Explanations about game concepts and weird situations

[Daegoth]

Please post your findings about the gameplay and certain rules of the server for specific situations here. I will try to keep the list below up to date, but I might also go fix some bugs rather than dealing with it

Anyway, here is some of the game rules that you might not understand when you encounter during your first few hours of play:

- At the moment, all servers have the option "Friendly fire on, damages self". So if you are playing a team mode (currently anything other than deathmatch), you must be careful while you are using a ranged weapon. If your own attack hits you, then it means that you hit a friend.

- Spectators are currently not listed on TAB list. We will add that feature as soon as possible.

- Please check the key bindings for an updated list of keys. For example, Use Weapon as Ranged/Melee key (default is X key) is a new ability that you can use your throwing axes or javelins for melee combat.

- Horses can now be killed with melee weapons even if they do not have riders. So please do not complain about many horses running around, just kill them

- Usernames are not registered at the moment, so please do use only one and unique username for easier beta testing.

- Maps are not the final releases. So please comment with details on how to improve the existing maps. And also you can create and share your own maps with us just to increase our creativity Unfortunately your maps will never be used in native mode due to legal issues.

- Gold earning formula is as follows:
    - When you kill someone, you earn 100 + 10% of the equipment cost of the enemy.
    - When you get killed by someone, you earn 200 + 20% of your equipment cost.
    - When a team member gets killed by someone, you earn 40% / number of team members of the equipment cost of the killed team member.
    - In games with no teams (like Deathmatch), percentages are doubled but there are no earnings from team members (because there are no team members).
    - Horses do not make you earn any gold (there is a bug at the moment but it will be fixed).
    - Keep in mind that all these calculations are subject to change.

EDIT: Gold earning formula added.

 

[Darkness]

Links to other bugs:
I will try and keep up to date links to bug findings so that people can hop right to the bug listings and skip all the discussion/comments around them.
Please report as they are fixed so that I can remove them from this list.

bugs will now be tracked here:Bugs, glitches, problems, and their solutions


Non-bug stuff:

Hello and thank you for the beta. I know it was random luck, but still. Without you all it wouldnt be possible. Off topic, I am curious. Is there an NDA in effect? I saw some talk about it, but never got any official word on if there is or not (Question answered: No. See this thread) . But I digress...

Is there an official bug list/"findings" thread so that I/we do not post the same bug multiple times or is this to be that thread? (I know there is at least one user made thread for such purpose, but I was checking to see if management wished us to use an official thread or if the member established one was good enough)

On topic: As for my comments/findings.
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    "- When you kill someone, you earn 100 + 10% of the equipment cost of the enemy.
    - When you get killed by someone, you earn 200 + 20% of your equipment cost.
    - When a team member gets killed by someone, you earn 40% / number of team members of the equipment cost of the killed team member."

Why should you get more money for dying than for killing someone? This is basically rewarding more for successfully dying than for successfully killing.

Shouldnt it be basically the opposite?
    - When you kill someone, you earn 100 + 20% of the equipment cost of the enemy.
    - When you get killed by someone, you earn 200 + 10% of your equipment cost.
    - When a team member kills someone of the opposite team, you earn 40% / number of team members of the equipment cost of the killed team member.

or some such thing?

It would make more sense because (although I do realize it is a game) in a real world setting, you would make more money killing someone and plundering their goods than you would having your own members fall.

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Furthermore, I didn't see any posts about it, although I haven't logged in in the past 12 hours, so I don't know if this has changed. But all the maps need more spawn points.

Yesterday, I often times found myself spawning in and suddenly being slashed by someone just sitting there waiting for people to spawn. I also found myself almost stuck in doing something close to the same because if you try and run away from the spawn point. The next person behind you in the spawn will start attacking you from range, so you either try and run and likely die or at best lose valuable health or you run back a little and try and deal with him and then someone else spawns in starting a loop combat at only spawn points.

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EDIT: for completeness/thoroughness and with findings
Edit for links to other bugs.

 

[SockMonkeh]

You can only die once before you have to buy your equipment back but you can kill many people, that's why. The 200 + 80% of your gear's worth that you get on death is just there so that you start with something even if you kill no one that life. The more equipment you buy, the more people you have to kill per life to keep it.

 

[Darkness]

But that is your choice and thus your risk. If you think you are going to die, you shouldnt get more gear. Its kind of like bankruptcy. If you go bankrupt, should the government give you more money but not give it to someone who has no debt at all? It is your fault you died, so why should you make more money for doing it?

With more equipment, you should die less. And irregardless, it is based on the opponents armor, not your own. You shouldnt get more money for having more money/equipment. Thats like saying if you gamble on horse racing its like saying. If you put 100 bucks down on your own horse winning, you get 5% gain for winning. But those who put 1000 bucks down get 10% gain. It shouldnt matter what you have on that determines your major source of income. It should depend on how good you are, aka your kills.

More kills = more money. It doesnt make alot of sense that more deaths = more money and more deaths > more kills.

 

[Redfyre]

You have to buy new equipment every single time you die. I go bankrupt trying to get better equipment every single time I die so at some point I still have to upgrade. Your argument doesn't make any sense because you still run out of money faster in the game if you die than if you actually do well.

 

[SockMonkeh]

The more you buy, the faster you'll go broke if you don't bring the increase in kills/deaths ratio that goes with it. The system just makes it so that it's not a harsh 1:1 relationship. You still have to step up your game and make that new equipment count. You get some serious diminishing returns on the expensive equipment. The cheapest gear that isn't default gear (which is free) will cost you only 50-200 denars more and will greatly augment your battle capability (like having javelins at all) but after that you are just paying increasing amounts of money for slight increases in speed or damage.

Honestly, if anything, I think you should be reimbursed more because as it stands now the only people who will have anything more than the default equipment are the ones who don't need it anyway.

 

[Darkness]

You only run out of money if you insist on having the best stuff all the time.

Why pay 1000 extra denars for the best item when it gives only +5 more armor than the item below it? You have to be wise with your money. Else there is no point. There are cheap options for a reason. Long term higher K ratio, not just a 1 or 2 life K ratio increase.

You shouldnt be given free money just because you decided to get the most luxurious stuff and died. You risked the stuff, so thus you must pay the penalty. I find myself at this point not doing much better with better armor, especially in regular DM (I havent played TDM but once because the server was buggy, although it appears to be fixed, I haven't tried it yet). So I often disregard buying better armor and just worry about weapons. So I often look up and find myself with 10k or more. Whats the point of having money if it is easy to obtain? Why not just give everyone the best equipment all the time for free and say go have fun.

 

[Redfyre]

Because then there would be no variety in the weapons people are wielding that is why.

 

[SockMonkeh]

Aren't you sort of arguing against your point, Darkness? You are saying that you don't buy armor because it's too expensive and then you notice you have tons of money. That's because you aren't buying any armor. If you buy that armor and perform the same you will be losing money.

 

[Darkness]

Aren't you sort of arguing against your point, Darkness? You are saying that you don't buy armor because it's too expensive and then you notice you have tons of money. That's because you aren't buying any armor. If you buy that armor and perform the same you will be losing money.

No, that is just money sense. Why pay for something that doesn't return its value. However, my point is against the reward system formula with death being more valueable than living. Basically, I don't see the sense in a system that would allow you to just blindly run into a fray and die a few times and suddenly be able to get the best gear. You don't deserve that gear, all you did was die. You should have to kill to be able to get gear.

However, I do understand, especially in DM, that you don't often get to kill a lot. And your death is sooner than imminent. So maybe it should be mode dependent or some such thing. Or perhaps even an option to let players vote on the rules or something.

The main point im making irregardless is: It doesnt make any sense to let players run in and die that have no skill or don't care, they just want to collect money. Then after a few deaths suddenly have access to the best gear. Where as players who are actually playing for real, getting better, etc, and thus die less get less of a reward than the person who was just collecting money.

 

[Redfyre]

If the person sucked enough to just die and get the best gear he will continue to suck with the best gear. I don't get your argument? This isn't NPCs we are facing it's players. Whoever parries better or has better skill level will still defeat some newb in a lot of armor.

 

[SockMonkeh]

The suicidal player that you describe will have his gear for one round and then he won't be able to afford it anymore until he dies many more times with the free gear.

I don't think the system is perfect and I don't think it should be quite so dynamic, but I disagree with the point you are trying to make.

 

[Darkness]

The suicidal player that you describe will have his gear for one round and then he won't be able to afford it anymore until he dies many more times with the free gear.

I don't think the system is perfect and I don't think it should be quite so dynamic, but I disagree with the point you are trying to make.

I agree that to some degree we are arguing over minute details. However, for now, you are absolutely right. If one person does this, they will very quickly lose the armor. However, think more long term. What if you are playing a scrim, your team vs another team. The other team just runs to you and dies. They suddenly have the best gear. So now you, with little funds because you get half the funds for not dying as the people who die do are against a team of fully armed guys. One person in full armor isnt much, but a whole team?

If it is that easy to do, when this opens to the public, there are always people who do things the easiest/cheapest way. And I don't believe they should lower my K ratio because they just went in and died against me/my team just to stock up.

And what if money becomes even more useful in the future besides just these few items now? (I admit I am not well read in the warband plans, but...) Who knows entirely the plans and possibilities for Warband. Do you want people who can just die to gain access to these possibilities?

 

[Redfyre]

With the new Battle arena-style. Often the team that wins and works together the most will always maintain the best gear. Because every player has only one life.

 

[SockMonkeh]

In the situation you are describing, where the whole of Team B is suicidal against Team A (let's say it's an 8 on 8 battle), Team A is now up on Team B by 8 kills. Team A has earned 800 denars among them for this. Each player on Team B now has an additional 200 denars. That's not even enough for a new suit of crappy armor. You can't get much with that 200. So they go do it again and now they have a 400 denar bonus. Team A is up by 16 kills. By the time Team B can afford decent armor using this method, Team A has the game in the bag by far.

 

[Darkness]

New findings after playing today (8/19/09):

Findings/bugs?:
(alot of you will probably know what im talking about, so please fill in details i miss)

In a map of vaegirs vs Rhodoks (the greeny map, 1 side has a ranch kinda thing), there was no autobalance or atleast a very very delayed autobalance

Same map, khergit vs nord (CTF mode). The khergits have a sweeping advantage because they are all on horseback and nords cant defend well against them. strategy based, not bug

If you are typing during a map change, the text will be black, basically meaning you cannot see what you are typing until the next map begins.
photo evidence here:

Before and here:

After

Sometimes when a person's horse gets killed and they fall off. They fall through the map and are able to kill people above them while being effectively invisible.

Suggestions:
Have an equipment upgrade option. Because right now if you hit escape then equipment, if you want to upgrade anything you have to buy everything you already have. Makes sense if you are dead, but if you are alive (or in battle mode where if your side wins and you dont die, you shouldnt have to buy your stuff again if you want to upgrade).

During spectate mode, I think it would be nice if you could see either the person's name you are spectating and/or atleast their faction. Especially in battle mode.

 

[daumor]

In the situation you are describing, where the whole of Team B is suicidal against Team A (let's say it's an 8 on 8 battle), Team A is now up on Team B by 8 kills. Team A has earned 800 denars among them for this. Each player on Team B now has an additional 200 denars. That's not even enough for a new suit of crappy armor. You can't get much with that 200. So they go do it again and now they have a 400 denar bonus. Team A is up by 16 kills. By the time Team B can afford decent armor using this method, Team A has the game in the bag by far.

Actually it would be even worse because you get a decent bonus when you tm kills a guy too. like 40% of the enemies cost or some such...

 

[vuk]

I got a big crash while playing that seriously froze up my computer for about 20 minutes. (task manager would not even come up)
Here is the message I got:

 

[comikal]

Suggestions:
-Add a black, semitransparent background to the Esc Menu, it's hard to see how much your gear will cost if you're looking at the clouds.
-Show total encumbrance in the gear menu.

Some keys that a lot of people keep asking about:
T - "all talk", what you type is broadcasted to everyone
Y - "team talk", self-explanatory, and is purplish-blue
X - switch between Melee and Ranged, only works for those weapons
G - drop your current weapon, and if not holding a weapon, drop your shield

Some findings from the past 2 days:
-Using the sheath command gives you an invisible sword. If you only have one weapon, you cannot switch from the invisible sword. The only way to box is to drop all your weapons.
-When you drop your bow, you drop all your arrows and your bow. You can recover arrows from anything but a dead body.

Troops and weapon/horse usage:
Usually, you can use any weapon from your type (Vaegir archer can use Swadian crossbow) and most other weapons. Infantry usually cannot ride horses at all. A couple of recent findings:
-Vaegir archers can use saddle horses. Horse archery is horrible though, but good for confusing people. I don't know if Rhodok/Swadia/Nord ranged can do the same.
-Vaegir horsemen can use crossbows. You can't reload while on a horse though.


I personally feel like the Vaegir archer dagger is quite ineffective. It costs money, has short range and can't block. And Vaegir archers don't get shields. If anything, it should be made the free weapon.

I'll update this post as time goes on I guess.

EDIT: Suggestions of mine.

 

[Ordonator]

One or two small maps, Daegoth.

As for your standard 2Fort or Blood Gulch or what have you, set one up with a couple of these opposing each other: