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Every infantry movement speed in order (gameplay discussion)

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in the parenthesis is a guess at how taleworlds is organizing movement speed (the classes are not 100% accurate to the section)

(outlier)
  • Berserker -86.67​

(skirmishers)
  • Wildling -86.1​
  • Recruit -86.1​
  • Skirmisher -86.1​
(2-handed)
  • Tribal Warrior -85.05​
  • Guard -85.05​
  • Warrior -85.05​
  • Savage -85.05​
  • Voulgier -85.05​
(heavy inf)
  • Legionary -84​
  • Segeant -84​
  • Oathsworn -84​
  • Spear Infantry -84​
  • Varyag -84​
(unjustifiably slow)
  • Peasant Levy -82​
  • Clan Warrior -82​
  • Menavlion infantry -81​
  • Brigand -81​
  • Rabble -81​

this is assuming you have chosen the perks to be the fastest,

notice how every heavy infantry class has the same movement speed,
this makes for better gameplay because no heavy infantry class from any single faction is faster then any other so you will always be able to catch an opponent given a restricted play space

movement speed is very important to combat and not having the ability to catch an opponent regardless of equipment selection is poor game design

every faction's class should have the option to be the same speed as every other faction's relative class (by taking less armor/equipment)

the concept of having different movement speed for characters regardless of armor/weapons is a bad design because some classes will be at a disadvantage

players should have the option to drop their weapons and become the fastest speed available (relative to armor equipped), having this equal base running speed is essential for fair game play

please consider removing different speeds for characters and only base speed on weight (and weapon carrying awkwardness like running with a large pike or running with a quiver full of arrows)
 
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Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
.... The movement speed is quite irrelevant and once more the American misses something. This is their stat and not final speed as their weight from armour and (equipped) weapon is missing,
 
.... The movement speed is quite irrelevant and once more the American misses something. This is their stat and not final speed as their weight from armour and (equipped) weapon is missing,
sorry if i did not explain what i meant well

i believe that all people should have the same speed when they are not carrying any weapons and have no armor on

there should not be any difference in your character movement compared to anyone else's movement, given the same armor weight/no weapons

i also think that you should deal the same damage, have the same swing speed, same health(given same armor/weapon stats), etc

i believe good competition begins with everyone having a fair chance at the game with no class/character simply being inferior in movement speed, health, or anything else; having different equipment/weapons/armor is fine and that should be the difference in what your movement speed is but the reason for that is just the weight of the armor (or the weapon) that causes it and not some movement penalty on your character itself

if you disagree i would love to hear why(not trying to be rude)
 
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Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
i believe that all people should have the same speed when they are not carrying any weapons and have no armor on
Makes no difference.... The athletics stats are changed to account for the carrying of armor, it's just moving values around really. They changed the speeds of troops because there were too slow with the stuff they were carrying, so they increased or decreased these stats to directly affect the speed instead of messing around with weights.
i also think that you should deal the same damage, have the same swing speed, same health(given same armor/weapon stats), etc
Go to the duel server if you want to fight identical troops against each other, you looking to make this game just as boring as your President?
 
Makes no difference.... The athletics stats are changed to account for the carrying of armor, it's just moving values around really. They changed the speeds of troops because there were too slow with the stuff they were carrying, so they increased or decreased these stats to directly affect the speed instead of messing around with weights.
some classes are just inferior, if you look at the numbers

if the numbers next to the classes are meaningless then i made a mistake bc i haven't tested anything

but i do believe in order to make the class system work you should have relative same speeds like how they have the heavy inf class all have 84 speed with the speed perk

you cannot just force players to play as rabble and peasant and get slaughtered by the other factions tier 1 troops and think that is good gameplay;

i think the class system is fundamentally flawed if, along with premade equipment, the characters themselves have all these different running speeds and different damages (not just their weapons but their ability to wield them for more damage)

i do think that the class system, if able to be edited where you can customize everything and your character fundamental abilities are the same so you cannot just be outrun by any1 else with the same weight load, can work bc it is an easier way to just pick your equipment for beginners

i find it frustrating that rabble and peasants are being outrun by heavy infantry in mail armor,
that shouldn't happen; bannerlord should do what warband did and base movement speed on weight carried

sorry i dont understand what your saying though, are you agreeing with me that heavily armored infantry shouldn't be able to outrun peasants?

Go to the duel server if you want to fight identical troops against each other, you looking to make this game just as boring as your President?
I like differences in weapons/armors/being outnumbered, i just want battle mode to be honest; all this unbalance will become more apparent when we have a 1 life mode and people will try alot harder then in a TDM/Seige mode; i just dont want to be at a unfair disadvantage bc i am not one of the factions/classes with underlining better speed/damage abilities where i couldnt do the same damage even if i picked up their weapon or outrun someone who has heavier armor then me
 
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Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
sorry i dont understand what your saying though, are you agreeing with me that heavily armored infantry shouldn't be able to outrun peasants?
Well they don't.... You just don't understand it and the problem is you don't like the class system not the speeds.
 
Well they don't.... You just don't understand it and the problem is you don't like the class system not the speeds.
i do like what the class system could be, just not what it is now (customizable)
or i just want a class that has no armor and a full coverage shield/spear/short sword (that has the fastest speed if i drop my weapons so i escape when im surrounded by infantry)
or a archer/cavalry class that can run the same speed as infantry based only on the weight i carry (when i drop quivers, which should slow u down so you cannot kite)
i want play the way i want and not be forced into something that isn't exactly what i want to play

but even if peasants can outrun heavy inf; that is an extreme example, there are cases where characters with heavier weight loads are outrunning characters with lighter weight loads
 

ChristopherR

Regular
WBWF&SNW
Great contradiction, did so not expect that!

Also why have factions if you can just have 3 classes which can all choose from the same equipment

Why are you being so hostile towards Jesus? Can you not have a productive conversation without any kind of animosity?
 
Great contradiction, did so not expect that!
i said
"i do like what the class system could be, just not what it is now (customizable)"

the class system could be like the one in call of duty where they have a list of premade classes, but you can edit and save the ones you want
but yea, i guess the class system right now isnt something i prefer
Also why have factions if you can just have 3 classes which can all choose from the same equipment
sorry if you misunderstood, i never said that weapon/armor variety is a bad thing;
just that characters should all have the same abilities such as running speed, combat damage etc (when naked or using the same weapons etc not saying that everyone must be restricted to 1 weapon/armor )

that being said i would have fun if every1 had one class and you could choose any piece of equipment/mount (or hopefully one day a samurai multiplayer bannerlord mod will come out)

i have the most fun in the mount and blade series when i fight someone with a melee weapon without a shield and they dont have a shield either, it makes every strike more interesting compared to shield blocking (the four directional blocking system makes this game great)

in napoleon most of the infantry fights were fought with bayonets and i found those very enjoyable bc nobody had a shield/ every1 had the same fighting capability (running speed, swing damage etc)
 
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Kripaz

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Three classes where you could choose your equipment depending what class you picked.
Damn that would sound like a perfect idea. Wonder why nobody has picked that idea.
 
Three classes where you could choose your equipment depending what class you picked.
Damn that would sound like a perfect idea. Wonder why nobody has picked that idea.
i assume you mean warband's system?
warband's archers/cav had a foot movement speed penalty
they put a movement penalty on archers after the beta happened and people hated how much archers could kite you

a solution to kiting is putting to movement penalty on the bow/quiver instead of the character so that archers could still move properly once they lose their ranged ability by dropping the quiver

not sure why cavalry got a movement speed reduction (maybe just to punish them for not being infantry?)

in competitive games player would switch weapons anyways (infantry would drop shields to archers)

i think having the 3 classes separate is unneccesary

what reason shouldn't every1 have the ability to chose whatever equipment they want?(as long as they have the gold to buy it/ or space)

i heard people argue that every1 would just play the 1 meta class ( lancer/horse archer 2 handed weapon or something)
but i disagree that would happen; an example of the variety of the play styles people still had was in the warband rpg mod where it was just a battle mode but you could edit your class entirely through a website

but i agree warband's system is alot better then bannerlords in my opinion
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
Dense.

What you propose is nothing like a class system as we currently know it so proposing changes which cannot be done without removing the class system is idiotic.

Jesus: I dont like the class systems
Devs: Well, it's here to stay
Jesus: How about we introduce an armour selection option!
Devs: Sigh

You do proud to your nation by appearing just as dense as the rest.
 

Kripaz

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
i assume you mean warband's system?
That was the joke...

what reason shouldn't every1 have the ability to chose whatever equipment they want?(as long as they have the gold to buy it/ or space)
Class system is good in practice. The problem is that in Bannerlord it is too limited.
i heard people argue that every1 would just play the 1 meta class ( lancer/horse archer 2 handed weapon or something)
That's just a fact. Or at least, it would evolve to that later in the match
 
Dense.

What you propose is nothing like a class system as we currently know it so proposing changes which cannot be done without removing the class system is idiotic.

Jesus: I dont like the class systems
Devs: Well, it's here to stay
Jesus: How about we introduce an armour selection option!
Devs: Sigh

You do proud to your nation by appearing just as dense as the rest.
yea your probably right i dont think they will change the system this far into developement

because of this im sure a modded bannerlord with warband type equipment selection will be popular

you ok? we you can pm me if your having problems btw(sorry i frustrated you)
That was the joke...


Class system is good in practice. The problem is that in Bannerlord it is too limited.

That's just a fact. Or at least, it would evolve to that later in the match
i dont see how the restriction is a good thing though?
do you really fear every1 doing some meta game class that would make the game unfun?

and if it did happen maybe it could be nerfed?

what is the worst situation that you can imagine? (im not saying your wrong im just curious)
if every1 starts choosing archer then you can improve how effective armor is against them
if every1 starts choosing cav you can probably try adjusting the hit points of the horse

i think a limited gold supply would limit u into naturally choosing a self imposed class: expensive armor, alot of arrows for your bow, or a horse
a proper gold supply would make sure you couldn't have all 3

i think there will exists a natural balance; but i could be wrong i just hope people are open minded enough to try it once before just assuming it wont work
 

Kripaz

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
do you really fear every1 doing some meta game class that would make the game unfun?
Yes
what is the worst situation that you can imagine? (im not saying your wrong im just curious)
if every1 starts choosing archer then you can improve how effective armor is against them
if every1 starts choosing cav you can probably try adjusting the hit points of the horse
It would make deaths even less meaningful when any class can replace any dead player by picking up his equipment and play as multi-class. The multi-class is the key point here. It makes pre choices less meaningful and all players would evolve into Heavy inf/archer or lancer/archer or heavy inf becomes cavalry upon defeating enemy team on first spawn. It already makes it extra hard for the team that lost the first fight to make a comeback. Also it devalues players that have specialized in specific class, when everybody is supposed to be able play all current classes.

You have to disable equipment pick up from the ground to make this idea to work. Otherwise game would become extremely chaotic and I haven't even mentioned casual modes.
 
It would make deaths even less meaningful when any class can replace any dead player by picking up his equipment and play as multi-class. The multi-class is the key point here. It makes pre choices less meaningful and all players would evolve into Heavy inf/archer or lancer/archer or heavy inf becomes cavalry upon defeating enemy team on first spawn. It already makes it extra hard for the team that lost the first fight to make a comeback. Also it devalues players that have specialized in specific class, when everybody is supposed to be able play all current classes.

You have to disable equipment pick up from the ground to make this idea to work. Otherwise game would become extremely chaotic and I haven't even mentioned casual modes.
i am mostly thinking of battle mode bc that is the one i want to play

for skirmish idk that mode always frustrated me bc i was bad at it, i could never figure out how to survive as an infantry player who plays solo against a full squad of 6 good players

i feel like the only way for a solo player to beat 6 players is for a player to be able to play every role on the battle field without the penalties of using the bow/mount of the other classes

i have to be cavalry first and take out theirs, then be an archer, then finally deal with the infantry

to be able to compete fairly with archer and cavalry i would need to not have the speed penalty of infantry using a mount and not have the accuracy penalty (and damage?) for using a bow as infantry

if you are a team player i get you wanting these changes to be permanent bc it makes you more important on the battlefield but for a solo player like me i have to adapt to survive and i simply cannot do that with all these penalties restricting me

thank you for responding though, i guess we just want 2 different games and the developers are trying to make the game more easy for new players so artificially boosting a player's performance in the relative class that they choose (relative to the other classes) helps retain new players (maybe i dont know but it seems like the majority of people believe that infantry shouldnt ride horses/shoot bows like it was for the majority of those weapons in warband)

i simply will never get that philosophy, i want to have an equal opportunity to compete across all the areas of combat without handicap, not only for myself but also for others

its a shame when i dismount a cavalry man just for him to stand still and wait for the mob of heavy infantry to come kill him even though he is lightly armored and should logically be able to outrun such heavily armored troops but he cannot because the game developers believe all cavalrymen, irrelevant of their armor weight, should move extremely slow

but some people like that i guess, makes for easier kills and that is what people want,

thanks for responding (not trying to say your way is wrong)
 
i feel like the only way for a solo player to beat 6 players is for a player to be able to play every role on the battle field without the penalties of using the bow/mount of the other classes

i have to be cavalry first and take out theirs, then be an archer, then finally deal with the infantry

to be able to compete fairly with archer and cavalry i would need to not have the speed penalty of infantry using a mount and not have the accuracy penalty (and damage?) for using a bow as infantry

if you are a team player i get you wanting these changes to be permanent bc it makes you more important on the battlefield but for a solo player like me i have to adapt to survive and i simply cannot do that with all these penalties restricting me
If you are playing in a team mode and identify as a solo player you must notice this is flawed, team players must adapt to survive too. One of the best skills you could have is bringing your team together emotionally because lets face it, most player can only offer 1 player's worth of troops along with a bit of captain pressure, maybe a bit of kiting. Where as top players can end rounds in surprising upsets. This is the same thing as other competitive games, you must play a very good game to carry a team of newbies for example but you must win to gain 1 mmr and if you lose even with unfavorable odds you lose 16 mmr, imagine that with random teammates. Ranked would not fix toxicity..anyway I digress
its a shame when i dismount a cavalry man just for him to stand still and wait for the mob of heavy infantry to come kill him even though he is lightly armored and should logically be able to outrun such heavily armored troops but he cannot because the game developers believe all cavalrymen, irrelevant of their armor weight, should move extremely slow

but some people like that i guess, makes for easier kills and that is what people want,

thanks for responding (not trying to say your way is wrong)
A cavalry's strength is his horse. Your basically playing that horse as a unit too and a slow cav makes sense; they spend their time riding horses why would they be proficient at running in armor?
sorry if i did not explain what i meant well

i believe that all people should have the same speed when they are not carrying any weapons and have no armor on

there should not be any difference in your character movement compared to anyone else's movement, given the same armor weight/no weapons

i also think that you should deal the same damage, have the same swing speed, same health(given same armor/weapon stats), etc

i believe good competition begins with everyone having a fair chance at the game with no class/character simply being inferior in movement speed, health, or anything else; having different equipment/weapons/armor is fine and that should be the difference in what your movement speed is but the reason for that is just the weight of the armor (or the weapon) that causes it and not some movement penalty on your character itself

if you disagree i would love to hear why(not trying to be rude)
I love competitive games, smash bros, mount and blade, was great at rocket league. I feel for you, this is how I view MMORPGs, someone in world of warcraft has to grind out levels to be competitive like Im sure if I wanted to do high level raids I'd need lots of time doing mindless grinding whereas I view a game like rocket league as completely open to play right from the gate, same cars same speed same everything. Bannerlord is basically a fair battlefield but I enjoy the flavor it brings because it feels pretty well balanced, between the factions there are different strengths that may instantly decide your perk choice, like Ill almost always bring a spear/shield against khuzait, a shield against battania, or swords against aserai. I admit I haven't played anyone that made me feel like they were a spacing mastermind but speed doesnt feel overpowered, I can one shot berserker with an axe too.

The rule of thumb for balancing is not to dumb down the game by nerfing everyone to the same level but by buffing everyone to a same level, buffs usually open more dynamic options/tactics compared to nerfs closing options/tactics.

Never played warband but I like this system, it made it easy to know what my unit is good at when I started playing, along with a bit of unit customization. They used to have a problem with one perk being way better than all the others but its moving away from that and into a system with an actual bit of specialization from the perks. And when a match begins one of the tactics is to compare troop types and execute a plan, if they didn't want you to know your opponents troop count and type they wouldn't show the exact numbers in the tab menu. It is a bit painful if you really wanted to use a certain weapon and your faction doesn't have access to it but it comes down to playing the faction your dealt.
in competitive games player would switch weapons anyways (infantry would drop shields to archers)
The equipment choices in perks are how they're trying to spice up the game. It allows them to make the balances the way they want, like hunters have shield but not archer militia.
i find it frustrating that rabble and peasants are being outrun by heavy infantry in mail armor,
that shouldn't happen; bannerlord should do what warband did and base movement speed on weight carried
Rabble 1v1ing a heavy I'd bet the rabble would win 60%, peasants do feel a bit weak and peasant 1v1 a heavy would lose most of the time. Tribal warriors that just received an over-buff imo would win in 1v1 heavy almost every time. Another thing is I would have used the data without speed buffs because not every class gets a speed perk, you can do a whole tangent about weather the speed perk helped you more than another perk could have. example: faster unit gets to enemy first but rest of army is catching up.

do you really fear every1 doing some meta game class that would make the game unfun?

and if it did happen maybe it could be nerfed?
Yes.

The units all feel like they fill a role, maybe some do their jobs better than others based on their equipment or numbers but the balances feel like they are going in the right direction. Buffs are better than nerfs. Sorry if I was long winded but wanted to share my thoughts, enjoy
 
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