Exploit: Leadreship + Smithing = Sabotage

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iRkshz

Regular
Foreword:
1. Before I create my kingdom, I join the counter kingdom of my culture.
Example:
- if I play as Battania, I join Vlandia or Sturgia
- if i play as Khuzaits, I join Sturgia or Northern Empire
etc

2. After I capture (and gain) the three towns of my culture, I begin to sabotage my (current) kingdom. What for?
Because if I continue to play actively, my (current) kingdom will begin to dominate the map. But I don't need this, because I will be doing my kingdom anyway. And I don't need a strong neighbor.
But I will not create my kingdom until I have good leaderships (150), since for a successful game I need the "Veterans Respect" skill. This is the only one way to get good troops quickly and make good garrisons and reserves quickly.

About this exploit:
After I have three towns of my native culture, I create an army from the leaders of all clans. At this point, I usually have accumulated enough wood and trophy weapons to learn Smithing from scratch to maximum.
Why do I need the Smithing skill? When I played before, I printed money, now I get a level and skill points in order to quickly learn other skills (and make the best convenient weapon for myself).

btw, why am I not using money printing anymore? Because I learned how to make a good economy (I get 30k-50k gold every turn), and how to get big gold banks to sell trophies.

And so, when you have an army of 7-8 clan leaders, you will have an army of 1500+ troops and this allows you to quickly learn the leadership skill. Also, nobles constantly shop in the town where you are standing, so you constantly have access to gold to sell trophies.
Three towns allow you to have 7+ influence per day (with policies). This allows you to maintain an army.
When you have your own eternal army of 1500+ troops, you can always defend your towns - this is most important because your towns will have good prosperity (if you want a good economy), and enemy armies will always seek to capture your towns.

And so, you and your personal army of 7-8 clan leaders, just stand in your town and study Smithing. Since I am doing this from scratch to maximum, it will take a long time. But as a result, you will achieve FIVE goals:
1. Skill leadership above 150 (now you can prepare to create your kingdom).
2. You have maximum Smithing skill 330 (you have level 38-40, all the necessary skills have 5 points), you can print money, but it makes no sense, because your three towns already give you 10k+ gold per day (and there will be more).
3. Prepare an inheritance for my successor to quickly learn level 40+ (for this you need to have a large supply of resources, study all the recipes, and make a lot of high-quality weapons).
4. By this time, you should have accumulated 2-3 million gold (this money will be needed to lure clans into your kingdom). You can also learn the Trading skill if you have stocked up rare goods for your town in advance.
5. Your current kingdom is sabotaged, some of fiefs on the flanks were lost, you got towns, and this kingdom is weakened.

Before creating my kingdom, I invite more nobles to my army, I will make the army starve so that they would lose all troops, after which I will declare war, the kingdom will lose 1500+ good troops and I will capture 10+ nobles (this will reduce the penalty and make it easier for you to capture the rest fiefs).

I think this is an exploit.
What would you do if someone from your kingdom took the best 7-8 nobles into his army and stood in the town? This is destroying your kingdom. You will not be able to resist aggressive neighbors. What would you do with this saboteur? That's right, you have only one way out - this clan is a saboteur, and this clan needs to be expelled from your kingdom.

The kingdom has an option to "kick out a clan", but no one uses this option, because clans do not sabotage, do not betray, there is no point in expelling clans. I found a reason to kick the clans out - the AI should kick you out if you sabotage his kingdom. AI must have such a fuse!
 
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gurslak

Recruit
I can't comment on this being a game breaking exploit or not, but I will say that this sort of behaviour is appropriate to anyone planning on backstabbing their liege or planning on creating their own power base.
This sort of behaviour has been seen multiple times through history and is entirely appropriate.
 

iRkshz

Regular
I can't comment on this being a game breaking exploit or not, but I will say that this sort of behaviour is appropriate to anyone planning on backstabbing their liege or planning on creating their own power base.
This sort of behaviour has been seen multiple times through history and is entirely appropriate.
give historical examples pls (especially an example to starve an army of vassals)
the army of vassals of all keeps to their vassals (the Polish gentry is an ideal example)
it's absurd
my post is not only about this, it is about sabotage, pumping skills, learn to perceive and analyze information COMPLEX
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Bruh, I'm all for intelligently using game systems to the fullest, but some of the stuff you're doing? You might as well just open up the console and give yourself the resources.
 

iRkshz

Regular
Bruh, I'm all for intelligently using game systems to the fullest, but some of the stuff you're doing? You might as well just open up the console and give yourself the resources.
I play by the rules - the developers made the rules - exploits are violations of game mechanics, developers' flaw in the game mechanics system
fate loves the smart people, sheep play with cheats, the rest go with the flow
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
I think how army cohesion works should change. In current version, we are spending 10 influence to increase cohesion by 10 points. I think after certain amount of time, the amount of influence spent to increase cohesion should increase. For instance, after 2 weeks we must spend 20 influence to increase 10 points cohesion, after 4 weeks it should be 40 influence, so on so forth. It is so unrealistic to me you keep the same army no matter how much times goes with the same amount of influence spent to increase cohesion.

In Warband, we had controversy mechanic for marshalls.
In Warband, controversy can make your time as marshall very brief. Every time anything bad happens to your faction, your controversy can increase quite rapidly. The larger your faction, the more difficult it is to maintain order.

Once your controversy starts nearing 100, your monarch will want to replace you.
So the same thing could be applied to Bannerlord. Once you assemble an army, the controversy will start to increase if you stay inactive or if you let your faction's villages be raided or if you let your faction's town or castle be captured. As your controversy increases, your army cohesion can decrease fast or the amount of influence spent to increase cohesion can increase or both of the same time.

The current army mechanic is very easy, very unrealistic to me. It should be changed.
 

murtega

Knight
In current version, we are spending 10 influence to increase cohesion by 10 points.
I'm pretty sure this increases based on something. I remember many times that increasing the cohesion 10 cost me like 30, though I don't know what it depends on. -probably army size-
 

iRkshz

Regular
I think how army cohesion works should change. In current version, we are spending 10 influence to increase cohesion by 10 points. I think after certain amount of time, the amount of influence spent to increase cohesion should increase. For instance, after 2 weeks we must spend 20 influence to increase 10 points cohesion, after 4 weeks it should be 40 influence, so on so forth. It is so unrealistic to me you keep the same army no matter how much times goes with the same amount of influence spent to increase cohesion.

In Warband, we had controversy mechanic for marshalls.

So the same thing could be applied to Bannerlord. Once you assemble an army, the controversy will start to increase if you stay inactive or if you let your faction's villages be raided or if you let your faction's town or castle be captured. As your controversy increases, your army cohesion can decrease fast or the amount of influence spent to increase cohesion can increase or both of the same time.

The current army mechanic is very easy, very unrealistic to me. It should be changed.
a good idea, but I believe that if a player sabotages the kingdom, then he should be kicked out - but it will be difficult, for example, I always have good relations with all the clans 80+, accordingly, if the king wants to expel me, the lords will vote against the king
 

murtega

Knight
if a player sabotages the kingdom
How will AI decide if player sabotages their kingdom? You could build an army and sit it somewhere idle for any reason. It's way more logical to actually let a town fall when they siege it with a +1500 people army instead of defending it, since you'd lose way less men taking it back from a relatively small garrison and almost no militia.
At some point it's acceptable that the best fix for some exploits is to ignore them.
 

iRkshz

Regular
How will AI decide if player sabotages their kingdom?
the army is a tool, the tool is needed to achieve the goal = attack or defend
if player creates an army, but stands still in the town (or walks aimlessly) long time during the war, this is sabotage
need to come up with a formula - but this is not my job :wink:
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I'm pretty sure this increases based on something. I remember many times that increasing the cohesion 10 cost me like 30, though I don't know what it depends on. -probably army size-
Army strength, which is related to size but not entirely.
 

gurslak

Recruit
I play by the rules - the developers made the rules - exploits are violations of game mechanics, developers' flaw in the game mechanics system
fate loves the smart people, sheep play with cheats, the rest go with the flow

I wonder if you've ever tried playing this or any other game for that matter, without desperately trying to find loop holes and exploits. Try playing the game just for fun and as it's given to you without these 'cheats' or is that too hard for you?
It seems really bizarre that you purposely look for these exploits, take advantage of them and then cry about how they've ruined the game on the forums. Maybe, just don't do it in the first place?
 

iRkshz

Regular
emm no and you can test that. if a kingdom is broke their troops count suffer. easily drop 50% of possible numbers or less
I've watched the kingdoms of AI for 30 years in last game (20 full games at all), and I repeat, for AI, money is an illusion

A simple example: I took all the fiefs from Battannia (later Vlandia, and other), after which I did not allow the war, and I watched what would happen - 8 or 10 clans saved up troops, upgraded the troops to t5-t6, after they collected large armies from t5-t6 troops, they started a war.

the question is - if AI have no fiefs and paying tribute, where did the AI get money for hiring, upgrading, maintaining troops? and how does AI buy food?
in the late game, almost all nobles have 200+ troops, and 200 troops t5 is 2400 gold every day for the maintenance of the troops
where do they get the money? killing looters? do you really think so?

I have a lot of material, I haven't compiled all the videos yet, but I claim AI doesn't need money - AI takes money out of thin air

I wonder if you've ever tried playing this or any other game for that matter, without desperately trying to find loop holes and exploits. Try playing the game just for fun and as it's given to you without these 'cheats' or is that too hard for you?
It seems really bizarre that you purposely look for these exploits, take advantage of them and then cry about how they've ruined the game on the forums. Maybe, just don't do it in the first place?
I am a hardcore player, always and in any game I am looking for the best way for maximum results but without cheats - this is called "erudite mindset" - you should know about it if you went to school
am I crying on the forum? Yes! I love to cry - my friends call me "crying evil"
 
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gurslak

Recruit
I am a hardcore player, always and in any game I am looking for the best way for maximum results but without cheats - this is called "erudite mindset" - you should know about it if you went to school
am I crying on the forum? Yes! I love to cry - my friends call me "crying evil"
That's not what erudite means......though the word kind of relates to you as it shows knowledge without intelligence.
 
I can't comment on this being a game breaking exploit or not, but I will say that this sort of behaviour is appropriate to anyone planning on backstabbing their liege or planning on creating their own power base.
This sort of behaviour has been seen multiple times through history and is entirely appropriate.

Yeah, sabotaging a kingdom feels pretty logical and like it fits the game. As some others are saying, maybe there’s a need for the lords to start to distrust you for sitting around a town. But if you’re spending influence to keep people together then it feels like the mechanics are working alright.
 

iRkshz

Regular
That's not what erudite means......though the word kind of relates to you as it shows knowledge without intelligence.
some players do something to change something
other players just drool and complain about a bad life... like this
so RichardtheCat you can do billion twinks, but it will be obvious
 
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