Faction Issues - Suggestions and Comments

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IronValley

Regular
Hi! It's good to see that you guys are back in Warband! (Or, that I am, since I found out that NE:WB came out, and instantly bought Warband.)

As you've mentioned repeatedly, this is a pure port of NE, so that all (oh, they aren't that many) the flaws, quirks and issues with the old NE are still around. I'll try to make a list of gameplay and troop issues that I have noticed in my playthroughs and I hope more people list their own.

Since I'm an avid Vaegir fan, I'll start by commenting on a few things that annoy me about the troops trees:

-Praetorians:
First of all, the name..... The Roman palace guards have nothing to do in NE! Bring back the Cathapracts! Or you could perhaps expand upon the Druzhinick name. The troop tree could use some downsizing.  The 2nd issue is that they suffer from the classic Medieval mistakes of "Damned, I left my helmet at the barracks.... AGAIN!" and "Oops, I forgot to tie up my warhorse, nobody will notice if I ride to battle on this Lame Steppe Horse, right?

I used to dislike the noble cavalry as well, primarily because of their affinity for useless horses, and full Swadian plate, but the current princes are awesome! It would be great if the Common cavalry got the same treatment, remove the low quality horses from the Praetorians++ units, and give them the new (and great looking!) Vaegir armor sets. The new veils are awesome, and the armor looks pretty good as well. (A shame that it seems to be out of fashion at the markedplace in my games though....)

-Veterans
AAAAh.... are you cavalry of infantry?? Please decide!!!! They are a bit annoying to train, since you never know where you have them.

Making them pure infantry would solve the issue, but then the startphase as Vaegir will be a bit harder.




In terms of other "annoyances" I'd say that the Khergits could use another tier of armor. Currently most of their troops are issued with high quality armor that weigh far less than normal armor, while still providing better protection. This also goes for the helmets that they seem to hand out to every new recruit. Playing as an Archer, getting 0dmg head shots is quite unsatisfying. Perhaps introducing more variety in armor choices for their soldiers, the archers in particular.

Fighting the Khergits on the open field is annoying to say the least, but it gets even worse in any sort of siege battle. Due to the fact that almost every single troop they have has a bow with high skill. I'm fully aware of the fact that they are supposed to be based heavily on horse archers, but compared to most other factions, the sieges are a *****. Perhaps increasing the Horse Archery skill in their lancers, and reducing Weapon Skill.




This post should not be read as a "omg too hard" whine, I enjoy the occasional challenges, but some of these issues (Praetorians in general, name and headwear) are quite annoying. I'm the type of player that prefers to gather an army of "local" troops. I recruit from faction towns, rescued prisoners, and occasionally from Swadian cities (When my hatless mounted roman palace guards take too many blunt/pointy objects to the head), and prefer to play the role of commander/loyal subject (Until wronged!).


I'm aware this is not the most active part of the forum, but hopefully people will come flocking back once they see NE:WB is out =)
 
You make some good points. As I've mentioned before, the Khergits are a rather unloved faction in the NE camp, so the least attention has been lavished on them. You are right about the armour and that will probably get some attention in the next version. They've always been a devil in sieges, due to the high number or archers. The problem is, if you go to far in toning down the armour, they end up the weakest faction by a long chalk.

And yes, the Vaegir names are a bit of a curate's egg. I think nobody could agree on how to spell Kataphract.

My own pet peeve is how easy it is to train up Lady Knights. Never quite got round to sorting them out.
 
Well, after actually checking around a few Towns, the items to fill the gaps are there.

I actually liked the old "barbarian" spelling of "Kathapraktos" =)

I've taken to outfitting my companions and myself in Vaegir Chargers, with Swadian full plate armor, and Vaegir Veil helmets with chain accessories. They are a bit on the heavy side of cavalry, I'm guessing the Vaegirs are supposed to have slightly lighter cavalry than the Swadians for balance reasons. The new Vaegir Elite armor, combined with Vaegirhelmets, Vaegir veils, and Vaegir Noble veils would make them fit that role perfectly.

Currently they look like they just woke up from a long night of feasting, still in their colorful PJs.

The Khergits aren't that bad, they put up quite a fight against a company of Ivory Sentinels in a siege...

If you give me a few pointers to how a troop editor works, and where to get one, I could make a list of suggestions.
 
IronValley 说:
If you give me a few pointers to how a troop editor works, and where to get one, I could make a list of suggestions.

Morgh's Warband Mod Tools: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=105928.0

It's a piece of cake to use, but read the instructions about updating and saving otherwise you can waste a lot of hard work. Make a copy of NE in the Modules folder and work from that, then you can always go back if you make a serious mistake. (It's pretty forgiving though and makes backups every save).

If you come up with a decent rebalance we'll offer it up for test and we could well use it in the next update if it's popular(assuming you don't mind of course).
 
I've don some testing, and theese seem to fit what I feel is appropriate for their cavalry:


trp_vaegir_pcommander Praetorian_Commander Praetorian_Commanders 0 66061312 0 0 3 0 0
  539 0 540 0 541 0 542 0 543 0 544 0 545 0 546 0 475 0 476 0 477 0 478 0 482 0 780 0 483 0 485 0 519 0 521 0 524 0 525 0 832 0 795 0 800 0 800 0 719 0 763 0 196 0 195 0 194 0 758 0 761 0 702 0 289 0 396 0 397 0 398 0 167 0 166 0 296 0 286 0 707 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  32 18 4 4 26
270 250 260 210 0 210 0
274 131072 0 41131 696320 0
  17179869185 1315051091194281984 1835136 0 33269228300 5615707260354297855 2031609 0


This is with no name change at all.

I've been toying with the idea of having the Vaegir "Elite Cavalry" being Teutonic Knights, to the Swadians Templars/Hospitalers. But that would make them a bit over the top on the heavy cavalry.... but then again, the elite troops are supposed to be hard-asses, right?
 
Let me add something to this list about Rhodoks:

Please connect the lower Sword tree to the Captain, so you don't need to train all your recruits through several tiers of Spearmen (who suck in melee combat and thus are hard to train). It doesn't make sense right now, since after Captain you can train them to (Elite) Swordfighters anyway. Currently the lower swordsmen are fairly useless to the player, except when you want a cheap garrison filler. In all other cases you don't want them due to their early-ending tree.

Also, PLEASE give all Rhodok sword-troops guaranteed shields! Uniformity is important, especially in Warband. As a Rhodok, you'll mostly play your battles defensively so you want to have a solid shield wall, but when half of your sword-troops don't have shields and they get shot all the time you really want to tear your hairs out.


I made these changes in my own game, but I recommend to integrate them in the actual release.
 
Eh, one problem is the names of some troops- Captain, Praetorian Commander. Names of guys who are Officers, Commanders- Leaders, I see the only real 'leaders' on the field should be companions & you. But hey, nothing I can't change in the troop file. :smile: But what I can't change (because I don't know how to) is the Vaegir unit that is half infantry and half cavalry, it ticks me off and I won't play it because of that.
 
Use the editor mentioned in the 2nd or 3rd post, end edit the Vaegir Veterans. Simply remove the horses from their items, and voila, they are infantry.
 
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