Faction tier lists?

Currently viewing this thread:

flashn00b

Regular
Probably inappropriate for me to order factions from best to worst like they're characters in a fighting game, but i think tier lists are probably a good way to get a short summary of which faction is the best and which is the worst. How would you order the six factions in the game from best to worst and why you think that your ranking of the tiers is the way it is?

To start off the thread, I guess I'll start with my list

A+
Vlandia
Probably the best faction in the game, though I will say that the Empire is a fairly close second. Sure, they don't have a javelin infantry, though the Volgier's throwing axes can fill a similar role. What they DO have is a powerful peasant unit that can be played as a semi-decent shock troop unit with Improved Armor and Billhook, though the pitchfork is also an option for stopping cavalry charges (or dealing mounted damage yourself if you can steal a horse). The fact that they have crossbows definitely makes it so that they have one of the most powerful archers in the game and in fact, I'd likely argue that the Sharpshooter is more or less overpowered compared to other heavy archer units in the game.

Their selection of infantry and cavalry are also pretty good to the point where I actually felt kinda bad for not playing the Vanguard and Knight for a very long time until recently. Their infantry selection is probably one of the better ones in the game too, with the Volgier being decently durable for a 120 cost unit while dealing a huge chunk of damage themselves with their default voulge. In fact, I feel like the Voulge is powerful enough to such a degree that the Two Handed Sword and Sword and Shield perks might actually need buffs to make the sacrificing of that +9 armor worth it. The Sergeant on the other hand, I think i'm acquiring a taste for him cuz I have been pretty guilty of overlooking the bastard sword for a long time and for his damage output, durability and cost, I'd say he's worth it, especially since you don't need to concern yourself too much about about dying without scoring a kill as Vlandia. Even so, the Peasant Levy is still powerful enough for late joiners to show off their skills.

A
Empire
With the various balance changes that have occurred throughout Bannerlord's lifespan, I'd say that overall,the Empire has elevated themselves to a better position than the last few patches, though players who have mained the Menavlion Infantry may not be too pleased with the changes. Still, I think the changes are positive to such a degree that I think they aren't too far from Vlandia's position as the best faction.

The main reason for this is the Recruit buffs. Now that they have a starting shield, they are far less susceptible to ranged damage while also being able to return fire against archers themselves. The recent buffs to throwing weapons also do a huge favour for them, too. Lastly, the introduction to the Pugio makes them probably one of the better peasant units in the games, which I think helps compensate for the nerfs applied to the Menavlion Infantry.

And yes, I will admit that playing the Menavlion Infantry isn't a pleasant experience, though I find that the balance changes to all Menavlions are more or less of a stealth buff for Coursers, where the slower swinging speed can be useful in lining up a mounted polearm swing... at least in my personal opinion. So i guess if you can find a stray horse that got caught in the middle of random debris, I guess the Menavlion Infantry can make for a decent horse thief if nothing else. Otherwise, you're probably better off saving money on a courser or Legionary if you want to use a two-handed weapon on foot. Speaking of the Legionary, they're comparable to the Sergeant. Heavy armor, bastard sword, 1-handed spear with lots of reach.

Light archers I guess are mostly comparable to what other factions have barring the Sturgian Hunter and Vlandian Ranger, whom i'll get to later. The Palatine Guard on the other hand, I guess got hit pretty hard with the menavlion nerf too (in fact, has their own menav that's worse than what the infantry and courser get) but as far as ranged damage goes, I like how TaleWorlds has handled the Imperial take on the crossbow. Damage is barely an improvement from the Vlandian's light crossbowmen, though they make up for it with lightning fast reloading. The Heavy Mace or Small Shield also helps in self-defense.

Anyways, uhhh.. Coursers. They're probably the main reason why I rank the Empire so closely to Vlandia, cuz this is probably THE best Light Cavalry in the game thanks to the Cavalry Menavlion.

B
Factions listed below require more effort to win with than Vlandia and the Empire, but I think they're still worth playing even if they are being matched against the A tiers

Aserai
I will always feel hurt by the removal of the Tribal Warrior's javelins, though the changes to the Skirmisher definitely help elevate Aserai to the point where I'd consider them the best B tier. Even so, I do agree that the Tribal Warrior's in a fairly decent position thanks to the recent buffs it has received. Haven't had too much experience going up against cavalry with the Short Spear + default shield, though I feel like the perk selections are adequate enough that I might be willing to overlook the 100 point cost.

Skirmisher, I think is in an awkward position. Not in a bad way and in fact, I think they're probably the best javelin infantry in the game. However, WHY they're the best is kind of janky if lack of a better word. Pretty much, the Jereed perk 2 selection is a non-option which frees up the choice between an axe and a stronger sword, since you can drop your Extra Javelins quiver, toss a jereed and fill up your quiver before creating a new stack of jereeds. I'd argue that the Skirmisher has probably the best starting shields out of all the different javelin users, which can make them a deadly counter to archers especially if they choose to exploit the refilling of javelin quivers as I mentioned earlier.

As far as shock troops go, I guess the Guard is pretty average. Haven't really been a fan of how they handled compared to other factions, though underestimating them is usually a death sentence still. If that makes any sense at all.

Archers, like I mentioned earlier, are pretty average throughout most factions, though I will admit annoyance to the fact that the Veteran's Heavy Mace seems to be inferior to what the light archer has. This is especially apparent when you consider that the Aserai doesn't have their own Heavy Infantryman.

Havent had too much experience with the Mamluke, though I'd probably say that the Beduin is one of the better light cavalry units in the game. Sure, he's no Courser or Khuzait Lancer, though I feel like the Camel is one of the better implementations in the game as those seem to be far less susceptible to being reared by the environment, which can make an agile rider far more deadly than other light cavalry units in the game.

Battania
Probably my most favourite faction in the game, with their basic peasant already having access to a heavy mace while pikes can make life difficult for enemy cavalry. I can see why people want the targe to get buffed due to its fairly low coverage, though between other peasants and the Peasant Levy, I think i've seen my fair share of success as the Clan Warrior. However, I feel like the best way to buff the targe would be to give it the boss-mounted spike to increase its shove damage and change its damage type to piercing cuz historic accounts of the targe's usage is that it was as much a weapon as it was a means to deflect sword blows. Moving on.. uhh....

Savages are probably one of two reasons why Battania's my favourite faction in the game. Yeah, i will miss them having proper javelins, though the fact that their starting weapon is a bastard sword makes them a very solid pick IMO. Would I say that they're better than Volgiers? Probably cuz speed and damage seems to be the deciding factor of a melee engagement, and the Falx when wielded 2-handed is definitely one of the faster weapons in the game, with some pretty high damage output too. Wildling is kind of difficult for me to justify playing as since the Ranger already feels like he's meant to be played like a skirmisher-type unit (albeit without a shield) and I've no comment on the Oathsworn as there hasn't been much incentive for me to do so.

Ranger's the second reason why Battania's my favourite faction in the game. As far as ranged damage goes, they probably have the worst bow in the game, which I guess is fine cuz the amount of damage you can do at medium range is still significant enough to land you an assist if not a kill. However, the Two-Handed Axe perk seems to offer exceptional melee damage that other light archers won't ever get to enjoy. In fact, I think i actually see more success as the Ranger than I do the Fiann, though his heavy armor, longbow and two-handed sword do make for a deadlier foe at longer ranges. In fact, I think the Fiann's part of the reason why I've neglected the Oathsworn.

As for their weakness, I think i can agree with everyone's assessment that they've got the worst mounted game in this Mount&Blade game. They are good at killing horses to make up for it, i find!

C+ (B-?)
Khuzait
They seem to have a fair share of problems that I find are difficult to overlook, but as of 1.5.7, they're actually playable in matchups against anyone other than Sturgia.

Rabble still feels like the class to play if you want to die repeatedly just to spawn as a more expensive unit, though I think there's less reason to keep doing that until you can afford to pick the Lancer. In fact, the Spear Infantry I find is actually worth the 130 point cost.

Though they're like the only medium infantry in the game, the Spear Infantry has enough armor that I think most players can feel comfortable picking the first two Perk 1 options. Also, they now have a basic melee weapon in the form of the Ild after 11 months of Early Access(the same sword you get if you pick the Sword perk as Rabble). What this means is that if you pick Throwing Spear, you'll actually have a weapon that you can use to defend yourself when thrusting your spear isn't an option.

Steppe Bow is fairly standard, and the Khan's Guard hasn't really changed too much to positively or negatively affect the playability of the Khuzait faction.

As for Cavalry, I think Lancer continues to remain as the only horseback unit worth picking IMO, since there isn't much incentive to pick the Nomad.

D
Sturgia
I guess as of 1.5.7, you can actually win games as Sturgia, though the amount of effort required to do so is exceptionally disproportionate compared to other factions in the game. In fact, they have very few units that are actually worth playing IMO. I actually wonder if TaleWorlds has a specific vision in mind for multiplayer that involves Sturgia being the worst faction in the game.

As i've mentioned in an earlier thread, too many of their units are just inferior versions of what other factions have. The Warrior comes off to me as needing to 5v1 a 120-130 cost unit in order to have any chance of killing them, Berskerer is still just "Savage but worse" and you'd have to be a masochist to pick the Varyag, who's actually one of the few good units of Sturgia.

The Sturgian Warrior i think really only exist to punish players who died as a Brigand or Raider rather than actually being a worthwhile economic pick for late joiners. At least with the peasants of other factions, I feel like it's possible to overcome the disadvantage of weapons and armor at a higher skill level, though I feel like this is not the case with the Sturgian Warrior. If you manage to waste all your lives as a unit that actually costs points to spawn as, you're better off leaving the server.

Worthwhile unit No. 1: The Brigand. I'd say he's not as good as the Skirmisher, though I'd argue that he's the faction's saving grace thanks to the Ash Throwing Spear, which in itself is a serviceable thrusting weapon since it has about as much reach as a light lance. So, if you want to kill cavalry as a Sturgian, this is probably one of the better units to do that... Assuming you didn't throw your one-hit-kill stick because it one-hit-kills when thrown.

Worthwhile unit No. 2: The Raider. The Kontos is a force to be reckoned with, though I think i've been spoiled way too much by the Khuzait Lancer and Imperial Courser to use thrusting weapons effectively. Also, the Looted Horse feels like a welcome buff since you can RNG your way to a Charger horse. Even so, I think the playability of Sturgia can be improved upon by adding camels to the random horse pool.

Worthwhile unit No. 3: Varyag. Even though i'd list him as a worthwhile unit, the punishment for dying as a Brigand is far too great that it's hard to justify picking a 160 cost unit. With that said, the Bastard Axe is definitely a force to be reckoned with though you'd have to be very rich or very brave to pick such a costly unit knowing that you won't live long enough to get enough kills/assists to break even.

Anyways, now that I've listed why the above 3 units are worthwhile, i'll mention why other units are bad.

In most respects, the Berserker is just a worse version of the Savage, with throwing axes and the great axe being what I'd describe as a non-option. Even so, I think the throwing axes could do with a bit of a slight buff since their damage is low enough that I've typically seen 40-50 damage on headshots. Great Axe is probably the Berserker's best bet at competing with shock troops of other factions. Only shock troop that's worse than the Berserker is the Menavlion Infantry, i think.

Hunter: I don't even know where they stand in terms of archery. I think they were trying to do something like the Ranger where they tried to balance him differently? I still don't think TaleWorlds knows what to do with them cuz replacing the 2h axe with the shortsword is a step in the right direction. Not a proper buff, but a step in the right direction. Either way, they're still a worse archer than what other factions have, since there's currently no justifying the 120 point cost vs other archers costing 110.

Good luck ever being able to afford the heavy cavalry.
 
Last edited:

Mushbeast

Knight
I'd put them in the exact same order you did from a TDM perspective. Vlandia and Empire are honestly a little OP and have no real weaknesses - imo the 1h sword and shield should be the Voulgiers default and the Voulge weapon should be at a trade-off for armor.

The Menavlion's for Empire should be completely reworked, either in animation, damage, weapon length or probably all of the above. The pilum that a bunch of their units get now is just overkill too.

As for Sturgia, I feel like the Varyag should be considerably cheaper and have that be their strength. It's the only unit they have that can sort of deal with enemy cavalry but due to his shield he's often susceptible to enemy archer fire. On top of that it'd be nice if their were some decent spears for the cheaper classes too, as once the enemy team has a cavalry force going then there's nothing to stop them as Sturgia. I feel as if that's their designed weakness but it leads to them losing almost every TDM match.

All in all, I think the game would've been better and more interesting if each faction was balanced around unique infantry tactics (ie. a khuzait spearwall, a sturgian shieldwall, or Aserai skirmishers just to name a few) and compositions, rather than compositions that rely on you to play as an archer or cav. Those classes should have been extra support, or filled niche roles rather than being a factions only saving grace in my opinion.
 

Forsee

Veteran
IDK why but I'm always happy to play sturgia. Their shields are great, cav is op and this bow is so smooth and has a great damage.
Next faction I'm happy to play is aserai, skirmishers are still good against cav and this patch the only thing you should do to win is dismount the enemy cav. They also have decent archers and cav and their infantry has billion spawns.
If empire can somehow utilize their menavs they are great as well, especially on close maps.
Xbows are op but I personally don't like them and vlandia overall feels not that great for some reason.
Khuzait is well balanced imo and they both have good cav and good archers, but their infantry seem to have zdps. They have great peasants though.
Battania is unbeatable on Port at Omor cause of their crossfires and overall if you play battania you have to set up a good crossfire, but it suck on a close map.

I'm not really used to this patch yet and it is only my first impression. All factions seem to be ok balanced and if you have something like 3-0 0-3 on a map I'd say it's more about spawns, for example if you have to play battania on a xauna and you have a bad spawn (near the A flag), there's almost nothing you can do
 

Horatius

Sergeant
WBNWVC
I really don't know how the faction balance is at the moment. If you look at BEAST vlandia basically loses if it is not a stomp and khuzait does rather well.

I wouldn't say the factions are balanced but don't exactly know what is not balanced between the factions if you look at BEAST.
 

Forsee

Veteran
I really don't know how the faction balance is at the moment. If you look at BEAST vlandia basically loses if it is not a stomp and khuzait does rather well.

I wouldn't say the factions are balanced but don't exactly know what is not balanced between the factions if you look at BEAST.
I think the game is balanced around cav atm, if a faction can counter cav, it is strong.
Sturgia has great throwing spears and decent archers to kill horses and cav has no space in a fight to kill everyone safely
Battania can set up a crossfire and again cav can't ride safely without taking free shots, but if you can't set up a good crossfire and can't get your archers in a good position, enemy cav will dominate over the battlefield, so that's a bit map related
Khuzait cav is great itself against an enemy cav and their archers either have great bows to dismount or glaives which are again great when it comes to close fight against cav
Aserai have jareeds, but it is not too reliable against heavy cav
Empire has menavs and decent archers, but it is not good enough against 2 2 2 cause most likely you will get counterstriked
Vlandia's xbows are op agaist all kind of infantries and good agaist archers, but when it comes to a close fight against cav there's nothing you can do with xbow, you cannot reload safely and if you miss 2 shots in a row most likely your team will get raped by enemy cav. You can win a fight solo with 2-3 xbow headshots, but if you don't, you lose, and since good cav always aware of you and won't miss a free headshot, it is hard to make decent impact.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I think Khuzait and Vlandia lowest just because they have no skirmisher. Horse archer is not used at all because of BEAST rules, even if it was 90 % of regular cav k/d. Xbow is not enough to save Vlandia. I would think the rest of the factions has OK balance, based on nothing but my brief recollection of results in my head right now.

Non-archer units without shields are not that good expect in the final spawn or something. Some great inf players can make it work, but that is not the norm. Glaive cav is only good if you facing a team you expect to beat anyway, but I am can oncede this if some cav players share their opinion.
 
Last edited:

hoonii

Squire
I think Khuzait and Vlandia lowest just because they have no skirmisher. Horse archer is not used at all because of BEAST rules, even if it was 90 % of regular cav k/d. Xbow is not enough to save Vlandia. I would think the rest of the factions has OK balance, based on nothing but my brief recollection of results in my head right now.

Non-archer units without shields are not that good expect in the final spawn or something. Some great inf players can make it work, but that is not the norm.
I wouldn't ignore vlandian knight.
Also if you consider item drops vlandian light cav is the strongest light cav, again IF they receive drops, pavise-long spear-semi armored horse is christmas come early for cav players imo.
Also forgive my ignorance for I don't play infantry but why is everyone ****ting on vlandian sergeant?
Glaive cav is only good if you facing a team you expect to beat anyway, but I am can oncede this if some cav players share their opinion.
Glaive cav is high risk-not so much rewarding type of thing imo. It has so much killing potential that it spreads to everyone, if you're not careful you will do a lot of friendly fire in melee. Also I find glaive to be super strong for cav v cav because it literally destroys horses, each swing does like 70 damage to heavy armor horses if you know how to hit, not mentioning a slight error from the enemy can cause them to lose their head by a single up swing. Glaive cav can sometimes turn the tides but you need to be very careful of your surroundings and enemy archers.

Also pretty sure that cavalry buff for Khuzait has really changed things around for them(from having the worst heavy cav to having one of the best heavy cav). In my last BEAST match Khuzait stomped Vlandia twice.
 
Also forgive my ignorance for I don't play infantry but why is everyone ****ting on vlandian sergeant?

If we speak about heavy infantry only, the sergeant is alright. He can select from every type of melee weapons, and all of them are pretty damn fast. The problem is about what Vlandia can offer in terms of light/shock infantry, which... just isn't much.

If there's anything that hasn't changed over this past year, it's the fact that cav is still king. While the power of light cav is mostly balanced out with its fragility, heavy cav is still very hard to deal with and usually isn't countered by heavy infantry - firstly, because cavalry has the privilege of choosing the time and place ot engagement and good cav players know how to avoid spears; secondly, because spearmen are vulnerable in a melee fight; and, finally, because, even after the recent buffs to spears, rearing a healthy heavy cav is unlikely to result in its death unless the entire team is focused on bringing it down.

The most efficient counters to heavy cav to date are bows, xbows, and throwing spears. Light javelins and thowing axes do a terrible job at hurting it in a meaningful way unless the thrower gets lucky with his throws. Pila and throwing spears, on the contrary, are feared by cav, as they can heavily damage or even one-shot a heavy horse at close range.

The only two factions that don't have access to throwing spears are Vlandia and Aserai, but Aserai skirmishers can have a six-pack of jareeds, which are decent. That leaves Vlandian infantry with only two options to counter heavy cav: heavy spear infantry and the voulgier. The voulge can rear cav and has decent damage, but it's vulnerable to ranged units and doesn't have the area denial capabilities of pila. Add that to the fact that you can't spawn as the sergeant twice in the first round, and you'll see why Vlandian infantry isn't very popular.

To me, it feels like Vlandia is a solid 2-2-2 faction under the current BEAST limits that has to primarily rely on harrassment with its cav and ridiculous CS:GO xbows.
 
Playing Sturgia always felt like **** for me. Swings are slow, lack range, movement speed are slow, no pike, just boring. You dont feel slippery at all when fighting through swarms of enemy, you feel like a dude holding a refrigerator on his back. Worst shield you can literally get a bolt in the **** while holding it straight. You have to take a guess about Holding it either UP or DOWN, if you hold it down you lose your head and if you hold it up you lose your balls. Since ranged classes are shooting you with AK47 in this game you cant have the reaction time to move it up or down based on the trajectory.
 

flashn00b

Regular
Playing Sturgia always felt like **** for me. Swings are slow, lack range, movement speed are slow, no pike, just boring. You dont feel slippery at all when fighting through swarms of enemy, you feel like a dude holding a refrigerator on his back. Worst shield you can literally get a bolt in the **** while holding it straight. You have to take a guess about Holding it either UP or DOWN, if you hold it down you lose your head and if you hold it up you lose your balls. Since ranged classes are shooting you with AK47 in this game you cant have the reaction time to move it up or down based on the trajectory.
Who would you say are the best, the good and the middling then? Cuz I can agree that Sturgia's the worst, but that doesn't say anything much else about your opinion on the game's current imbalances.
 
Who would you say are the best, the good and the middling then? Cuz I can agree that Sturgia's the worst, but that doesn't say anything much else about your opinion on the game's current imbalances.
Honestly im too casual atm to have a relevant opinion on this matter. I’d Say high tier = vlandia, battania, empire. Mid tier = aserai, khuzait. Sturgia is just **** to play i quit the game when its a sturgia mirror. I refuse to play them.
 
Top Bottom