Experimental: Perisno .77

[gsanders]

Not save game compatible to .76r2 or earlier.
  IS save game compatible to .76r3 test PBOD b

  This is really the last installment of "Perisno" for quite some time.
Feature set:
  Formations replaced with PBOD 92beta

  dynamic dodge - the percent chance to dodge and take but 1 point of damage from an attack is now tied to encumbrance/strength
      from there the athletics adjustment from encumbrance is measured, 2 is added to the score, and this becomes  a value in the
      range of 5 to -4.  For 0 to 5, the effective athletics value is recorded at the start of each battle for heroes, once only for troops
      when creating your character to improve game response, and every 25 seconds in battle for the player.  This is the percent each point
      of "effective" athletics gives to dodge; effective athletics does NOT overwrite native athletics, to prevent an exploit cycle.
      Negative values become a negative ironflesh at 4% added damage per negative dodge.  Thus a horribly encumbered player can
      have up to 20% added damage, from standing absolutely still and allowing opponents to take shots at all their vital joints and tender places.
      As it applies to player and companions, finally, the encumbrance FINALLY matters.  It also allows martial arts style dodges for gi/robe/silk wearing opponents

  enhanced foraging, both near towns and wilderness. 

  a fix to princess marriage calculations, since its only right.  Each princess now regards the player as some sort of dirty earthworm until he/she manages
    to be honestly impressive.  No more easy mode, gents.  There are 126 other women who wait to be seduced if you want "easy".

  the restored Wyvern quest, courtesy of KonykSoldatyk and Leonion.

    I'm going to take a break, maybe make a mod that doesnt have as many freeloaders (which means a change of art, alas) and generally irritate the media as usual.  Look for the Halloween edition, "soon" (tm) in the usual hidden places for the last of Phosphor. 

    patch 2 MB
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4sh7GRykLgEZHdKWWZaNjhMTVU/view?usp=sharing
 
  - GS

 

[Leonion]

  the restored Wyvern quest, courtesy of KonykSoldatyk and Leonion.

Ehmm... wrong credits. I have nothing to do with Wyvern quest.

 

[Reus]

Is sprint removed in this version?

 

[gsanders]

Is sprint removed in this version?

  Rigale sprint Yes
      Silverstag AI sprint  No, but needs some testing
                    Player sprint: Not intended to be removed but I dont see a sprint effect yet. 
                          the stamina bar is turned off for the moment.  I may yet resolve that and turn it on in the future -- that's the only real issue I'm willing to patch this month.  My calendar is incredibly full right now.

  - GS

 

[Reus]

The thing is, the player is able to sprint, and it can be heavily abused, as the player keeps the agility and athletics skill points they receive from using the sprint feature.
Long story short, if I sprint, I'll be able to run that fast forever, in any battle. I've been told it just keeps doubling.

I asked about it in the Dev Chat, and was told it was going to be removed.

 

[gsanders]

The thing is, the player is able to sprint, and it can be heavily abused, as the player keeps the agility and athletics skill points they receive from using the sprint feature.
Long story short, if I sprint, I'll be able to run that fast forever, in any battle. I've been told it just keeps doubling.

I asked about it in the Dev Chat, and was told it was going to be removed.

  That is Rigale sprint and it was removed with 76r2
  Your correspondents seldom update because they wait for Moddb to have updates instead of getting them here.

  Our Lead Dev is slow to get updates out, which makes me in turn reluctant to make updates, since I get no credit but all the diaper changing
    Which is fine but I want to cap the number of diapers I'm responsible for until I have any dev match my output.  I suppose the snarky answer is
if nothing gets changed, nothing needs fixing, but thats actually not true.

 

[GreatAlucard]

Is there any way to limit or reduce the newly added dodge?

I think the more appropriate thing to do would be to put it into a cooldown and disable dodging attacks from behind but I doubt that would be easy to change.

I like the addition but too often some stragglers get completely surrounded and take ages to die because they can just dodge dozens of attacks from all around them (same for units on top of the ladder in sieges).

Not really the case for damage since it happens against a high level player character or on high level units only battle too.

 

[gsanders]

Is there any way to limit or reduce the newly added dodge?

I think the more appropriate thing to do would be to put it into a cooldown and disable dodging attacks from behind but I doubt that would be easy to change.

I like the addition but too often some stragglers get completely surrounded and take ages to die because they can just dodge dozens of attacks from all around them (same for units on top of the ladder in sieges).

Not really the case for damage since it happens against a high level player character or on high level units only battle too.

  The surrounded stragglers that seem to take 20-30-50 hits to die arent actually getting protected by dodge the way you think;
the real issue is knock down not dodge.  Once the warband engine decides an agent is knocked down, it often doesn't bother
to have it stand up.  Next all the attacks pass over the prone hit box, aiming at 120 cm above the ground centered in X-Y coordinates where
the lying down agent is placed.  ALL of those attacks do 0 damage.  Only your attack can avoid this, and the occaisonal "head shot" by ranged troops.

  Instead, dodge actually accelerated these to die, because although you see some messages about something dodging 20-30% of the time,
what happens is these 0 damage attacks are now replaced by an attack that deducts exactly 1 health point from the agent as part of the dodge.
I suppose the NEXT letter you place regarding how over powered dodge is comes from the fact that although dodge has been in place since .75
it seems to take longer for prone things to die, especially ones in super heavy armor.  What happens there is extremely heavy enemies gain 0% dodge but instead the dodge became an anti dodge with negative ironflesh charachteristics -- the base damage is now AMPLIFIED by up to 20%.
But if the hit box is prone then 0 base damage times 120, next divided by 100, rounded down, still does 0.  While before such an overburdened
agent dodges regardless, with 3% per point of athletics being the sole criteria, now the dodge percent is 5 to =4 based on encumbrance/strength,
with the worst cases (less than 0% dodge per athletics point) taking some of the fun out of super heavy armors on super weak troops.  The OP aspect is now
these troops aren't getting the previous DAMAGE ACCELERATION aspect of dodge on prone targets; where you really did get something (1 point) for nothing (0 points base damage vs prone target). 

  I appreciate and am grateful that you believe every last detail on the screen is from my and my alone coding (including anything you find loathsome).
The main distinction from this vs any other mod is the large number of maces and other weapons with knock down in Perisno.  Nearly all other mods have very few maces given to troops, and not ones with knockdown.  The BUG is Warband, which I didn't write.  If they gave better access to the engine internals I'd script something for prone troops, but its not actually dodge that is the issue -- its the broken behavior for knockdown in the Warband engine.  Let's hope BannerLord doesn't have more of the same...

  - GS

EDIT:
  I did find a call [ti_on_agent_knocked_down]  in header_triggers, which isnt the same as a check later on as to who is still knocked down
    this gives me a one time option to do "something", like build a list of agents knocked down so a timer can stand them up, but that is a lot more work than it seems, so it won't happen this weekend.

 

[gsanders]

Patch .77 r01    adds Silverstag options to game settings toggles at camp menu.  Shield Bash is disabled by disabling "combat Enhancements"
                            but this turns off a number of other Silverstag enhancements, such as AI sprint damage and extra damage from falling off (dead) horses.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4sh7GRykLgENVRMOVRDUk5NX3c/view?usp=sharing

 

[GreatAlucard]

Understandable.

I guess that the frequent "he dodges the attack" on the reports leads one to believe that it somehow is the cause.

Thank you for the reply, cheers.

 

[Firerainsdown]

So If I understand this correctly, this is the last patch for Perisno for quite sometime? Even with the semi recent youtube videos from the two other devs working on this mod? Just looking for some clarification or if this is some sort of sarcasm or satire of some type?

 

[gsanders]

So If I understand this correctly, this is the last patch for Perisno for quite sometime? Even with the semi recent youtube videos from the two other devs working on this mod? Just looking for some clarification or if this is some sort of sarcasm or satire of some type?

  The two other devs have expressed 0 interest in working on Perisno .7x series; Robin last worked on Perisno .8 and actually did quite a bit of work in May.
However his strength was ART, not code.  He made a lot of artwork.  Coding was minimal, perhaps 400-500 lines.  I've added perhaps 5000 lines; perhaps 10,000.  It's hard to keep track.  This besides OSP kits from other sources.  In contrast Michadr added perhaps 50 lines in the last year.  Michadr is *capable* of coding, he just never does.  There's always some excuse, but the bottom line is I won't carry the entire project and get little credit for it.  I do like the artwork in Perisno, and the convenience of not having to make my own troop trees.  But at this point I feel like I am a very minor contributor asked to do a very major amount of maintenance, for little recognition.  I may as well make something that has no Perisno content whatsoever under my own name and see if by Christmas it isn't really stronger than Perisno.  I remain the only person willing and able to maintain Perisno in its current state, although perhaps Zeph could rescue it as he did Perisno .75, when he came here for 2 weeks during spring break to make changes. 

  I'll bang out a Halloween edition of Phosphor v21 submod with working Perisno .8 artwork and my own code changes, because *I* can get a lot done in 2 weeks.  I've even given the source code for Phosphor to the Perisno team, although that was a week ago.  I haven't given any changes I made since then; they last had Perisno 76r2.  When I started all of Something Unusual's Perisno .71 source was missing and we had perhaps another 5000 lines to fix from v70.  Of those I honestly did  > 95% of the CODING (not troops definitions) work.  I should also add that SilverFalke added perhaps 2000 lines of troops definitions and code; when I last left he took over the "coding" aspect but he was not much of a coder.  He did however really smooth work for this weapons skills coding, which was remarkable in that it allowed all the factions to have even strength troops in terms of weapons skills, and those skills could be bumped up or down quickly from a dev perspective.

    I've focused on adding many tools to assist devs with tuning troops, especially the viewer adapted from Silverstag, which needed more than a simple cut and paste as Silverstag is a tightly integrated environment that has every sub-section highly dependent on variables set in other sub-sections.  Some of those subsections need WSE installed to work.  In general I consider Silverstag a superior set of code, but it is difficult to carve pieces from without building some firewall of global variables to drive a state machine that supplies each Silverstag layer with the settings Silverstag normally initializes in its 12 or so component layers.  Perisno is instead much simpler to code and initialize.  It's about 2500 pages if printed out, so it would take a beginning coder several weeks just to navigate through it and it took me several months to know WHERE to look for even small changes.  10 minutes to fix a bug, 1 day to find it...
Melanie gave hundreds of changes for female troops and some extremely handy dialog changes as well.

    I've never been able to really stay away from Perisno, but it seems like I'm not happy doing it solo.  I may not be the ideal team player;  I'm often sick, and that makes me grumpy, and I have trouble with short term memory loss so I have to write notes to myself.  My heart is very poor and I cant swallow many foods without choking.  These are small matters.  Mainly I want to change some of the meta-game, but to do that I needed a stable base, and it always seems like there are a hundred little problems to fix before making any of the fixes I came to fix, so the things *I* wanted to do just never got done.  In a way I started over with Rigale this week; it's completely remade.  But it's just a "Phosphor lite", stripped of Perisno artwork and laid open for coding.  Perisno is by now more stable than its ever been; with more options, more detail, more realism than its ever had.  It still has top artwork and probably one of the better artist collectives.  Its handicap has been this last year a dearth of coders.  I made two bugs for every 3 fixes,  and I think most users wondered why we made hundreds of save game wrecking changes.  It was for this reason: I didn't want you to wait even 1 extra day for a better game.  If I thought something was better, I released it.  The Reus method would have been to hold it back 2-3 months and have a team of dedicated testers find bugs, but lacking such dedicated testers I just let the populace tell me what they felt needed attention. I asked to join Perisno exactly 1 year ago.  I actually didn't start on it until November 2014.  I first gave you gender fixes involving nearly a thousand dialogs, strings, and embedded tests of gender from Diplomacy that correctly handled multiple races, something that Native always flips when the number of skins exceeds 2.  I tended to fail on the Princess coding, but I think I did good work for assigning kingdom ladies, especially in small kingdoms where the normal native code would have failed badly.  I think some of my initiatives were clever and others replaced, such as the prisoner locks for selling prisoners at the bartender.  I made some things work and others fail; I eventually fixed most of my early mistakes.  I think Perisno is much improved over how I found it. 

    I just ask other coders to match me, or give me fair credit.  I feel like I am a very small part of the picture, unless something needs fixing, in which case I'm handy.  But you know, a hireling at best.  A mercenary.  Useful for issuing documents when visiting your fief.  I'm all that.

  Anyone could have done the job.  And everyone was welcome to try.  I'm the one that bothered to do it, in however half baked manner it got done.  Doubtless it will be done better and more elegantly the next time.

  - GS

 

[Reus]

Are you saying that you feel you're not getting enough recognition? You've got the Moderator title on this here board, and you constantly keep updated on the Perisno board here, so people using this board, know who you are, and they see what you do for the mod. And I don't know if you've seen it, but Mich was interviewed by Heph just the other day, and he only mentioned two names. You and Zeph. Not Robin, not Silber, not me, but you and Zeph.

I honestly don't see how you can feel you're not getting enough recognition, when, in theory, all you do, is to work on Perisno, Phosphor and Rigale. I think you've gotten quite plenty of recognition, both behind the scenes in the development team, and on here. You're doing a great job, mate.

Now, personally, I don't have much time to dedicate to the mod, seeing as I go to a boarding school, where I obviously live 5 days a week. It's very busy over there, and something is happen all the time. And I serously mean all the time. I'd love to dedicate more time to the mod, and I'd love to dedicate more time to another project I'm working on. I'd love to dedicate more time to the entire TaleWorlds forum itself, as I have the last few years. I just don't have said time to dedicate this year. In Summer I made huge changes to the ModDB page, and just recently I tried my best to help Michadr through some things with the Steam page. Robin has been here since ages. I can tell you, a lot of people deserve recognition, and I guess you and Zeph made the most noticeable changes and updates to the mod recently, and that's why Mich mentioned you as huge contributors in the interview.

 

[gsanders]

Thanks.  That's encouraging to hear.
  I know boarding school is serious stuff.  And I know that Robin *really* poured a lot of work into Perisno .8, and probably has some stuff sitting out of view for winter.  I know that Michadr wasn't ABLE to have time, and so it is hard to criticize that, because it could have been any of us.  Hopefully his life circumstance will change to allow more time with His mod. 

  I shouldn't complain -- if I am the only person changing stuff, recent breaks should therefore only have come from me, making maintenance chores more logically my problem anyway.  Daily answer writing isn't so difficult; I'd be on the board even if I was just a community user.  The fact that I have a reasonably unique insight into Perisno's current code does assist me in finding answers, often times correct answers.  I know Michadr did a HELL of a lot of work the first few years with Perisno.  It did and still does seem like once .70 came out he became depressed with his project and didn't even look in on it until he heard from third party eye witnesses that it in fact no longer had "gay dialog" (which was sort of funny at the time).  He has mostly been with us by his telephone, and quite a few developers on Warbands forum seem to have persistent computer issues and flakey laptops.  (Sword of Damocles' Computica for example).  Michadr is the kindest person I know; he just isn't able to give the code support he might have in him, and that really does hold his growth as a coder back.  A year ago, he was a stronger coder than I was, if at the least that he actually had coded in the last 20 years.  I had not.  When I last coded in 1991-93ish, I wasn't very good and tended to mess up a lot.  The bulletin board system I hacked up and C++ games I re-skinned were all pre-bought, and I took them from a state of working perfectly to working differently and twitchy.  it mostly worked.  I'd say something like that for my early Perisno coding as well.  I think regular practice made me stronger, and I think at one time Michadr was stronger from daily practice as well.  Hopefully he can get into it during Thanksgiving, or Christmas.  I saw Michadr do some good graphics integration; he made a darn good map.  I would hire him, right now today, to make me an equally good map, at a fair rate.  I could easily see Western Union-ing him $75 - $100 for non-commercial use of something like that.  He has plenty of skills that could be used, and he used to do plenty of things that are very difficult to second source.  I've mentioned before to him I could easily see paying $500-1000 licensing fees for non-commercial use of a good magic system, but it looks like I have to make that myself.  I could see licensing aspects of Perisno as well, if it were available on a license basis (hair models, unique mounts, things like this).  I think Perisno has assets that are a unique critical mass.  It shouldn't only be Cozur who spent a few grand on a super hobby - although in his case I suspect the money came from donations, not his early death benefits/life savings.

    I have a good 5 years or so, hopefully twice that, to make the most of what's left of my life.  I plan to make a dent in things, and perhaps change a small part of my world.  I think Michadr already had more success in his short time than I could hope for.  I shouldn't envy his chat with Heph.  When I've done as much, then I can have someone chat me.  Perhaps next year.

  - GS

 

[Michadr]

Expect this version to be out soon. (officially to Moddb, steam etc.) I have some final testing to go over and pending bugs we should get this up.

Cheers.

 

[Leonion]

Expect this version to be out soon. (officially to Moddb, steam etc.) I have some final testing to go over and pending bugs we should get this up.

Cheers.

Hi!
Did you receive a biiiig message *I think* (I didn't check "Save a copy in my outbox" so I'm not completely sure that I did send it and nothing glitched) I sent you 3 weeks ago?

 

[gsanders]

Expect this version to be out soon. (officially to Moddb, steam etc.) I have some final testing to go over and pending bugs we should get this up.

Cheers.

Hi!
Did you receive a biiiig message *I think* (I didn't check "Save a copy in my outbox" so I'm not completely sure that I did send it and nothing glitched) I sent you 3 weeks ago?

  Nothing here so this must have been a private message for Michadr. 
  If there is something needed from development, with the code, you should copy me, as Michadr isn't really the coder but the coordinator this year.
I told him I'd support .77 if needed.

  - GS

 

[Leonion]

Yes, it was a PM.
And it was specifically the message for him as the coordinator, not the coder.

 

[kevinflemming]

The dodge! Oh, the dodge! It's bloody hilarious more than frustrating. I currently have a Mercenary Master Huntress surrounded by my troops and they're all stun-locking her but can't land a hit. Think I'll go and cook some dinner, see if they're done by the time I get back lol.

 

[gsanders]

The dodge! Oh, the dodge! It's bloody hilarious more than frustrating. I currently have a Mercenary Master Huntress surrounded by my troops and they're all stun-locking her but can't land a hit. Think I'll go and cook some dinner, see if they're done by the time I get back lol.

  its actually when she is knocked down they cant find her hit box and miss.  As certain percentage ofg those misses give feedback that she dodged, and she actally suffers 1 point damage.  technically, its ONLY the dodging that is hurting her.  FYI

  the solution is to remove knockdown from all the maces used, and I'll get around to that sometime.

  - GS