Faction Daddies

[Remedius]

Ok - a weird question but an important one and one which might shed light on a rather unexplored area of the game:

Families generally - how many principle families are there in each faction. In Swadia there seems to be about four or five and each head of the family is usually a powerful Lord. I count Haringoth Klargus Grainwad Delinard and - is it Rafarch as Swadias main men but they do have sons and some are rated as related to others.

What is more some - like Haringoth are the Kings right hand while Klargus is actually described as a rival and frequently shirks campaign duty if Haringoth is Marshal. Internal rivalries make the game interesting and produce weakness.

I'd like to know if anyone can shed more light on how the Lords are related and how many principle Families there are and more about 'Rivals' and how their relationships affect the game.

 

[Lord Brutus]

You know, every time I start a new game, I say, I'm gonna figure out and remember who's who with the family thing, but somehow it never works out that way, especially after the defections start. That, plus many lord's personalities change from game to game, changes their rivals.

 

[Caba`drin]

Some things I discovered after researching related questions:

Banners in fact are not random. They are given in the same order each time.

隐藏: previous post I made on banners

There are technically 140 banners defined in the Native scene_props file, which are assigned in the scripts file in the script game_start.

Banners 1-62 go to the Swadians, Vaegirs, and Nords, in that order.
Banners 63-84 go to the Khergits
Banners 85-104 go to the Rhodoks
Banners 105-125 go to the Sarranids
Banners 126-135 are actually duplicates of the first 10 Sarranid banners
Banners 136-141 are those that go to Kings/Kingdoms

When the player picks a banner, if they select a banner the same as another lord, that lord's banner is always replaced by the same red-white checked Swadian banner (Swadian banner 15).

Companions are always granted banners in the same, descending, order as governed by code in the dialogs file. The code is off by 1, so instead of starting with banner 135, just before the King's banners, they start with Ragnar's banner. Then, since 126-135 in Native just point to Sarranid banners, you will see your Companions be given scimitars, flowers, deserting things of that nature. And always in the same, predictable order. This format does ensure that no companions have the same banner, but it does little else.

I've developed a bit of code to replace the Native dialog code which randomizes the banners received by Companions, while ensuring they don't duplicate one another or the player. It's posted in The Forge, here.

Some lord's personalities are pre-set, some are random.

隐藏: previous post on personalities

I believe it has something to do with the randomized lord personalities at game start. Those factions may have had an overwhelming number of debauched, etc, lords so their relations with their lieges fell over time. If they have been getting beat up in battles this would accelerate the process. I've not tracked down solid evidence of this yet in the scripts, but it looks plausible.

As for fixes, I do not know of any.

I was under the impression that all factions had an equal number of honorable, debauched, etc lords from the start. If what you say is true (and I can't say it isn't), that would put a premium on speaking with every lord on the map prior to choosing a faction to join. It's funny though, because as my honor goes up, I seem to increase relations with equal numbers of lords from each faction.

The first seven lords of each faction are equally distributed honorable, debauched, etc. After that, the next 4 older lords are have their personalities randomly selected. After those are selected younger lords (sons of the first seven and the other 4 older lords...so 9 of the lords total) have a 50% chance of having their father's personality and a 50% chance of having a random personality. If the 4 randomly assigned older lords are mostly dishonorable, then there's a large chance that the crop of their kids will be too.

Randomizing lord personalities in this way helps each game flow differently, I'd say. Some games you've a bunch of honor-bound loyalists, and others backstabbers who hop all over Calradia before ending up with the player or a trip to the beyond.

And as has been stated, some fiefs are random, others are pre-set. Renown is randomized.

Looking at the game start script, the level of relationships are randomized at game start, true, but it doesn't appear that much (if any) randomization is occurring as to who is related to whom...perhaps I'm missing it in the scripts though, as I too recall what appears to be at least some "randomization" of banners/family in game, but I can't find the source of it code-wise.

 

[Remedius]

Admittedly there are some lords who never occupy much more than bit parts in the scheme of things. I have always sought to get in with the big Swadian lords cos I'm always a loyal vassal.

I know - typically - Haringoth or any lord with a castle named after them is significant - Haringoth is father of Regas who is a strong mid level lord in his own right. He is ultra loyal and one of the best marshals.

Klargus always starts as the owned of Suno - a big deal - he is also the Kings rival and opponent of Haringoth. Mirchaud is his son and he is HATED by almost anyone friendly to Haringoth.

Deglan is owner of Uxkhal and is loyal - if the start of the game is worth credence HE is the Kings first choice as marshal but tends not to last long. He usually fields a big army.

Grainwad I love - I haven't had a game where we haven't become devoted friends. He has a son but can't remember who - 100+ armies and loyal to King.

Rafarch Devlian Rochabarth Despin - all mid size lords - I'm sure they are sons but some are big enough to be Daddies.

Army size is not an accurate way of telling seniority I know but generally bigger armies indicate greater power because of number of fiefs held.

In nearly all my games a huge rift occurs between the ultra loyal Haringoth faction and the Klargus faction - both are given marshal but if one gets it the other doesn't show up and reports they can do greater deeds.

 

[Bergioyn]

When the player picks a banner, if they select a banner the same as another lord, that lord's banner is always replaced by the same red-white checked Swadian banner (Swadian banner 15).

Either this is inaccurate, or I have a bug, in my current game one Vaegir lord (can't remember which one) has same banner as me (the dragon on red and blue background).

 

[Shadow-Seeker]

me and haringoth always become friends and Klargus is always a jackass to me
Haringoth once came through for me when i was on a training run. I had left my troops in derchios castle and brought marnid and firentis with me with 25 swad recruits when a khergit army charged me. I was running and was saying "oh crap,oh crap,oh crap!" when out of nowhere haringoth comes in and beats them to a pulp.

 

[Remedius]

Haringoth always seems to arrive in the nik of time - if you've read the Best moments thread it was him who came to the defence of Halmar.