Faction's specialization in terms of military?

[hohyss]

Hey guys. I just started playing PoP 2.1 and I am really enjoying the mod.

One dramatic difference I noticed was that all factions are pretty much evenly matched. ( Though I do notice

distinctions, differences in unit strength is not as big as  as vanilla )

So here's my question

So what are the advantage/disadvantage of each faction's unit in PoP ( 'in general', in terms of cavalry, infantry, archer )

 

[ArakDemonBlade]

As near as I can tell:

Fierdsvain: Their Huscarls are evil. Theoretically all of their infantry is but the Huscarls really take the cake.

Ravenstern: Really good ground archers.

The Empire: Not sure, but I think its just their ground forces period. The They have some nice crossbowmen and a good variety of high tier infantry (both pikemen and javelin chucking swordsmen).

Sarleon: Far as I can tell: Swadia all over again.

D'shar: More painful versions of the Khergit: horses everywhere.

 

[Leam]

The Empire: Not sure, but I think its just their ground forces period. The They have some nice crossbowmen and a good variety of high tier infantry (both pikemen and javelin chucking swordsmen).

That reminds me, are legionaries and gladiators still tagged as ranged troops in this version? It always bothered me in 1.2

 

[faigulla]

There are much less horses when compared to the Khergit: the D'Shar have a line of infantry, their top tier is the D'Shar Assassin, and they also have a line of foot archers, which are not quite up to par with other foot archers like those from the Ravenstern, for example.

 

[kaeldragor]

The Empire: Not sure, but I think its just their ground forces period. The They have some nice crossbowmen and a good variety of high tier infantry (both pikemen and javelin chucking swordsmen).

That reminds me, are legionaries and gladiators still tagged as ranged troops in this version? It always bothered me in 1.2

They are - otherwise due to native limitations, they may not end up with ranged weapons.  It's a pity about the tactical impact, but otherwise their gear comes out wrong.

Think of it this way:  Now in pitched battles, you have some heavies mixed in with the weak archers to protect them from flanking moves by the enemy (though since enemy AI is nearly non-existent, these usually only happen on accident.)

 

[saxondragon]

Hey guys. I just started playing PoP 2.1 and I am really enjoying the mod.

One dramatic difference I noticed was that all factions are pretty much evenly matched. ( Though I do notice

distinctions, differences in unit strength is not as big as  as vanilla )

So here's my question

So what are the advantage/disadvantage of each faction's unit in PoP ( 'in general', in terms of cavalry, infantry, archer )

Let me share you my theory of what I was trying to achieve, and then how the execution of that theory, the other players can attest to better than I can.  I have included an estimated level of difficulty to play and win with this culture.

I basically formulated a concept for each faction.

Sarleon: The standard Medieval Kingdom, fairly uniform in their gear, Good high tier Knights, an evolution of the Old Pendor Kingdom but not quite as good.  Addition of Halberd upper tier troops and longbowmen make them average in the field and just above average in holding castles and average in taking castles.  Estimated difficulty: Average

Fierdsvain: A transitional cultured Kingdom roughly patterned after the Danes.  Weak cavalry, below average archers, very strong infantry.  Below average in the field, especially against mounted opponents, superior holding and taking castles. Estimated Difficulty: Above Average

D'Shar: Another transitional cultured Kingdom roughly patterned after the Mongols.  Very fast mobile cavalry with good ranged weapons, and medium infantry with polearms.  Great in the field against others, usually turns the field battles into a swirling mess which negates most infantry advantages.  Below average in holding and taking castles due to lighter armor.  Estimated Difficulty: Hard

Empire: The third transitional culture, a unique concept blending a Medieval Kingdom with Rome.  Very uniform in their armor and culture.  Probably one of the most difficult positions to master as once you become adept at how to maneuver the units on the battlefield they become good in pitched battles.  Average in pitched battles, but have below average cavalry.  They are above average at taking and holding castles. Estimated Difficulty: Above Average

Ravenstern: I modeled this after what I would say is an emerging kingdom with independent lords.  Great archers, good cavalry and average infantry.  High variance in the look and feel of the troops to reflect the independent nature of the cutlure.  Average in pitched battles, above average in taking and holding castles. Estimated Difficulty: Average

Best,

Saxondragon

 

[Misguided]

The Empire: Not sure, but I think its just their ground forces period. The They have some nice crossbowmen and a good variety of high tier infantry (both pikemen and javelin chucking swordsmen).

That reminds me, are legionaries and gladiators still tagged as ranged troops in this version? It always bothered me in 1.2

It doesn't bother me at all.  I have a line of mixed Legionnaires and Crossbows.  Between the javelins and bolts they simply demolish things.  They don't have the quick-kill ability of a line of Rangers, but those crossbows never stop shooting.  Ever.

And if/when stuff manages to make it up to melee range, they have Legionnaires to deal with.  Because they are all considered archers, no one gets in the other's way.  You don't have to be careful not to position your infantry in the way of your archers.  They're all one butt-kicking line. 

Just for fun I've been picking up refugees/farmers along the way and turning them into grey archers as well.  Mmmmm.



-Misguided

 

[Leam]

Uhm, i might give the empire a try then. I've been avoiding them for a while because of the legionaries. By the way, are Immortals considered infantry or ranged then? I never tried em in 1.2

 

[Misguided]

ya know what?  I don't know.  I BELIEVE they are considered archers as well.  But I've never actually made one.  I only just recently started playing Empire.  Got tired of doing my usual Ranger/Axeman or pure cavalry parties.

-Misguided

 

[skitarii]

Pendor:  Excellent infantry, archers, and I think their cavalry are pretty good also.

Pendor Men-at-arms are really good assault infantry, although in a duel with huscarls, they'll get their asses handed to them.  Oh yes, even berserkers can hand them something, but they can probably beat up halberdiers and legionnaires.  Not sure about immortals though. 

Pendor Footknights are like even better versions of the Men-at-arms.

Pendor Greys/ Silvermists can probably match/outmatch Ravenstern archers, but they're still slightly inferior to Noldor Warriors.  However, they will aid you greatly in taking castles.

Pendor Knights are probably the equivalent of Sarleon knights, although they can be upgraded to something better.

 

[Wu-long]

Pendor:  Excellent infantry, archers, and I think their cavalry are pretty good also.

Pendor Men-at-arms are really good assault infantry, although in a duel with huscarls, they'll get their asses handed to them.  Oh yes, even berserkers can hand them something, but they can probably beat up halberdiers and legionnaires.  Not sure about immortals though. 

Pendor Footknights are like even better versions of the Men-at-arms.

Pendor Greys/ Silvermists can probably match/outmatch Ravenstern archers, but they're still slightly inferior to Noldor Warriors.  However, they will aid you greatly in taking castles.

Pendor Knights are probably the equivalent of Sarleon knights, although they can be upgraded to something better.

Pendor Knights are some what better then Sarleon ones yeah I think only Chapter Order Knights can hold there ground aginest the Noldors .

 

[Maeglin Dubh]

I don't like Pendor knights. Too many lances and shields. I find lances on AI troopers to be impractical, especially if they also have shields.

My next run-through, I'm building a force of Pendor Foot Knights and taking a city, then building an Ebon Fist chapterhouse.

 

[Wu-long]

I don't like Pendor knights. Too many lances and shields. I find lances on AI troopers to be impractical, especially if they also have shields.

My next run-through, I'm building a force of Pendor Foot Knights and taking a city, then building an Ebon Fist chapterhouse.

Really? I love the Pendor Knights I hate all other lance and shield but with them i feel safer and more capable for some reason

 

[skitarii]

Actually the AI can sometimes deliver the infamous couched lance instagib when you're not careful.  You and/or your allies are susceptible to it.

 

[Maeglin Dubh]

Actually the AI can sometimes deliver the infamous couched lance instagib when you're not careful.  You and/or your allies are susceptible to it.

It's true, but usually only if they don't have shields. This is what makes Serpent Cult parties so deadly. Anaconda knights and Serpent Priestesses both have lances, jarid, and no shields.

 

[skitarii]

Exactly....blasted Anaconda knights and non-capturable priestesses.

 

[Durf]

Some questions about Pendor knight chapters here.  I'm not sure what's supposed to be spoilered or not so I'm going to be careful.

Spoiler

Knights of the Clarion Call are horse archers with heavy armor and good melee weapons like Noldor Cavalry, but not as well geared.  Does anyone know what the specialties of the knights of the Griffon, Falcon, and Unicorn are?  It seems like you can make a chapter for Clarion Call, Falcon and Unicorn without a qualis gem, so I'm assuming that griffon is superior.  Does investing a qualis gem to get Griffon provide them with better gear to justify that expense?
Also, is the foot knight chapter better geared for castle sieges/defense than the mounted knight chapters?

 

[Maeglin Dubh]

Foot Knight chapters are, by definition, more efficient because mounted troopers cost more.
In sieges, horses don't exist, so you get more bang for your buck by using foot knight chapters in attack and defense.

 

[Misguided]

Well that, and the Ebony Order is teh OMGWTFBBQROFLCOPTERWINBUTTON!11!!11two *



Not to put too fine a point on it.



-Misguided




* As stated in the vernacular. 

 

[Maeglin Dubh]

Well that, and the Ebony Order is teh OMGWTFBBQROFLCOPTERWINBUTTON!11!!11two *



Not to put too fine a point on it.



-Misguided




* As stated in the vernacular. 

Curse you! I still haven't gotten any, due to the OMGWTFBBQLOLOLOLSucktitude of Pendor Squires and their uncanny ability to die long before I get anywhere near foot knights.