Eyegrim is impossible to beat in new update

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Flazz

Regular
WB
Screenshot is what his army size is at in my game.

It's impossible to beat him now. I managed to lure him to both noldor lords, and he devastated them. His army is so massive that in battle he outnumbers us 20:1 so I can't beat him on the battlefield. In autocalc he has thousands of troops so there is no way of getting more than that. He constantly raises his army count by defeating more people and turning his prisoners into fallen.

Obviously in the start of the game you have absolutely no control over anything. So he is free to snowball out of control and it's entirely based on luck whether or not he dies early. Once he gets to about 2000 troops he becomes an unstoppable wrecking ball who is constantly getting stronger.

edit: he is now at 7300 troops and rising. He's constantly sacking cities and nobody can do anything about it.
 

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sher

Baron
Just like I thought it would end up. Well, the only way I see is to spend a huge amount of time by soloing him with horse archery and lance when you are high level - his troops are weak and have only throwing ranged options. Another way is to have huge garrison and lure him in hope that he'll try to  sack that city. Is it good or fun? - I don't think so. He may be like "end game boss" now. Pity that he holds useful unlocks so you kinda forced to care about him right from the start trying to lure him to destruction while he still has only starting army.
 

Gorvex

Master Knight
Those numbers are still not unprecedented. Armies of 8k+ were reported many times in the past by players. And the highest I've seen was a 24k sized Aeldarian :razz: The bane of these "mega" spawns is the superior troop quality the player can amass towards the end-game (a.k.a. upgraded KO and CKO troops). There's nothing that you with a party size of 800+ and a bunch - or all your vassals - can't solve later on. For the time being, forget about Eyegrim if he is too tough for you.

Also, the test results before the release of v3.9.4 didn't indicate that Eyegrim could consistently end up as a bigger threat than any other unique spawn. Sure, there's a chance, but for other spawns too if they can feast on a giant prisoner stack.

P.S.: I'm actually jealous, enjoy that little challenge while it lasts! I never get to see spawns past 3k in size, partly because I Iure them into each other soon after their spawning.
 
Yeah, a fully-upgraded CKO can easily destroy most of the large spawns. At least that's what I did with previous versions. Spent most of the game leaving the large armies alone and letting them grow on purpose, for the sole reason of taking an elite group for army-destroying skirmishes.
 

sher

Baron
Huge armies are actually quite boring and would be much easier if not for unfair outnumbering - you can outnumber them max 2 to 1 but they can force you to field like 5-10 soldiers. Defeated this playthrough noldor lord with 3K and almost all initial army intact. I fielded 1200 troops alone, lost first round and won all the rest 20+ since such armies are just faceless and boring assortment of random troops watered down by low-levels - didn't fight personally after finished noldors. It's not a challenge at all, just unfair outnumbering.
 

Khabal

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
In my last 3.9.3 game, one of the Noldor leaders had 4k+ troops, around day 290; I don't think this is something "new" to 3.9.4, or at least, nothing that didn't happen before.

Yesterday I faced the 800+ "peasants' army" with my 90 soldiers group (game day is around 100) I had like 30 Baccu crossbowmen last tier, another 30 gladiators and a good mix of cavalry archers/lancers mostly comming from prisoners rescued plus my companions. I play with the max battle size allowed by PoP, and it was a very long and bored fight, to be honest, but we made it.

Yes, I know this pittyful army has nothing to do with Eyegrimm, but I wanted to bring it up hehe.
 

Huillam

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Gorvex said:
Also, the test results before the release of v3.9.4 didn't indicate that Eyegrim could consistently end up as a bigger threat than any other unique spawn. Sure, there's a chance, but for other spawns too if they can feast on a giant prisoner stack.
Except that Eyegrim doesn't need a giant prisonner stack. It's guaranted that he will reach a point where he's impossible to handle by normal means and even worse that will happen in a short amount of time. His scouts will always pin down lord armies long enough for him to join the battle and the moment he'll have enough soldiers, he'll start sacking cities gaining more soldiers even more quickly.
 

Flazz

Regular
WB
Khabal said:
In my last 3.9.3 game, one of the Noldor leaders had 4k+ troops, around day 290; I don't think this is something "new" to 3.9.4, or at least, nothing that didn't happen before.

Yesterday I faced the 800+ "peasants' army" with my 90 soldiers group (game day is around 100) I had like 30 Baccu crossbowmen last tier, another 30 gladiators and a good mix of cavalry archers/lancers mostly comming from prisoners rescued plus my companions. I play with the max battle size allowed by PoP, and it was a very long and bored fight, to be honest, but we made it.

Yes, I know this pittyful army has nothing to do with Eyegrimm, but I wanted to bring it up hehe.

Fallen warriors ride the equivalent of netherworld chargers and have 106 health with 6 power strike. They are not a joke. He has over 2000 of these in his army alone. The problem is that all of his troops are at least decent due to their very high health. Even the most basic unit, the fallen, can spawn with a 45 damage sword, so a lucky hit can tear through something.
 

sher

Baron
Those horses are slow. Main problem is throwing weapons which can damage NSH and it's needed for comfortable lancing, otherwise you will be stuck with same slow horses like they're using. After throwing ammo is depleted you can just shoot down shieldless ones with dangerous long weapons and lance all the rest. It's just tedious and repetitive. But, well, playing with fresh patches is like that I guess. In 3.9.3. Eyegrim is absolute loser which is also not great at all.
 

Dalion

Knight
sher said:
He may be like "end game boss" now.
If that was the initial idea behind it - I don't see any problem with that. Finally some true evil to unite Pendor against. Considering unlocks, yes they are useful, but with 3.9 blunt weapon variety CKO can be totally fine without doom mace and netherworld shield until the very defeat of Eyegrim in late game.
 

sher

Baron
UndeadDuke said:
sher said:
He may be like "end game boss" now.
If that was the initial idea behind it - I don't see any problem with that.

You'll see the problem when he'll have 50+K troops. Problem with unlocks (even worse this time)  that he blocks content with equipment he doesn't even use - it would be more natural if Doomguides would use these shields and Three Seers have unlocks.

As for initial idea I have no clue. My guess is that it's an overcompensation after very weak heretic unique spawns in 3.9
 

Flazz

Regular
WB
UndeadDuke said:
sher said:
He may be like "end game boss" now.
If that was the initial idea behind it - I don't see any problem with that. Finally some true evil to unite Pendor against. Considering unlocks, yes they are useful, but with 3.9 blunt weapon variety CKO can be totally fine without doom mace and netherworld shield until the very defeat of Eyegrim in late game.

How do you plan to defeat eyegrim in the late game when he has 20,000 troops?
 

Dalion

Knight
Highly upgraded (noldor level) horse archer CKO + some defender-friendly siege. Befriend noldor and throw him into both of their lords (they will obviously lose but if player will join the battle at their side, wait until all allies are defeated and retreat, it's a great way to weaken him. Call the marshall force and also hire some decent mercenary company. Again, with no hopes of win, just to reduce his party size. Then engage the rest with your strong party, high tactics skill and clever fight inititiation (so you won't end up taken prisoner when retreat), make sure that horse archer improved AI is enabled in mod options. Set reinforcements waves to minimum to make quiver refill more often. Try not to take damage yourself too much, player presence on the battlefield is vital for victory. With the right use of all of the above, it is only matter of time.

I really envy you at this point, in my game Eyegrim hasn't even invaded yet, but when he does I'll see how far his party size will go. When you have a decent horse archer CKO, siege of Elacrai becomes the only challenge left, so I'm really digging this new feature (will report back when it occurs in my playthrough)
 

Flazz

Regular
WB
UndeadDuke said:
Highly upgraded (noldor level) horse archer CKO + some defender-friendly siege. Befriend noldor and throw him into both of their lords (they will obviously lose but if player will join the battle at their side, wait until all allies are defeated and retreat, it's a great way to weaken him. Call the marshall force and also hire some decent mercenary company. Again, with no hopes of win, just to reduce his party size. Then engage the rest with your strong party, high tactics skill and clever fight inititiation (so you won't end up taken prisoner when retreat), make sure that horse archer improved AI is enabled in mod options. Set reinforcements waves to minimum to make quiver refill more often. Try not to take damage yourself too much, player presence on the battlefield is vital for victory. With the right use of all of the above, it is only matter of time.

I really envy you at this point, in my game Eyegrim hasn't even invaded yet, but when he does I'll see how far his party size will go. When you have a decent horse archer CKO, siege of Elacrai becomes the only challenge left, so I'm really digging this new feature (will report back when it occurs in my playthrough)

The problem for me is that this isn't like elecrai. Elecrai is insanely difficult, but you don't have to do it. Elecrai isn't going to ransack your cities while destroying everything near it. Eyegrim is not only insanely, insanely powerful, but he's a real threat because he's actively doing things.
 

Dalion

Knight
Well, Eyegrim doesn't invade with 8k army and instant plans of sacking the nearest city. There is a time period in which player is able to take some measures and prevent him for becoming unstoppable. Now when you know what a threat he can be if ignored, it is a good motivation to deal with his army as soon as possible right after spawn notification. The only real problem in his army are Revenants, and he can't restore them from alive party members so once you are done with these, you can turn next rounds in your favor quite easily.
 

Flazz

Regular
WB
UndeadDuke said:
Well, Eyegrim doesn't invade with 8k army and instant plans of sacking the nearest city. There is a time period in which player is able to take some measures and prevent him for becoming unstoppable. Now when you know what a threat he can be if ignored, it is a good motivation to deal with his army as soon as possible right after spawn notification. The only real problem in his army are Revenants, and he can't restore them from alive party members so once you are done with these, you can turn next rounds in your favor quite easily.

This isn't an option if he spawns quickly after starting a new game. In my current save, he was at 8k troops before I could even do anything. I didn't have any ability to stop him before he became absurdly powerful. Yeah, sure, late in the game you can just kill him very quickly, but that isn't an option if he immediately spawns while you're useless against everything.
 

Dalion

Knight
Even then, the situation isn't hopeless. You should go meet his army to catch his attention, so he doesn't fight other lords. Then you should take him for a walk for a while, asking any militia patrols, lords and kings, castle stewards, tavern keepers, traveller and slave trader NPC-s on your way for rumors, to increase a chance of another minor army to spawn and help you defeat him. Eyegrim belongs to Heretics, and they have negative relations with almost everyone except Singalians and Rebel Peasants so pretty much any army you will be lucky to spawn should do the job. Although I agree that with such ability to grow so fast he shouldn't spawn earlier than 100 days from the beginning of the game. I could make such a tweak, if needed.
 

Gorvex

Master Knight
Flazz said:
UndeadDuke said:
Well, Eyegrim doesn't invade with 8k army and instant plans of sacking the nearest city. There is a time period in which player is able to take some measures and prevent him for becoming unstoppable. Now when you know what a threat he can be if ignored, it is a good motivation to deal with his army as soon as possible right after spawn notification. The only real problem in his army are Revenants, and he can't restore them from alive party members so once you are done with these, you can turn next rounds in your favor quite easily.

This isn't an option if he spawns quickly after starting a new game. In my current save, he was at 8k troops before I could even do anything. I didn't have any ability to stop him before he became absurdly powerful. Yeah, sure, late in the game you can just kill him very quickly, but that isn't an option if he immediately spawns while you're useless against everything.
@Flazz: you can start luring spawns into each other / a group of vassals / some Noldor parties right from day 1, and you don't need to have any soldiers. Just evaluate who will win and join on that side :wink: Then drag the winner spawn to the next target, and so on. Like here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375396.msg8953167.html#msg8953167
 
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