hold the mouse steady and only make minimal changes in the horse's direction to stay on target.

This is all due to changes in the combat system between original M&B and Warband, and I can't say that I like them.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

If you don't have an unreasonably high sensitivity then this is either a flaw in your mouse or you're holding a side attack while trying to look directly down the middle of the horse causing you to switch positions when you move slightly to the left or right.

 

[Orion]

^ OGL is right. That's very erratic behavior and not normal for Warband by any means.

 

[pera]

Make sure it isn't set as "by inverse mouse movement" in the settings next to control attack direction

 

[Orion]

Attack direction shouldn't be changing if he's holding LMB, but camera position will change the side of the horse you are swinging on. It sounds to me like he's just not accustomed to the way the camera orientation is affecting his swings. If his attack direction is changing while he's holding LMB, then somehow he's cancelling swings without pressing RMB. If he's somehow triggering swings while holding LMB, then something is interrupting his mouse input to the game and causing the swings to be released prematurely. Everything else is just camera orientation.

There are three orientations for swinging from horseback: left, center, and right. If you hold a swing while looking left of your horse your character will lean left in the saddle. Drag your mouse to the right and you'll see your character "pop" their weapon above the horse's head. This is center. If you continue dragging right, your character will lean to the right.

 

[Firunien]

You gotta use your horses movement to position your hit, while at the same time keep the camera at the same position relativ to the horse.

 

[Honved]

Attack direction shouldn't be changing if he's holding LMB, but camera position will change the side of the horse you are swinging on. It sounds to me like he's just not accustomed to the way the camera orientation is affecting his swings. If his attack direction is changing while he's holding LMB, then somehow he's cancelling swings without pressing RMB. If he's somehow triggering swings while holding LMB, then something is interrupting his mouse input to the game and causing the swings to be released prematurely. Everything else is just camera orientation.

There are three orientations for swinging from horseback: left, center, and right. If you hold a swing while looking left of your horse your character will lean left in the saddle. Drag your mouse to the right and you'll see your character "pop" their weapon above the horse's head. This is center. If you continue dragging right, your character will lean to the right.

The usual situation is that I draw back the weapon for a slash on the right side of my horse on the way to the target, and before I reach the target, my character has pivoted from side to side in the saddle several times without taking the swing (LMB still held).  When my character reaches the opponent, there's about a 33% chance that the attack will be aimed to the left side of the horse, 33% that it will end up with him/her about to make an overhead chop directly in front of the horse, and 33% that it will be pointed in the direction it was originally intended.  In original M&B it never changed unless you released the LMB, hit the RMB, or took a hit.

You've got two controls to deal with, the mouse to direct the swing and the w,a,s,d keys to guide the horse.  Once the weapon is pulled back, I attempt to keep the mouse steady, and make corrections to the horse's movement as needed, but if the mouse is what's controlling the character's rotation in the saddle, then it must be re-centering at some point (with every little waver being interpreted as a change of facing), and may possibly need to be dragged even further to the right.  I'll have to do some more experimenting with it over the weekend, but at this point I'm back to playing original M&B (and a serious time-sink Paradox title) because Warband has been nothing but frustration.

 

[Roccoflipside]

It definitely seems to me that, by trying to look 'straight ahead', you're leaving yourself open to this issue. As you said, keeping the mouse farther right to attack from the right would probably do the trick. Out of curiosity, did you check the options for fighting on horseback? As I said earlier, there is an option which turns the camera and your character's facing with the horse every time you have a swing readied. It may be that, rather than moving the mouse, you turn your horse left/right to keep up with the enemy, and this causes your swing to switch to the other side, which could be remedied by turning this option on.

 

[Honved]

It may be that, rather than moving the mouse, you turn your horse left/right to keep up with the enemy, and this causes your swing to switch to the other side, which could be remedied by turning this option on.

Possible.  I'll have to check on that.

As it now stands, my character apparently has no connection to the horse in terms of facing, and often ends up sitting backwards in the saddle (wait, where did my horse's head go?) while I struggle to figure out why my horse is moving backwards as I accelerate.  So far, I've found no "lock to saddle" option of any sort, to prevent the character from pivoting more than about + or - 45 degrees while riding.  That was a problem in original M&B and apparently still exists in WB.  Combat is already unintuitive enough for me, being left-handed (the character does the mirror opposite of what I would do in real life), and the funky controls just make it worse.

 

[Caps]

It may be that, rather than moving the mouse, you turn your horse left/right to keep up with the enemy, and this causes your swing to switch to the other side, which could be remedied by turning this option on.

Possible.  I'll have to check on that.

As it now stands, my character apparently has no connection to the horse in terms of facing, and often ends up sitting backwards in the saddle (wait, where did my horse's head go?) while I struggle to figure out why my horse is moving backwards as I accelerate.  So far, I've found no "lock to saddle" option of any sort, to prevent the character from pivoting more than about + or - 45 degrees while riding.  That was a problem in original M&B and apparently still exists in WB.  Combat is already unintuitive enough for me, being left-handed (the character does the mirror opposite of what I would do in real life), and the funky controls just make it worse.

lol  git gud

 

[Shemaforash]

Wanted to upload a little single player clip but I still don't really understand what your problem is...

 

[Honved]

lol  git gud

That's why my characters end up with 300+ in archery skill.  They "git gud" at what they CAN do, not what they fail at repeatedly.  This is no problem during a siege, when the character is off the horse, and between bow and sword (or mace), he usually racks up double-digit kills.  Put him on a horse, however, and he's effectively limited to archery (picking the "fleas" off the flanks of his Companions' horses), because he can't even figure out which side of the horse to swing a sword from, and it's even more screwed up from my perspective because he's using what I would consider to be the wrong hand.

The worst part is that it wasn't a problem in original M&B, and it may be ingrained habits that I picked up while playing that game which are causing the current issues.

 

[Caps]

lol  git gud

That's why my characters end up with 300+ in archery skill.  They "git gud" at what they CAN do, not what they fail at repeatedly.  This is no problem during a siege, when the character is off the horse, and between bow and sword (or mace), he usually racks up double-digit kills.  Put him on a horse, however, and he's effectively limited to archery (picking the "fleas" off the flanks of his Companions' horses), because he can't even figure out which side of the horse to swing a sword from, and it's even more screwed up from my perspective because he's using what I would consider to be the wrong hand.

The worst part is that it wasn't a problem in original M&B, and it may be ingrained habits that I picked up while playing that game which are causing the current issues.

i didnt mean your character i meant you