Extreme ideologies and related contents

[Amigo]

Your opinions on ANTIFA, Communism (and socialism) x Nazism (and fascism), radical Islamism (prophet caricatures in denmark, they have been printed again in newspapers now) and more.

Communism x Nazism (+its ideological predecesors)
I think that they are very same ideologies, much more than their representatives think. I hope that there are some hidden fascist/communist, because discussion with them is very funny for me, since they usually cant defend their ideology and tend to insult (you jew, gypsy/millionaire etc.)

Antifa
Good ideas represented by bad people - Anarchists, communists with very small number of normal people. Still i consider some neonazi beating as usefull, because its only effective defense against them.

Militant Islamism (and other religion extremes)
Faith may be a good thing, if its only your personal faith and you dont want to spread it with force, i think that everyone can agree with this.
Making fun of other religions is ok, its same as jokes about national stereotypes. Its not only europeans (Christians) who do it, but islamic response to it is bombs and threatening, although they do the same (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,20457.0.html  )


Multiculturalism
i am against mixing cultures into single one - it wouldnt mean nothing less than end of western culture, because western states are final destination for most immigrants.

-Immigrantion
If they arent openly against original population and accept some of its culture, then its ok. In this case i can even agree, that they bring some good things to society.
And if not, then i dont understand why they are still there and why they are tolerated by goverments and receiving benefits from them instead of deporation.

 

[triato]

Quote:

Islamism (and other religion extremes)


With this you are saying that all who follow Islam are religion extremes, that is bigotry. You could have said: Fundamentalists or something like that.

Multiculturalism an extreme ideology? Why?

Imigrants extreme ideology? Why? They are not even an ideology.
About them bothering the "original population" (wonder how many times a place has original population), What do you mean by that? What if looking at inmigrants "bother" the original population?
Inmigrants duty is to respect the laws of the country they get in, they don't need to adopt the place culture, they only have to respect it. Anyway, I don't know why am I discusing inimigrants here, they are not an ideology.

 

[avatorio]

Strictly spoken, you should be talking about extremist interpretations of religion; as many "fundamentalists" are living by the letter of religion, yet do not conduct in a violent or aggresive way towards members of another religion or atheists. 

As for Multiculturalism; I believe he would be referring to the interpretation of the multicultural discours as is an absolute ideal; hence a dangerous philosophy. Somewhat connected to the political correct interpretations, which can be used to silent a debate as in their most radical form, every comment can be reduced to "racism". But this goes for every philosophy

The debate on immigration is the same thing. In europe there is a general debate on whether immigrants simply have to obey the law, or also have to blend in to the "native" culture. The most common example would be the new discussion on Islam and whether or not the women's choice to wear a headscarf is prove of the women-unfriendly behaviour and paternalistic views towards women from the Islam; or women's right to express their cultural identity...

And so on

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

I think that they are very same ideologies,

Too bad smilies don't have a size property.

You do realise that communists were one of the groups hated by the nazis? And that the ideologies are completely different? Sure bat**** insanity happened/happens in both cases, but the reasoning was different.

May be similliar to previous, but still i am against mixing cultures into single one - it wouldnt mean nothing less than end of western culture, because western states are final destination for most immigrants.

People are people.

I hope that there are some hidden fascist/communist, because discussion with them is very funny for me, since they usually cant defend their ideology and tend to insult (you jew, gypsy/millionaire etc.)

Lol, wait 'til Hidro gets wind of this.

 

[Amigo]

Multiculturalism is ideology and for me its also extreme ideology, because in modern worlds when you arent multiculturalist then you are racist. thats my experience.
Immigrants should be under multiculturalism, i will correct that.

I said "some of its culture", it only means not to make ghettos. It could also be described as respect, that right. I have corrected it a bit, missunderstood.

As for Multiculturalism; I believe he would be referring to the interpretation of the multicultural discours as is an absolute ideal; hence a dangerous philosophy. Somewhat connected to the political correct interpretations, which can be used to silent a debate as in their most radical form, every comment can be reduced to "racism". But this goes for every philosophy Twisted Evil

Close to my point of view.

You do realise that communists were one of the groups hated by the nazis? And that the ideologies are completely different? Sure bat**** insanity happened/happens in both cases, but the reasoning was different.

no they arent.
Nazism - against other races then white
Communism - against other classes then working class (against rich people)

Because communism is utopia i will use USSR as example, and nazi germany.
against democracy (corrupted system)


communist were hated by nazist because of political competetion, because both ideologies aimed on working class. I should have wrote socialism instead of communism..  They just wanted to be opposition to communists. Also NSDAP wasnt far right party (nor isnt current neonazi groups, in case they have any other ideology than smashing negros), its just communist propaganda (as winners of WWII), because they wanted to connect nazism with western regimes and gain popularity through this in countries they have occupied.

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

Meh, we're already multi-cultuarlist whether people like it or not. It's not like we've always stayed in one country for our entire history. Britain alone is full of countless heritages, immigration is nothing new. It's just sensationalist, thick tabloids that rant and rave about "WAVES OF IMMIGRANTS" stealing our jobs, money and women.

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

no they arent.
Nazism - against other races then white
Communism - against other classes then working class (against rich people)

Because communism is utopia i will use USSR as example, and nazi germany.
against democracy (corrupted system)


communist were hated by nazist because of political competetion, because both ideologies aimed on working class. I should have wrote socialism instead of communism..  Rolling Eyes They just wanted to be opposition to communists. Also NSDAP wasnt far right party (nor isnt current neonazi groups, in case they have any other ideology than smashing negros), its just communist propaganda (as winners of WWII), because they wanted to connect nazism with western regimes and gain popularity through this in countries they have occupied.

Can you please write that bottom bit out again?

But to the top bit:

You're oversimplifying.

 

[Amigo]

top: yes, i do. tell me same aspects of Socialism in USSR for example and i will give you nazi counterpart. (I have already said that i should have used socialism instead of communism, which is slightly closer to anarchism i think)

bottom: The reason of their belligerent relations was that german communist took potencional NSDAP voters, both were aimed on working class and wanted to increase its influence. fine?
Both parties were left wing - Communists wanted to mark NSDAP as burgeois party to prove that capitalism (burgeois system) is bad and declare that communism is only good ideology for them (propaganda in countries occupied by red army). This is the origin of declaring nazism as far right ideology. fine?

Those ideologies (nazism x socialism) arent same, but very similliar.

 

[NikkTheTrick]

bottom: The reason of their belligerent relations was that german communist took potencional NSDAP voters, both were aimed on working class and wanted to increase its influence. fine?
Both parties were left wing - Communists wanted to mark NSDAP as burgeois party to prove that capitalism (burgeois system) is bad and declare that communism is only good ideology for them (propaganda in countries occupied by red army). This is the origin of declaring nazism as far right ideology. fine?

So, are you trying to say that in 40s and 50s USA were ruled by communists (like McCarthy) and that is why NSDAP was considered a far right party in USA?

 

[Trooper5445]

USSR was not a communist country. It was a dictatorship that kept its people poor in the name of an ideology for the most part.
The closet example of true communism to every exist would be the Kibutzs in Israel, which I'm sure you know very little about.

Also how I immigration a bad thing? It brings new blood into a country and keeps things moving, not to mention that for a lot of first world countries, immigrants provide the work that others will not do.

You sound like a Right Winger. 

 

[Amigo]

I dont know what lead republicans to this idea, but it was common topic of propaganda here in middle europe to connect western capitalism with nazis, thus leading into Right winged Nazism, i dont know if it was used during and before the war.

instead of discussion who was ruling in USA you can tell me some rightwinged ideas of NSDAP, explain the name (National Socialist German Workers Party) and so on.
Mein Kampf is also good book to gain image about future NSDAP ideology (its not only about racial topics). Hitler in his speeches also sometimes critized burgeois system as jewish (before his rise to power), thought it may was a pure populism during great depression..

You sound like a Right Winger.

I am. And i am anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-communist, although i am nationalist (or better patriot) - thats very bad thing in multicultis point of view...

Immigrants should respect its new country, its history, faith (it doesnt mean adopting it, just respect) and nation itself. Riots in France is nice example of multi culturalism in its bad way and lefts tend to say "they are innocent, its all our fault!! give them social help!!"

 

[Trooper5445]

Yes the Nazi party was called that. Just like the "People's Most Glorious Republic of China" or "The Democratic Republic of Korea". You can call yourself whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. Not to mention Nazism is specifically against communism which is why everyone was so surprised the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was negotiated.

 

[Amigo]

I know myself better than you do. You can call me a nazi, but i dont really care.. I may forgot to mention that for me nazism and communism is the same crap.

Nazism is specificallly against capitalism because its considered to be a jewish regime, also the democracy which is for weak and is instrument of jewish conspiracy - Socialism: against capitalism, because its against workers and USSR and its puppet regimes were shining examples of democracy, oh yes.

Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed because both sides wanted Poland, its not ideological reason, it was just profitable deal. Pact of two devils.

Tell me what is rightwing on nazism - simple hate towards communism doesnt affect its ideology..

USSR was not a communist country. It was a dictatorship that kept its people poor in the name of an ideology for the most part.

yes it wasnt, it was just socialism, something on the way to communism. Correct.

The closet example of true communism to every exist would be the Kibutzs in Israel, which I'm sure you know very little about.

god.. oh yes, i am ignorant who doesnt know anything about world and its history, sure.

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

What trooper's saying is that USSR != Communist Ideology, which strikes me as fairly accurate.

 

[morgoth2005]

Nazism: no. Under no circumstances.
Communism: Good idea but destined to fail and almost impossible to achieve.
Antifa: Looked them up. Will join.
Radical Islam: Fanatics. Get them in any religion, just too many here.
Multi-culturalism - don't give me a monolithic block of crap. I want difference and diversity.
Immigration: Being an immigrant myself, I think it's important but needs to be controlled.

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

Antifa looks like a Rage Against the Machine humping teenagers wet dream? Against the state? Oh really... Nice threatening AK's plastered on your website there, I will seriously consider you a safeguard against the far right...

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

Antifa? wha?

 

[NikkTheTrick]

instead of discussion who was ruling in USA you can tell me some rightwinged ideas of NSDAP, explain the name (National Socialist German Workers Party) and so on.

First, North Korea full name is PDRK - Peoples' Democratic Republic od Korea. Are they democratic? If not, explain the name!

Nazis did have socialist ideas. So did USA. Great depression was a nasty things and some socialist approach was necessary. Capitalism was not rejected, but some socialism was necessary. Similarly, every western nation is socialist to at least some extent. Under pure capitalism, there would be no public education, no public healthcare, etc.

Second, Nazi and Communist ideology was different. Nazis called for unity of all classes (NSDAP did not win majority in elections - they formed a broad coallition, spanning many parties from right to left) of Aryan race. With that unity, they sought to benefit all classes of the Race. First by destroying dangerous anti-German states like France and then they sought to take land from whom they considered subhuman - Jews, Poles, Russians, etc. "Living space" thing.

Communism called for unity of all races in the class struggle. An American, French, Russian, Ukrainese, Pole, Chinese, Indian and Ethiopian are all equal under the idea of communism. Poor classes from all nations should rise up and fight for their rights together.

There is a HUGE difference between class and race. Once can change their class. Race cannot be changed.

Third, words "right wing" and "left wing" are stupid anyway. Here is an example: rate the following issues on right-left scale. and I'll show you that this scale is stupid.

- Gay rights.
- Abortion.
- Rights of workers at factories.
- Private property ownership.

 

[Hidrogeno]

I am. And i am anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-communist, although i am nationalist (or better patriot) - thats very bad thing in multicultis point of view...

I find this offensive: I am a Communist. Communists are, by definition, opposed to fascism. I am not anti-nationalist; Communists are the most patriotic people. The attempts at instituting 'communism' on large bodies of people have totally failed by being fascist in the first place. Please stop associating the ideal to the failed attempts. (And since when was PRC like Nazi Germany?)

Morgoth, Communism simply can't be thrust upon a large body of people. I am relying on the impending famine to make Communism more palatable.

 

[Ingolifs]

I think nazism and communism are funny. Take away the surface details such as Nazism's adherence to racial purity and communism's belief in equality and the superiority of the working class, and you find both ideologies are essentially the same.

I would lump all forms of religious, nationalistic, communist, faschist etc ideologies under the category of absolutism.

Absolutism in any form basically contains a few concrete rules which are held to be absolutely, unquestionably true. When two different absolutist ideologies clash, war is inevitable, because their fundamental laws will be different and irreconcileable. Religion (My God is the true God), nationalism (Our country is better than yours), and Nazism (Our race is superior to yours) are all absolutist ideologies.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not attacking absolutism as such. Indeed, it has served its purpose in history very well. In previous history, when globalism was not yet born, a nation/religion/ideology had to fight for its right to survive. An absolutist ideology in the most basic form (we deserve to live more than you guys do) was absolutely essential for survival, because everyone else had absolutist ideologies. Any relativist culture would be exploited, and then have its ass kicked.

But in today's climate, absolutism is unnecessary, even damaging. We live in an era of unprecedented connectivity and globalism. In the developed world, everyone is culturally and economically tied to everyone else. Can you imagine a war between the US and China? Because both countries rely on each other so much economically (The US relies on china to make a large portion of their goods, and china relies on the US to buy them), that any war between the two would damage both countries far more than whatever they could hope of getting out of winning. It would become a war of attrition almost immediately.

In the current global climate, a relativist (everyone's views are valid) ideology is much more conducive to peace and co-operation, and absolutism is no longer necessary.

Indeed, however if we were attacked by a nasty race of invading aliens, it would suit us to once again to adopt an absolutist (**** off aliens, we were here first) ideology.